Best modifier for group shot.

I'm thinking of upgrading my 60 inch shoot through umbrella to the Softlighter II 60inch. Anyone have a better idea? I also impact have a clone of it. Anyone have any experience with it?

I bounce into an 84" PLM umbrella with diffusion cover for larger groups if I have the room to set it up. Otherwise, I'll use two smaller umbrellas. They're so easy to set up and connect to my Einstein mono lights. I'm not sure what kind of lights you have. Or how big your groups are.

I use bowl reflectors, or bare bulb.

Knowing the size of the group would help give accurate answers.

But for large groups I'm with alveric.

Alveric wrote in post #18151107
I use bowl reflectors, or bare bulb.

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18151137
Knowing the size of the group would help give accurate answers.

But for large groups I'm with alveric.

Really? The larger the group, the larger my light source. Here's an example with the small umbrella (would've used the bigger one if I could):

You can also see how uneven the lighting is, with the people on the right being hotter than the people on the left.

That's why I stopped fiddling with brollies for group shots. Hard light not only gives me more versatility and power, but crisper photos as the contrast is punchy right off the bat –little post processing is needed.

Now, to be honest, I tend to 'cheat', as in bouncing the light off ceilings and white walls: again, this is more easily accomplished with bowl reflectors.

frugivore wrote in post #18151140
Really? The larger the group, the larger my light source. Here's an example with the small umbrella (would've used the bigger one if I could):

Hosted photo: posted by frugivore in
./showthread.php?p=181​51140&i=i246517181
forum: Flash and Studio Lighting

For a group like this you would have needed at least two umbrellas....

Alveric wrote in post #18151145
You can also see how uneven the lighting is, with the people on the right being hotter than the people on the left.

That's why I stopped fiddling with brollies for group shots. Hard light not only gives me more versatility and power, but crisper photos as the contrast is punchy right off the bat –little post processing is needed.

Now, to be honest, I tend to 'cheat', as in bouncing the light off ceilings and white walls: again, this is more easily accomplished with bowl reflectors.

If there is room, I move the light so that the angle is not as great and the group is more evenly lit. In this case, my light stand was millimeters from the top of the steps. But I just apply a linear gradient filter in PS and get the whole group more evenly lit.

But I'm curious, assuming you can't bounce (I regularly bounce with a bowl reflector indoors) - where do you place a bare bulb light? And is it flattering light?

vk2gwk wrote in post #18151172
For a group like this you would have needed at least two umbrellas....

Agreed! Or a bigger modifier, like my 84" PLM if possible. If I have room, I place two umbrellas a bit further back, each lighting half the group on an angle. So I'm not sure why someone would use a smaller modifier.

frugivore wrote in post #18151140
Really? The larger the group, the larger my light source. Here's an example with the small umbrella (would've used the bigger one if I could):

Hosted photo: posted by frugivore in
./showthread.php?p=181​51140&i=i246517181
forum: Flash and Studio Lighting

That's not a large group.

Bit there are also at least a few people in the shadow of others.

level5photog wrote in post #18151022
I'm thinking of upgrading my 60 inch shoot through umbrella to the Softlighter II 60inch. Anyone have a better idea? I also impact have a clone of it. Anyone have any experience with it?

Define the group.
Define the location/environment.
Define your lights.

When I'm using large modifiers for group, I like to reflect off the modifier, not shoot through (shoot through has a hotter spot typically).

But for a really big group, I just use bare speed lights and spread them out, lots of them, as I have several 560 III's and I'd rather just set them up and position them to light everyone. I just adjust them as fill or near key light, when blending into ambient outside. If indoors, I just go key level exposure. I prefer this for big groups to not fuss with uneven light from modifiers not covering everyone due to not having enough sources and size for a large group.

Very best,

frugivore wrote in post #18151194
If there is room, I move the light so that the angle is not as great and the group is more evenly lit. In this case, my light stand was millimeters from the top of the steps. But I just apply a linear gradient filter in PS and get the whole group more evenly lit.

But I'm curious, assuming you can't bounce (I regularly bounce with a bowl reflector indoors) - where do you place a bare bulb light? And is it flattering light?

Agreed! Or a bigger modifier, like my 84" PLM if possible. If I have room, I place two umbrellas a bit further back, each lighting half the group on an angle. So I'm not sure why someone would use a smaller modifier.

You know, we have to get the misconception out of our minds that the only flattering light is the 'ethereal', soft, wrapping, almost shadowless light that's used for fashion work. Unless all your subjects are old women terrified of having their wrinkles shew, this is simply not the case. Heck, even in lots of fashion images they're using hard light. (Plus, fashion models get their skin retouched to unrealistic extents in post.)

I also have a Softlighter, both of them actually –the 45" and the 60' with their respective socks–, and I seldom use them, and when I do they're mostly used for fill light.

As Malveaux implied with his 'define x': your lighting must be determined by subject, location, mood, and size of the group. The last variable determines in many cases what you use, whether it's 'flattering' or not.

