High ISO or Flash for casual portraits.

kf095 wrote in post #18162950
To me low light photography isn't about street, bar, sport and events, but family pictures at home with f5.6-f8.

I am assuming you are talking candids and semi-candids (fast poses without careful set-up). Not sure why you need f5.6-f8 for indoor family pictures. I usually try to go more open and try to get away with no flash as long as possible. An on-camera flash adds substantial complexity to the mix - as you are always have to adjust to your changing circumstances.

kf095 wrote in post #18162950
I might pool out from the cabinet used to be famous GF lightsphere to smooth shadows

On-flash diffusers doesn't smooth shadows substantially. Bouncing your flash does.

drmaxx wrote in post #18164337
I am assuming you are talking candids and semi-candids (fast poses without careful set-up). Not sure why you need f5.6-f8 for indoor family pictures. I usually try to go more open and try to get away with no flash as long as possible. An on-camera flash adds substantial complexity to the mix - as you are always have to adjust to your changing circumstances.

On-flash diffusers doesn't smooth shadows substantially. Bouncing your flash does.

Diffusers do shadows less dark, but screwing TTL on my Canon DSLR.

I would like to take pictures close and have entire person in focus. Or more than one person. This required f5.6, f8 for 35, 50 mm FoV. I came to this after taking flashless family pictures @f1.2-2.8 and ISO6400.

Typical example of pictures I'm taking at f8 and f5.6 with flash:

I see. I tend to get in closer - focus on one or two person and isolate them as much as possible from the rest of the room. E.g. (with flash):

Personally I like to use it more like fill than the main light and I use gels to match the ambient so the backgrounds don't look so different color wise.

The former Irish President Mary Robinson was in town for an event i shot a few weeks back and the first example is the Leica M-E at 1600 ISO 1/45 of a sec at F/3.4. Strobe gelled for ambient and used as fill about 1 1/2 stops down from ambient and exposure.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #18164642
Personally I like to use it more like fill than the main light and I use gels to match the ambient so the backgrounds don't look so different color wise.

I generally agree. In my last picture the background is deliberately blueish/cool - to isolate the subject even more.

Picture quality is great at 3200!
But just going back to the OP: If you can stop down to 2.8 (or 2.0 with the 35 mm) from 5.6 you gain 2 stops - which means you can use iso1600 (800) instead of 6400. And using the flash as a fill light like airfrogusmc' post then you got a great thing going....

I don't personally don't like that look. I would rather see the B/G warm or better yet one that matches.

Depending on the situation I find it difficult to "not" have "crispy" photos shooting iso 1600/3200 with bounced flash. If your balancing ambient/flash or using flash as the main source I cannot see how anyone would get bad results with a 5dmk2.

Is this discussion based more on bounced flash technique??

airfrogusmc wrote in post #18164659
I would rather see the B/G warm or better yet one that matches.

You are in good company. Most people like the warmer pictures better. However, I am not paid for these family shot and therefore I create what *I* like.

I can't have even two people in focus at f2.8 if they are not at the same distance from the camera. So, I switched to the flash and f5.6, f8, it gives all faces I need in focus and it is very easy.

1600? I could handle and accept M-E at 2500 if it is enough light.

I've seen a lot of bad results from bounced flash. Bounced light a lot of times, depending on how high the ceiling, you still get those dark eye sockets and Ko has just picked up an M-E and as you can see if used properly the M-E can yield very usable results at 1600 ISO. I can get two people in focus at 3.4 and even 2.8 with a wide angle lens Ko. You should be able to also.

Yes, with 28 and 2.8 I'll have more in focus, but I prefer at least 35 to have less distortion on people.

I'm not only using flash on M-E now, but started to use it again on Canon DSLRs about one year ago.

I don't think the limiting flash use to only one method is smart. I'm using it up to the ceiling, at forty five, one eighty and direct (with high ISO and TTL). Depends on camera and situation.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #18164642
Personally I like to use it more like fill than the main light and I use gels to match the ambient so the backgrounds don't look so different color wise.

The former Irish President Mary Robinson was in town for an event i shot a few weeks back and the first example is the Leica M-E at 1600 ISO 1/45 of a sec at F/3.4. Strobe gelled for ambient and used as fill about 1 1/2 stops down from ambient and exposure.

This is the Leica M 262 at 3200. 1/125 at f/2.5. Again strobe gelled and used as fill.

As you can see the M-E handles 1600 ISO nicely so don't fear it just don't underexpose with it.

The 262 handles 3200 well.

I want work to not look strobed if I need to use them.

Here's a good example of how a photog's technique can change by using a high iso capable camera.

I'd rather shoot a Canon 6d at ISO 5000 and use minimal fill with flash. Why??? no dragging the shutter to gain as much light as possible. A spit of flash will clean up the images rather than relying on pure high iso with no flash. The 6D would have fast shutter speed to stop motion blur and fill light to fill the eye sockets.

Airfrog, your last image displays motion blur due to slow shutters speeds. I'm surprised your fill flash did not stop the motion of the woman's hand movement/gesture.

KF095, regardless of casual family photos or paid events.... best practice is to always eliminate any motion blur from any photos you take. The point of using decent gear is to "ideally" prevent any motion blur using the correct settings. Motion blur is completely unacceptable for me unless it's intentional dragging the shutter at 1/30 for artistic purposes.

KF095 just practice more using proper bounced flash technique and please throw away any stofen or Gary Fong products.

Ko, I don't limit. I use it anyway I need to get the results I need. A lot of time I don't use any flash at all. Do you see a lot of distortion in the shot I posted from the M-E?

The last one was at 1/125 so I wouldn't exactly say dragging the shutter and yeah little motion in her hand but I don't find that objectionable. Adds some to the intensity of her speech. I would have shot this the same way with a Canon. Minimal fill? A stop and a half down is pretty minimal. Much lower and you probably didn't need fill to begin with.

Like I said, I use both bounce and fill (my 580EX has a built-in fill card you can pull up, or you can DIY). It gives me good results indoors as well as outdoors! As has been said, bounce without fill may not be up-to-par: