Struggling on a mirrorless camera.. Which one?

AlanU wrote in post #18177905
Now that I'm also a fuji shooter I think even a fuji X-T10 would be more economical to buy over the X-T1. X-T10 isn't weather proof but it's basically a mini X-T1 with virtually identical performance minus a knob or two. OP's criteria is more for Vacation and family.

At this point in time if someone wants a serious fuji body I really suggest buying an X-T2.

If I had in my bag an 18-55, 16mm, 55-200 (economical stellar glass) and 56 f/1.2 I bet I can virtually cover anything during a vacation. Only thing is I seriously require a good flash which FUJI does NOT have this is one reason why I always mention wanting to buy an Ef-x500 flash.

What are your flash requirements? Nissin with latest firmware can deliver most.

If you need multiple flash TTL solutions, there are a couple third party systems which work today.

F2Bthere wrote in post #18177910
What are your flash requirements? Nissin with latest firmware can deliver most.

If you need multiple flash TTL solutions, there are a couple third party systems which work today.

Hss/ttl.

I'm not aware of a Nissin having such capabilities.This was the reason why I've been waiting for fuji's latest flagship flash unit.

Any suggestions to 3rd party that will meet my needs? I'd appreciate any info.

AlanU wrote in post #18177927
Hss/ttl.

I'm not aware of a Nissin having such capabilities.This was the reason why I've been waiting for fuji's latest flagship flash unit.

Any suggestions to 3rd party that will meet my needs? I'd appreciate any info.

I'm sure Godox is on the brink of releasing one for fuji, I think like everything is cross compatible with that system.

Regular flashes, 360's, and 600's, one trigger to control them all. Pretty darn neat, but my flash needs arent that high, and I would never bring a flash on vacation unless it was a family wedding.

Charlie wrote in post #18177937
I'm sure Godox is on the brink of releasing one for fuji, I think like everything is cross compatible with that system.

Regular flashes, 360's, and 600's, one trigger to control them all. Pretty darn neat, but my flash needs arent that high, and I would never bring a flash on vacation unless it was a family wedding.

Once Fuji releases their flagship flash I still cannot take FUJI out with full confidence.

For example I need my gear to to exactly what I need it to do. I know this sounds silly but if I buy gear it must satisfy my demands.

For example this photo was taken as I "Run and Gun" with no time to fuss with remote flash on stands etc. Virtually no time for "repeats". I could NOT have taken this type of photo with my fuji setup simply due to a lack of Hss/ttl flash. This isn't the best example but most cases using low ISO with current fuji flash units will still not provide me appropriate fill flash for family sessions with artistic sunflares during bright spring/summer days.

Wilt wrote in post #18177754
Not an issue of controversy. I don't bemoan the fact that I don't own/have a Ferrari to drive top speed across the Nevada desert, when I only have the opportunity to make use of the full capabilities only once in a year!
Would I like to have one, sure, is it 'necessary', not usually.
Should the OP use this DR factor as a consideration in choosing a mirrorless? Yes, but perhaps it is not a concern at all for him, or very rarely. Perhaps using a currently-owned set of Canon lenses on a Canon mirrorless is what is best for his needs and wallet.
Ask the average SF Bay area commuter if it truly matters he/she cannot do 100mph on the bumper-to-bumper roads at commute time 500 times a year.

Wilt, what people are doing here is giving OP ideas based on their own experiences and uses. Everyone including the OP needs to take these different ideas or suggestions and make their own decisions based on what is important for their type of photography.

What you are doing is putting down my opinions and suggestions rather than making your own. My suggestions are backed by reasons why they are important for the type of shooting I do and I've given concrete examples where certain features can be used to make photography easier and better.

All you've done is argue and put down my suggestions with stupid examples using cars. Maybe it's time for you to move along if you don't have anything constructive to offer.

AlanU wrote in post #18177949
Once Fuji releases their flagship flash I still cannot take FUJI out with full confidence.

For example I need my gear to to exactly what I need it to do. I know this sounds silly but if I buy gear it must satisfy my demands.

For example this photo was taken as I "Run and Gun" with no time to fuss with remote flash on stands etc. Virtually no time for "repeats". I could NOT have taken this type of photo with my fuji setup simply due to a lack of Hss/ttl flash. This isn't the best example but most cases using low ISO with current fuji flash units will still not provide me appropriate fill flash for family sessions with artistic sunflares during bright spring/summer days.

Hosted photo: posted by AlanU in
./showthread.php?p=181​77949&i=i249154087
forum: Changing Camera Brands

honestly, I never even used HSS, I'm from the ND filter era

I'm thinking that shot could have been done with ISO 100, F16, 1/200 plus regular flash? I'm sure fuji has some sort of regular flash.

