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Thread started 06 Oct 2016 (Thursday) 05:04
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5DIII vs 5DIV for weddings - what is the verdict now?

 
xseven
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Oct 06, 2016 05:04 |  #1

Hi!

I am jumping from crop to full frame ... and I will buy a 5DIV. I will sell my 7D mark II and I will keep only my 100 macro and 70-200 2.8 II.

The budget is (just) enough to get 2 mark IV's and a 24-70 2.8 mk II at a "projected-in-my-mind discount" during Black Friday

The question is ... the second body ... would it be "wiser" to get a 5DIII and invest the difference in a 16-35 f4 or should I stay with 2 mark IV's?

Are there any definite benefits of mark IV vs mark III? (in wedding scenarios)

Thank you for your opinion! :)




  
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Post edited over 3 years ago by frugivore. (2 edits in all)
     
Oct 06, 2016 06:47 |  #2

I'm using two 5D3s right now and they are perfectly sufficient for wedding photography.

I haven't given much thought to upgrading. I'll probably upgrade a lens or two before I upgrade cameras. But what would I get by buying 5D4s? Let's see...

  • +8 mega pixels (22 is already enough)
  • Vertically expanded AF points (i would find this useful)
  • DPAF (I do video too so this would be a great help)
  • New auto exposure system (not sure about this one - I'd like to see a comparison)
  • +1 fps (meh... OK, that is a 17% increase but 6 is enough. I usually shoot in continuous quiet mode anyhow.)
  • 4K video, 1080p60 (good, but I don't do enough video yet to need this)
  • Touch screen (nice to have but I hardly use it on my 70D)
  • Wi-Fi/GPS/NFC (I can't see needing this for weddings)


I really don't find anything compelling enough to make me upgrade. I'd rather take the $4000 that it would cost to get 5D4s and upgrade my 200L instead.



  
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Oct 06, 2016 09:29 |  #3

I'm currently working my Mark IV into my wedding workflow.

The Mark III will continue to be one of the best event cameras ever made.

That being said, the Mark IV is proving to be insane in the auto focus department. And during events, it's all about speed and accuracy to capture those fleeting moments.

The only negative thing I can say about the IV is I find I need about 1/3 stop faster shutter speeds than normal because of the higher megapixel sensor.

Hope this helps!


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Oct 06, 2016 09:38 |  #4

xseven wrote in post #18149637 (external link)
Hi!

I am jumping from crop to full frame ... and I will buy a 5DIV. I will sell my 7D mark II and I will keep only my 100 macro and 70-200 2.8 II.

The budget is (just) enough to get 2 mark IV's and a 24-70 2.8 mk II at a "projected-in-my-mind discount" during Black Friday

The question is ... the second body ... would it be "wiser" to get a 5DIII and invest the difference in a 16-35 f4 or should I stay with 2 mark IV's?

Are there any definite benefits of mark IV vs mark III? (in wedding scenarios)

Thank you for your opinion! :)

Hrm,

I wonder if it would make more sense, as a business move, to simply use the budget of a single 5DIV and get two 5D3's instead with the 24-70 II 7 70-200 II and save the other money that you didn't spend for later, when you get more into the system and get more into weddings or other event photography and see what else you end up needing. I would keep some of that budget for lighting. Spending $8k to go from APS-C to a full frame setup isn't worth it likely from a business stand point, you have to make up that cost very quickly for it to start providing income and not just be debt pay off, right?

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Trvlr323
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Oct 06, 2016 10:02 |  #5

frugivore wrote in post #18149671 (external link)
I'm using two 5D3s right now and they are perfectly sufficient for wedding photography.

I haven't given much thought to upgrading. I'll probably upgrade a lens or two before I upgrade cameras. But what would I get by buying 5D4s? Let's see...

