Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Guest
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photo Sharing & Discussion Astronomy & Celestial 
Thread started 20 Oct 2016 (Thursday) 17:13
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

Sky tracker or telescope

 
MRphotoIRE
Senior Member
Avatar
306 posts
Gallery: 66 photos
Likes: 841
Joined Nov 2015
Location: Ballinascreen
     
Oct 20, 2016 17:13 |  #1

Hi
I am thinking about getting some sort of tracker or a telescope that will enable me to add my 6d to. I have no idea what to look for what's good etc. Budget £1500-£2000gbp

Thanks


"There are no rules for good Photographs, there are only good photographs" Ansel Adams

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Dusty
Goldmember
Avatar
1,152 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 119
Joined Sep 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
     
Oct 20, 2016 17:25 |  #2

MRphotoIRE wrote in post #18162358 (external link)
Hi
I am thinking about getting some sort of tracker or a telescope that will enable me to add my 6d to. I have no idea what to look for what's good etc. Budget £1500-£2000gbp

Thanks

What experience have you got with telescopes?
Do you know how to polar align the device whether it's a scope or a tracker?
Even if you get a tracker, you'll still need to polar align it so you can use it with the 6D and a lens.

:-)


Dusty
20Da, 7D MkII, 5DII,1DX, 16-35L , 24-105L , 85L , 135L , 200L f/2.8 , 300L f/2.8 , MP-E 65

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
MRphotoIRE
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
Avatar
306 posts
Gallery: 66 photos
Likes: 841
Joined Nov 2015
Location: Ballinascreen
     
Oct 21, 2016 01:22 |  #3

I have only had manual basic scopes. It will be a learning experience ;-)a


"There are no rules for good Photographs, there are only good photographs" Ansel Adams

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Scrumhalf
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
7,060 posts
Gallery: 158 photos
Likes: 5614
Joined Jul 2012
Location: Portland, Oregon USA
     
Oct 21, 2016 01:44 |  #4

Get a good equatorial tracking mount and put your 6D on it. Learn to take widefield shots, as well as with, say, a 100-200mm lens. You can get fantastic shots with just a camera on a good mount. Once you have the hang of it, and decide you really want to drive multiple hours and stay up half the night to get good shots. then think of telescopes. Good telescopes are expensive.

Something like a Skywatcher HEQ5 mount, or the Celestron Advanced VX mount would work great.


Sam
5D4 | R7 | 7D2 | Reasonably good glass
Gear List

If I don't get the shots I want with the gear I have, the only optics I need to examine is the mirror on the bathroom wall. The root cause will be there.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Scrumhalf
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
7,060 posts
Gallery: 158 photos
Likes: 5614
Joined Jul 2012
Location: Portland, Oregon USA
     
Oct 21, 2016 01:51 |  #5

Here is a shoot with my 6D and a 70-200, mounted on an iOPTRON Skytracker. This is nowhere close to a good shot but you can see the potential. A good equatorial mount would beat the iOPTRON any day.

IMAGE: https://c2.staticflickr.com/3/2897/14812128913_585e76c5f8_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/oyU2​SZ  (external link) M31 - taken near John Day, Oregon (external link) by Scrumhalf (external link), on Flickr

Sam
5D4 | R7 | 7D2 | Reasonably good glass
Gear List

If I don't get the shots I want with the gear I have, the only optics I need to examine is the mirror on the bathroom wall. The root cause will be there.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
MRphotoIRE
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
Avatar
306 posts
Gallery: 66 photos
Likes: 841
Joined Nov 2015
Location: Ballinascreen
     
Oct 21, 2016 02:50 |  #6

I am already doing astrophotography. Stitching, stacking etc. Always wanted to look a little deeper.


"There are no rules for good Photographs, there are only good photographs" Ansel Adams

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
MRphotoIRE
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
Avatar
306 posts
Gallery: 66 photos
Likes: 841
Joined Nov 2015
Location: Ballinascreen
     
Oct 21, 2016 02:59 |  #7

That was exactly what I wanted to know. A tracking mount may be the way to go before a telescope.


"There are no rules for good Photographs, there are only good photographs" Ansel Adams

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Scrumhalf
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
7,060 posts
Gallery: 158 photos
Likes: 5614
Joined Jul 2012
Location: Portland, Oregon USA
     
Oct 21, 2016 14:41 |  #8

Sorry, didn't realize you are already doing astrophotography. I'm not as familiar with prime focus photography using telescopes. I have a Celestron CPC 1100 which is a Schmitt-Cassegrain design and a Televue TV-85 which is an apo refractor. But I've only used both for visual work. The CPC1100 has a altazimuth mount, so it's no good for long exposures. I've been considering getting an equatorial mount myself to use the TV-85 with my 6D but never actually did it. I live in pretty light polluted skies and getting out to dark skies is a bit of a chore for me these days.