AlanU wrote in post #18177949
Once Fuji releases their flagship flash I still cannot take FUJI out with full confidence.

For example I need my gear to to exactly what I need it to do. I know this sounds silly but if I buy gear it must satisfy my demands.

For example this photo was taken as I "Run and Gun" with no time to fuss with remote flash on stands etc. Virtually no time for "repeats". I could NOT have taken this type of photo with my fuji setup simply due to a lack of Hss/ttl flash. This isn't the best example but most cases using low ISO with current fuji flash units will still not provide me appropriate fill flash for family sessions with artistic sunflares during bright spring/summer days.

Hosted photo: posted by AlanU in
./showthread.php?p=181​77949&i=i249154087
forum: Changing Camera Brands

Cool shot Alan....you captured the moment perfectly.

With regards to the DR discussions, shots like these are why DR is useful for portraiture. When shooting portraiture outdoors, I always expose for the sky.....this usually means an EV adjustment of 2-3 stops because a golden hour portrait with the sun positioned behind your subject is a very contrasty scene. With sufficient DR you could expose for the sky and lift the exposure on the subjects in post. Even if you do use flash to get a more flattering light on your subject, you can dial down the power and again, push the exposure in post. This happens whether you intend to or not when you use HSS, since HSS robs you of a lot of power and most often you don't have enough power to expose your subject without blowing out the sky unless you drag a full-on strobe outdoors.

Here's an example shot.....

All natural light and if you dig into the EXIF, you'll see an exposure compensation of -2EV because I exposed for the sky and lifted the shadows in post. Even after that, I still had the head-room to further push the file in post without introducing noise:

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/N6Rs​TA

Hogloff wrote in post #18178043
Wilt, what people are doing here is giving OP ideas based on their own experiences and uses. Everyone including the OP needs to take these different ideas or suggestions and make their own decisions based on what is important for their type of photography.

What you are doing is putting down my opinions and suggestions rather than making your own. My suggestions are backed by reasons why they are important for the type of shooting I do and I've given concrete examples where certain features can be used to make photography easier and better.

All you've done is argue and put down my suggestions with stupid examples using cars. Maybe it's time for you to move along if you don't have anything constructive to offer.

OP started with, "So I shoot with Canon 1DXs, and while I really enjoy it, for family trips and vacations it is an absolute PIG to carry around. So I'd like to get a mirrorless camera that i could also use as a back up in a pinch if I had to." He did not say he was fed up with Canon IQ and sensor limitations vs. some of the current mirrorless sensors.
...He owns Canon lenses already. Maybe he really does not need super DR, and would end up being happy with the new Canon mirrorless that is coming out, and not have to buy a number of lenses for a BACKUP camera. I made my comment in that light!
I have heard a bunch of suggestions of 'buy what I own', rather than counselling the OP for 'what is best for your circumstance'.

mystik610 wrote in post #18178104
Cool shot Alan....you captured the moment perfectly.

With regards to the DR discussions, shots like these are why DR is useful for portraiture. When shooting portraiture outdoors, I always expose for the sky.....this usually means an EV adjustment of 2-3 stops because a golden hour portrait with the sun positioned behind your subject is a very contrasty scene. With sufficient DR you could expose for the sky and lift the exposure on the subjects in post. Even if you do use flash to get a more flattering light on your subject, you can dial down the power and again, push the exposure in post. This happens whether you intend to or not when you use HSS, since HSS robs you of a lot of power and most often you don't have enough power to expose your subject without blowing out the sky unless you drag a full-on strobe outdoors.

Here's an example shot.....

All natural light and if you dig into the EXIF, you'll see an exposure compensation of -2EV because I exposed for the sky and lifted the shadows in post. Even after that, I still had the head-room to further push the file in post without introducing noise:

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/N6Rs​TA _DSC4963-4 by Carlo Alcala, on Flickr

For a 'casual' camera where you want portability but don't want to sacrifice on the quality of your images this is a pretty big deal....why? Because it means you can get away with not lugging a flash around more often than you could with a camera with less DR.

Thanks

I definitely agree with "more the DR" the better

The Fuji bodies are a pleasant surprise for me. Not perfect but no camera system is perfect

What surprises me is the size of the 80D. It's marginally larger than my Micro 43 Panasonic gh3 (same size as gh4). It produces "almost" similar looking files like my fuji bodies. Nice DR on that mirrored body. Video is quite nice too due to DPAF.

I still like to have flash around regardless of casual or paid photography. I will bounce flash indoors or outdoors when needed.