  • +8 mega pixels (22 is already enough)
  • Vertically expanded AF points (i would find this useful)
  • DPAF (I do video too so this would be a great help)
  • New auto exposure system (not sure about this one - I'd like to see a comparison)
  • +1 fps (meh... OK, that is a 17% increase but 6 is enough. I usually shoot in continuous quiet mode anyhow.)
  • 4K video, 1080p60 (good, but I don't do enough video yet to need this)
  • Touch screen (nice to have but I hardly use it on my 70D)
  • Wi-Fi/GPS/NFC (I can't see needing this for weddings)


I really don't find anything compelling enough to make me upgrade. I'd rather take the $4000 that it would cost to get 5D4s and upgrade my 200L instead.

I've been using the 5D4 for a couple of weeks. The new auto exposure system is actually quite improved. I don't know how they did it but the AF system has seen a huge jump both in terms of speed and accuracy. Your list excludes the enhancements made in ISO performance and dynamic range. I never really had an issue with either on the 5D3 but I would say the ISO is about 2/3 - 1 stop improved and the difference in DR is probably the most improved of all features. There are a few push tests floating around the forum. It is impressive. There is also the advanced firmware/customization features that can't be ignored either. Because of the crippled auto ISO/minimum shutter speed features and the lack of EC in M I never really used the 5D3 as a sports/wildlife camera. 5D4? Problem solved. I can't see why these features wouldn't be a benefit to wedding photogs as well. It is definitely a worthy upgrade.


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xseven
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Oct 06, 2016 12:34 |  #6

I am already having quite a few weddings ahead (hence the need to "upgrade" - renting is too much trouble to do it all the time).
I have all the lighting I need already ...
I want the wireless to be "included" for my style of shooting so I would not have to deal with cables anymore ... so one mark IV will be on the list.




  
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umphotography
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Oct 10, 2016 08:57 |  #7

I will start off by saying I have the 1Dx2. Use it now as my primary wedding camera. The Camera is simply remarkable and the ability of the camera to perform and lock in low light is unsurpassed.

I also have owned 3 5D3's and Have a lower count 5D3 and a 7D2 that we use for cameras at our weddings. The 5D3 is a very very capable camera. But I always cringed when I needed to be above 6400 ISO. And the 5D3 tends to miss and hunt a tad off the center point in low light. The 7D2 I always put away when we need to be above 4000 ISO

For wedding photographers- NOT all the time but MANY times throught the course of a day, we are shooting in dark conditions and clean usable ISO is a must have.

The darks and shadow performance on this new sensors technology has been greatly improved. The AF system on the 1Dx2 has been greatly imporoved especially with servo use. It does not miss. Im told the AF in the 5D4 is also a step up over the 5D3

So which is it ? 5D3 or 5D4.......Both will do the trick.....5D4 will give you more tools to use in dark situations. 12800 iso is usable. Probably 25000 ISo in a pinch.

Look. Light at 25000 ISO is going to be crapola light in the majority of situations and you are probably going to convert most of that use to B&W for files. But I am finding with my 1Dx2 that I can set my parameters at 16000 iSO and let auto ISO do it thing and I dont have to worry about things and can concentrate on whats going on and can capture stuff i cant with the 5D3 in poor light situations. I also have a camera thats going to lock anytime I want to get a shot.

So if the 5D4 can perform anything close to what the 1Dx2 can do, then I would lean heavily to the 5D4 over the 5D3.

Both are going to do the job. 5D4 is going to do it better and let you do more in low light

When my 5D3 gets to the point where I need to replace it, I would have zero hesitation changing the body to the 5D4

The new sensor technology is now a body that you can use for 6-7 yrs until we see where sensor technology goes. I mean, HOW MUCH ISO do you really need. I think we are there. Light when it is that dark is poor quality light in 90% of the cases and at some point you will need to supplement to make it usable for professional use

5D4 is going to be a better tool for most wedding photographers. Video lights and ability to supplement with flashes at much lower outputs are going to give you better creative tools

I choose the 1Dx2. I plan on keeping that body for 6-7 yrs or wear it out which ever comes first :p. But If I had a higher count 5D3, I would not hesitate to upgrade to a 5D4

Hope this helps. This is what I would do when evaluating which way to go.