Sam
5D4 | R7 | 7D2 | Reasonably good glass
Gear List

If I don't get the shots I want with the gear I have, the only optics I need to examine is the mirror on the bathroom wall. The root cause will be there.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TCampbell
Senior Member
455 posts
Gallery: 13 photos
Likes: 289
Joined Apr 2012
     
Oct 22, 2016 11:54 |  #9

I typically would suggest a "tracker" as an easier and less expensive way to get into this.

I don't know UK prices for these products, but in the USA, here are some sample prices:

1) The iOptron "SkyTracker" retails for roughly $300 USD. It was probably the most popular tracker ... until Sky Watcher came out with their model. The product works well, but the owners do have a few gripes about the system.

2) The Sky Watcher "Star Adventurer" has a base price of roughly $300 USD... but they sell two optional accessories and for astrophotography I'd _highly_ recommend both of them because they'll make life much easier. The first accessory is a "wedge" that allows you to have more fine adjustment control over the angle of the tracking head. The second accessory is a counterweight bar (with weight) that allows you to achieve neutral balance for your camera. With good balance, the motor wont struggle to track and you'll get more accurate tracking AND the system can handle heavier loads if you want to use a larger/heavier/longer focal length lens.

3) I own a Losmandy "StarLapse". Losmandy makes high-end mounts ... they are actually a machine shop. Nothing is mass-produced... it's machined to exceptional tolerances. I can't say there is zero plastic... but nearly everything is machined metal... there's almost no plastic parts. It's the highest quality tracker and handles the heaviest loads... but it's also the most expensive. It's about $700 USD and that does _not_ include the optional polar alignment scope (which I think is about another $300... while it is probably the nicest alignment scope I've ever used, it's also roughly the same price as a QHYCCD "PoleMaster" which is a digital alignment system that will do a faster and more accurate alignment job.

4) Vixen made a product called the "Polarie" sky tracker but I don't think they make it anymore. It was probably technically a slight step-down from the iOptron SkyTracker (and the two systems look nearly identical).

5) There's also a product (which I think is actually made in the UK if I recall) called the AstroTrac. The AstroTrac is basically a motorized barn-door wedge ... but made out of high quality machined materials. The downside is that it's very expensive (it costs as much as a StarLapse... but isn't nearly as good). It is versatile enough to take any single long-exposure. But if you wanted to collect a lot of data (imaging an object for... say 4-6 hours with of data on one object (which many imagers will do) then it would have to be repositioned (it has a limited travel unlike the other trackers which can rotate continuously through 360º and just keep going.)

In terms of price vs. quality... probably choice #2 is ideal for most people. The StarLapse is probably best in terms of quality and ultimate versatility (you can attach two StarLapse systems to each other to do two-axis tracking and the system handles the load) but it's also about twice the price and the Star Adventurer has helped owners produce a lot of exceptionally good results (stated differently: I doubt that if you bought a Star Adventurer system you would later regret it and wish you would have bought something better.)

Then there's the telescope mount route...

I don't think you'll be happy with this route for $2k price tag.

While you can ultimately do more with a telescope and quality mount, a "quality" mount starts at about $1500 USD. There are sub-$1000 mounts and they even have auto-guider ports... but their tracking quality isn't good for high quality imaging. This is not to say people haven't used them for this... they certainly have... with challenges that had to be overcome. Celestron, for example, makes an $800 USD mount called the "Advanced VX" mount (or just "AVX" for short). But imagers complain that it doesn't have proper bearings so it's tracking performance isn't as good... they complain of "stiction" problems. These problems are somewhat typical of the lowest cost mounts.

The mount quality becomes more important than the scope quality when you do astro-imaging. For "visual" astronomy, the scope quality tends to be more important than the mount... but not for imaging.

Then there's the scope price (because for $1500 you *just* get a mount... no scope).

BTW, the mount type really needs to be an equatorial mount. An alt-az type mount has a lot of challenges (great for visual... lousy for imaging). The field of view is _very_ slowly rotating in an alt-az mounted scope and that field rotation will blur the images and elongate the stars. You can put an alt-az scope on an "equatorial wedge" to fix the field rotation problem, but this causes other issues. The camera often wont have enough clearance to fit between the forks if the mount tries to point too close to the celestial pole (the camera will collide with the base if the forks aren't log enough) and you can get blind-spots near the southern horizon (for northern hemisphere observers). Lastly, it's more difficult to "balance" an alt/az scope (and you NEED good balance.)