AlanU wrote in post #18177927
Hss/ttl.

I'm not aware of a Nissin having such capabilities.This was the reason why I've been waiting for fuji's latest flagship flash unit.

Any suggestions to 3rd party that will meet my needs? I'd appreciate any info.

I don't have the same cameras you do and the details are important because Fuji implemented some changes to the flash system in firmware upgrades which impacted third party solutions.

If you have the latest firmware for the XT1 or XPro1 or have the Xpro2 or XT2, it is likely you will need the latest firmware on the Nissin as well (it has to "catch up" with Fuji's changes). You will need to run down the specifics for your camera model(s) and firmware version(s), since it is actively changing. This will probably be settled once the 500 is out.

I have used TTL with Nissin but not HSS. At this time, HSS is not formally supported by Nissin but a workaround has been discovered.

In this case, staying up on the latest developments matters precisely because Fuji is changing internals. The Fujix forum is a good source.

fujix-forum.com

One of the unusual cases where a firmware upgrade wasn't a plus

Wilt wrote in post #18178156
OP started with, "So I shoot with Canon 1DXs, and while I really enjoy it, for family trips and vacations it is an absolute PIG to carry around. So I'd like to get a mirrorless camera that i could also use as a back up in a pinch if I had to." He did not say he was fed up with Canon IQ and sensor limitations vs. some of the current mirrorless sensors.
...He owns Canon lenses already. Maybe he really does not need super DR, and would end up being happy with the new Canon mirrorless that is coming out, and not have to buy a number of lenses for a BACKUP camera. I made my comment in that light!
I have heard a bunch of suggestions of 'buy what I own', rather than counselling the OP for 'what is best for your circumstance'.

Well, maybe he can have great dynamic range as well as being able to use his Canon lenses by getting a Sony camera. Like I said given the options...more dynamic range is always better than less. Choosing a Sony camera is a very viable optin for a nice compact camera that can use existing Canon lenses...very much equivalent if not better than going the Canon mirrorless route.

You still appear to be hung up on the dynamic range thing. Why is it that you cannot accept that it's a good thing?

Hogloff wrote in post #18178211
You still appear to be hung up on the dynamic range thing. Why is it that you cannot accept that it's a good thing?

Maybe the promise of the technology has not fulfilled the reality? Print media and monitors cannot present the information contained in a wide DR scene, not without using things like DR compression to make them fit the media. Perhaps DR is like the 'more colors' of aRGB...much more of a promise for the past 10+ years, than the reality of commercial print making services that we can get large prints from...almost nonexistent aRGB print services, most convert to sRGB and lose some of the original scene in the process. Just as DR compression for prints and monitors loses some of the original scene. I did not swallow the aRGB promise 12 years ago, and it is still a promise more than a reality.

How about smaller lenses for Canon? I feel as you move up the ladder of quality from point and shoot to 4/3 to mirrorless you end up close enough to a standard DSLR. I often use my 40mm pancake and I often considered something like a voightlander 20mm to go with it.

I have a friend that has the Sony A7RII and a few small manual primes and he is very happy but with so many choices its really hard to settle on something. I've been paralyzed on this so I never bother but I really don't mind going out with just a camera and 1 lens.

Wilt wrote in post #18178278
Maybe the promise of the technology has not fulfilled the reality? Print media and monitors cannot present the information contained in a wide DR scene, not without using things like DR compression to make them fit the media. Perhaps DR is like the 'more colors' of aRGB...much more of a promise for the past 10+ years, than the reality of commercial print making services that we can get large prints from...almost nonexistent aRGB print services, most convert to sRGB and lose some of the original scene in the process. Just as DR compression for prints and monitors loses some of the original scene. I did not swallow the aRGB promise 12 years ago, and it is still a promise more than a reality.

When a sensor captures a wide range of tones it allows YOU to manipulate these tones under YOUR control during processing and printing. When a sensor is not capable of capturing a large number of tones and forces you to either have white skies or black shadows...then you are SOL during post...your camera already made the decisions for you.

Personally I'd rather be in charge with as much DR, as much colour depth and as many pixels that can be squeezed out of a sensor. This gives me the most flexibility in post rather than the camera's limitations handcuffing my abilities.

Ive always liked the idea of the sigma dp quatro or whatever that foven sensor line is. The only problem being that high iso seems to be lacking. Fuji and sony would also be stellar. I have a hard time recommending canon with these other choices available except for the fact that you are already in the canon ecosystem. It just depends what kind of money you want to spend. I would love to have a pocketable camera that I just carried everywhere.

edit: jacket pocket