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Neilyb
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Oct 10, 2016 09:30 |  #8

I have to say the 5Dmk4 has failed to impress me with "low light" focus. By low light I mean ISO2500 at 1/250sec, f4. Practically daylight for many wedding photographers stuck in a dark church. Which is why I am alarmed that any point above and below the center struggled in overcast conditions. I need to test further and the shop I bought it from is also interested in the problem. I know categorically that my 1Dx would have nailed focus in those conditions, I have shot that beast upto ISO12800 at 1/100 sec to try and wiggle out some wildlife shots I did not get. Never failed.

I could be alone on this but it is not 1Dx level AF.

https://photography-on-the.net …showthread.php?​p=18150644 I tried spot AF and single point and single point plus four but the camera would not grab those nuts or any of the moss (plenty of texture and contrast to focus on IMO).

The sequence I took of a squirrel I need to check, from 10 or 12 shots of a sitting squirrel there are a handful "sharp", some however are motion blurred due to the SS. Will post some to the thread above.


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Post edited over 3 years ago by TeamSpeed. (2 edits in all)
     
Oct 10, 2016 09:53 as a reply to  @ Neilyb's post |  #9

For the moss shot, what lens? Also one shot or AI servo? Finally, you weren't so close that you might be battling MFD? I didn't see any EXIF data, so I have to ask. Assuming it was either the 200-400 or 500...

I would try other testing, I wouldn't base any decisions on that particular scene personally. Birds, animals, etc with fast enough shutter speeds, like 1/640 or more would be better subject material for validating the AF system, IMO. Is there a way to get another copy and try it out?


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Oct 10, 2016 09:54 |  #10

After reading many posts, I have not heard anyone say the 5DIII is a better camera than the 5DIV.
I am however, a "skip a generation guy". Seldom are the improvements worth an upgrade to me.

Having said that, when I was working I always had the best tools available.


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Oct 10, 2016 09:56 as a reply to  @ Tapeman's post |  #11

However with a new sensor design, the skip-a-generation may not always hold true. :)

Depends on what you shoot, and what your current deficiencies are...

http://www.techradar.c​om …1-key-differences-1327056 (external link)


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Oct 10, 2016 10:47 |  #12

I went 1Dx2

a few reasons

Build
Weather sealing

Biggest reasons

AF is unsurpassed in the industry. NOTHING will touch the 1Dx2. It does not miss once set up properly for your needs

Hindsight of course....But I love the 20 MP files. Dont want to deal with bigger files

Last decision maker for me and it was a big one. 1Dx2 has a 400K shutter life and 5D4 is a 200K.......so for me...It was 2 5D4's to get to 400 or a 1Dx2.... $$$$ money was about the same. I have already worn out 2 5D3's. When you get to 140-160K shutter life you have to sell it for peanuts anyway. I like having one body v/s 2. for the past 3 yrs I have been dragging around 2-3 bodies. Now I use a vest and switch around 1 body and the 35/50/85 are in my vest pockets...just as easy to switch as it is grabbing another camera.

Just too many little things and a much better AF system that made the 1Dx2 a more appealing buy to me......It was 2 5D4's at the update or a 1Dx2 and keep a lower count body as a back up......Thats the way I went. Especially when Canon lowered the price from last update. 1Dx1 originally went for $6499.00.......canon left it at the $5999.00 price point. No brainer to me.

1Dx2 is the best camera I have ever used. And I am willing to bet I would feel the same way about 2 5D4's if i went that direction......Happy with my decision....other will decide differently

But make no mistake about it. This update is a game changer for canon shooters. 5D4 and 1Dx2 are on par with the sony sensor technology that Sony and Nikon have ran down our throats for the past 2 yrs.

usable 12800 ISO is a big flipping deal in my humble opinion. 12800 and 25000 ISO is a bug big deal if the file can be used......Right now...a 5D3 is useless at 25000 iso and in my opinion NOT usable for my professional needs at 12800 ISO

I would update in a heartbeat if i were buying a camera and did not have this 1Dx2


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Oct 10, 2016 14:56 |  #13

Why don't you get 2 Nikon D750's??.Two D750's will cost you $3600-two Canon 5dMKIV's will cost you $7000 right now and you can sell your lenses and have a really awesome setup that's just as good or better IQ that the Canon setup?Unless of course you don't like Nikon then it's a moot point.