At the low end of the spectrum is probably the Newtonian "Astrograph". An "astrograph" is an optical tube designed specifically for astro-imaging purposes and there are lots of different typescope types designated as "astrographs". So "astrograph" isn't really a scope type... it just means it is specifically optimized for imaging (vs. visual). You CAN use an astrograph for visual use too.

There are many other options...

"Achromatic" refractors are low cost but they have CA (Chromatic aberration) problems.
"Apochromatic" refractors are excellent... but they are _not_ low-cost scopes (typically not less than $1000 USD and often several thousand).

Compound scopes such as the very popular Schmidt-Cassegrain Design are also popular. These tend to have long focal lengths (and high focal ratios). So the downside is that you end up with a long imaging time, but the advantage is that they work well for small objects in the sky (well... small based on our point of view... all of these objects are huge if you were up close.)

As the focal lengths get longer, tracking becomes more of an issue. While you can get away with a reasonable duration exposure at, say, 500mm focal length... when you get to longer focal length scopes (an 8" diameter SCT would have a focal length of about 2000mm) you _need_ a guiding system. An auto-guider is typically a second camera and second scope (both on the same mount). The guide camera takes images roughly every few seconds and compares a selected star's position in the image relatively to the first image it took... and will send corrections to the mount if that star appears to be drifting out of position. This allows you to take very long exposures with the main imaging camera with no smear due to tracking errors.

There are lots of options ... but the costs and complexity is certainly higher with a quality telescope mount and imaging scope(s).

While I think most people do try to start out on a reasonable budget, they start to realize which components need to be beefed up for better performance and it doesn't take long before you exceed $3k... or $5k... or $10k. I'm not kidding about these prices... _most_ serious imagers that I know (people who really enjoy taking astro-images so they take many images per year) ultimately kept upgrading their gear and nearly every imager I know has probably spent more than $10k on their gear (very few people spend that all at once... but many of them work their way to that expense by realizing they need a better mount... a better guide camera... a better scope... and the next thing you know they've sunk a lot of money into the hobby.


Unless you're ready to commit a good chunk of money into the hobby... I'd probably encourage you to go the tracker route. It's much less expensive and much easier to learn. But you'll primarily be taking lower focal length (wider pieces of sky) in your images when you use a tracker.

BTW, stability is king no matter what route you go. So even if you get a tracker... you'll want a rock-solid tripod... nothing wimpy (this is the one time where you don't care how much it weighs... it MUST be solid. You wont be carrying it around all day like a tourist... so don't worry about how much it weighs.)




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
MalVeauX
"Looks rough and well used"
Avatar
14,250 posts
Gallery: 2135 photos
Best ofs: 4
Likes: 13370
Joined Feb 2013
Location: Florida
     
Oct 22, 2016 12:49 |  #10

MRphotoIRE wrote in post #18162358 (external link)
Hi
I am thinking about getting some sort of tracker or a telescope that will enable me to add my 6d to. I have no idea what to look for what's good etc. Budget £1500-£2000gbp

Thanks

What do you currently already have?

Have a telescope?
You have a 6D.
But do you already have a scope?

My default answer is always going to be tracker if the word "photography" is involved. You will not be imaging with a telescope of any kind without one. And if you're going to be using a telescope, you need a pretty good tracker that can take some serious weight.

I'll point you towards the SkyWatcher EQ6 as a good starting tracker mount. I think it's in your budget (as I things cost more over there). Really good mid-entry tracker mount.

From there, again, it depends on what scope you have or want to get and what you want to image.

Start with an smaller refractor (400~600 F5~F8 range) if you want to do DSO.
Start with an SCT if you want to do planets (look for an 8" F10 approximately to start maybe).
I would not start with a reflector unless you're very experienced and ready for the learning curve to image with them.

But the more info you can give us, the better info we can give back.

Very best,


My Flickr (external link) :: My Astrobin (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Ishtim
Hatchling
1 post
Likes: 1
Joined Jun 2012
     
Oct 25, 2016 13:34 |  #11

You may also want to Google "barn door tracker" if your interest is simply to have the DSLR/lens track the night sky.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

3,964 views & 5 likes for this thread, 6 members have posted to it and it is followed by 4 members.
Sky tracker or telescope
FORUMS Photo Sharing & Discussion Astronomy & Celestial 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Forums   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset   •  Home

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.58forum software
version 2.58 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is Niagara Wedding Photographer
1925 guests, 154 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15,144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.