With large groups (anything over 5-7 people actually), only pixel peepers will care if the lighting brought out their pimples or crow feet.

Here are some examples.

In this one I 'cheated' (i.e. I bounced the light, as you can see in the BTS shot):

Photo from Alveric's gallery.
Image hosted by forum (791270)

MalVeauX wrote in post #18151221
Define the group.
Define the location/environment.
Define your lights.

When I'm using large modifiers for group, I like to reflect off the modifier, not shoot through (shoot through has a hotter spot typically).

But for a really big group, I just use bare speed lights and spread them out, lots of them, as I have several 560 III's and I'd rather just set them up and position them to light everyone. I just adjust them as fill or near key light, when blending into ambient outside. If indoors, I just go key level exposure. I prefer this for big groups to not fuss with uneven light from modifiers not covering everyone due to not having enough sources and size for a large group.

Very best,

Large group 15-20 people max. Most group are around 5-6 people. I have been using a 60 inch shoot through umbrella over my head. It's going to be power by 600 Watt Godox AD600. Location will be at church or some indoor reception venue.

Alveric wrote in post #18151280
You know, we have to get the misconception out of our minds that the only flattering light is the 'ethereal', soft, wrapping, almost shadowless light that's used for fashion work. Unless all your subjects are old women terrified of having their wrinkles shew, this is simply not the case. Heck, even in lots of fashion images they're using hard light. (Plus, fashion models get their skin retouched to unrealistic extents in post.)

Definitely not shadowless, but a more gradual decrease in brightness across the face. I consider this ideal in portraits because it's what gives an object on a 2D surface the illusion of having mass and being real. I don't care about their wrinkles or pimples. I care that their head's shape is not being conveyed properly due to flat light.

I've taken group photos with both point light source and with wrapping light. I always prefer the wrapping light for portraits. Again, it is one of the techniques that create depth perception.

Here are some examples.

In this one I 'cheated' (i.e. I bounced the light, as you can see in the BTS shot):

BTS:

Gallery photo (hosted):
posted by Alveric originally in forum: Flash and Studio Lighting

This is great! You're creating a larger wrapping light source. And I like the result.

On this one I used a 12" bowl reflector aimed directly at the subjects:

Hard light works wonders for men, as it gives them more character (the demographics question again).

I'm not sure how you define 'character' but again, I'd prefer a more gradual brightness decrease across the face that a bigger umbrella would've given. I can relate to wanting to convey a harsh look for a person, but this scenario - as with most formal portraits - doesn't seem to align to the hard lighting.

And on this one, I tried using umbrellas, but they simply did not spread the light evenly enough and were sucking too many Joules of power whilst giving me unsatisfactory results; so I used bowl reflectors again –aimed directly at the group as there were no white surfaces to bounce light off of:

As for parabolic umbrellas... yeah, I've been there before. Larger is softer and covers more area, right?? WRONG!!! The shape of the modifier is as important as its size and affects more than just 'softness': it also determines light spread, fall off, the presence or absence of hot spots, and power consumption. My 7' parabolic mombrella is no longer used for groups, as it creates a hot spot that falls off quickly backwards AND sideways (akin to the 12" bowl reflector: note how the area behind the man on the right in my third photo is underexposed already by ~1+ stop, even though it wasn't that far away from the subjects).

At length, if you must use brollies, non-parabolic ones like the Softlighter will spread the light more evenly, instead of collimating it like parabolic ones do. One trick with brollies is not to have them too close to the group: this way the light won't fall off that quickly as in the example that you posted. Of course, this might require you to up the power in the strobe, which might become a problem if you're using flashguns, whose power ceiling is ~80J.

The direction of the light reverse from left to right in this photo, leaving the center people in flat lighting. That's fine, but in that case you could've just used umbrellas pointing directly at the group like this article shows:
http://www.robgalbrait​h.com …9d.html?cid=7-10046-10396

This results in flat lighting, which is an acceptable result if you have time or space constraints. But when possible, I'd angle the light to get that directional effect but with as many lights as needed to cover the group. Is there a 20' umbrella or softbox that I could use to ensure even lighting? No, but I can simulate that with multiple 'key light' umbrellas and one or more 'fill light' umbrellas.

level5photog wrote in post #18151305
Large group 15-20 people max. Most group are around 5-6 people. I have been using a 60 inch shoot through umbrella over my head. It's going to be power by 600 Watt Godox AD600. Location will be at church or some indoor reception venue.

I would just bounce light if possible for this group with the bare flashes/monolights. A single light, even a 600w, is going to have an issue with enough spread for 15-20 people. Bounced, and well placed, and packed the group, you may be able to cover them. More lights would be ideal, compared to bigger modifiers. This is where I'd just have a couple of speedlites on my end, bare flash, bouncing or direct. Fast to setup, light to carry.

Very best,

You seem to belong to the Soft Light School. We'll never agree.