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Oct 10, 2016 15:02 |  #14

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18153111 (external link)
For the moss shot, what lens? Also one shot or AI servo? Finally, you weren't so close that you might be battling MFD? I didn't see any EXIF data, so I have to ask. Assuming it was either the 200-400 or 500...

I would try other testing, I wouldn't base any decisions on that particular scene personally. Birds, animals, etc with fast enough shutter speeds, like 1/640 or more would be better subject material for validating the AF system, IMO. Is there a way to get another copy and try it out?


The shot directly under the moss shot is the front of the grave stone, a good 6 inches closer to me than the moss. I had been trying to shoot squirrels, this fellow was sitting with his nut. I took 18 shots. 10 are OOF. 5 are soft due to motion (you can tell by the path of the blur) as I was shooting 1/250 and their cheeks move alot. Centre point was used, spot, right on the eye which has a nice constrasty highlight (I cannot prove it as I did not yet install DPP but the point is shown on camera). I was using IS on a monopod, not perfect testing conditions but stable enough and I shoot this way quite often. I can only compare to experiences under similar situations using the 1Dx, and normally I have to delete perfectly sharp photos.

Which is when I figured maybe the squirrel is too dark/contrastless and tried the brighter nuts on the moss. It would not focus on them, hunted and eventually did with centre point, not those away from centre. I shoot AI Servo because they do move their heads minutely even when still. I tried faster and slower responsiveness. Accel/Deccel set to 0.

First time it happened was whilst waiting for a crow to land. I was focusing around to see how fast it locked, when I tried to focus around the red square area my 200-400 hunted and hunted. Eventually started to judder continuously. Wish I had made a video of that happeneing now.

I am trying to convinced the shop that this is not correct, they want to see pictures.

What I am seeing however is that shots at ISO3200 are pretty clean and the noise is soon cleaned up. Overall it is a body I bought mainly for the low ISO landscapes to make use of DR. But I could buy a Sony for that and I wanted a body that could handle wildlife and low light to a point.


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Oct 11, 2016 04:04 |  #15

Neilyb wrote in post #18153363 (external link)
The shot directly under the moss shot is the front of the grave stone, a good 6 inches closer to me than the moss. I had been trying to shoot squirrels, this fellow was sitting with his nut. I took 18 shots. 10 are OOF. 5 are soft due to motion (you can tell by the path of the blur) as I was shooting 1/250 and their cheeks move alot. Centre point was used, spot, right on the eye which has a nice constrasty highlight (I cannot prove it as I did not yet install DPP but the point is shown on camera). I was using IS on a monopod, not perfect testing conditions but stable enough and I shoot this way quite often. I can only compare to experiences under similar situations using the 1Dx, and normally I have to delete perfectly sharp photos.

Which is when I figured maybe the squirrel is too dark/contrastless and tried the brighter nuts on the moss. It would not focus on them, hunted and eventually did with centre point, not those away from centre. I shoot AI Servo because they do move their heads minutely even when still. I tried faster and slower responsiveness. Accel/Deccel set to 0.

First time it happened was whilst waiting for a crow to land. I was focusing around to see how fast it locked, when I tried to focus around the red square area my 200-400 hunted and hunted. Eventually started to judder continuously. Wish I had made a video of that happeneing now.

I am trying to convinced the shop that this is not correct, they want to see pictures.

What I am seeing however is that shots at ISO3200 are pretty clean and the noise is soon cleaned up. Overall it is a body I bought mainly for the low ISO landscapes to make use of DR. But I could buy a Sony for that and I wanted a body that could handle wildlife and low light to a point.

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Yet after all that I put my 100-400 (mk1) and TC on the 5D last night in the living room with a single light on and it focussed with all points (I like that so many points are available) no problems! :|


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