Struggling on a mirrorless camera.. Which one?

elitejp wrote in post #18178899
Ive always liked the idea of the sigma dp quatro or whatever that foven sensor line is. The only problem being that high iso seems to be lacking. Fuji and sony would also be stellar. I have a hard time recommending canon with these other choices available except for the fact that you are already in the canon ecosystem. It just depends what kind of money you want to spend. I would love to have a pocketable camera that I just carried everywhere.

Doesn't really exist unless you have massive pockets. My pocket kit is the a7rii and 35 f2.8. in a pinch, it can perform well at 12800 ISO, that's a fairly good like light ability. Use an ilc 50 bag clipped to my belt..... So simple and powerful.

Sometime you just need to enjoy the moment IMHO. ISO25600, 512000, how much more one needs.

I run a photo page on Facebook. One of my best posters shoots an OMD-E1 (I think that's correct model number). From such a tiny sensor, her files pack so much detail in that they outresolve my APS-C Canon 70D. Well worth a look, and a low click used model or refurb gets you more bang for buck.

waiting to get my hands on the omd em1 mark ii in a couple weeks. choosing a mirrorless is proving to be way harder then when i bought my dslr

Wow thank you everyone for the replies! I still have not made a decision, But I really appreciate everyone's opinions and view points. From reading it all here is what I gathered:

There is something to be said for already having the lenses for a camera (Eos M5 or Sony with adapter)

Dynamic range (lol)

Fujifilm surprises a lot of people, I actually have a couple friends who locally shoot with the xt10 and love it.

and finally pick what is best for you. While there wasnt a lot of coversation on full frame vs apsc it was more apsc vs micro 4/3

One of the things I want this camera to do is be more simple, I really appreciate the raw essence of photography and what it does with people. We capture emotion in a lot of cases and not just light. With what I want with my family is just that, capturing the emotion in the little moments. That said I've read and heard that fujifilm is the "peoples" camera. meaning fuji has a better understanding and designs their cameras with people and human interaction in mind. more so that sony or even canon.

now dont get me wrong, I love my canon, the signature canon color sets and the solid reliability that I have been so privy to, but i'm not afraid to try something new, and handling canon's attempt at a mirrorless makes me want to do so.

so for pure curiosity, fujifilm has captured my attention. They have such a simplistic approach and a "film" feel that I'm really curious to try. But with the release of the A6500, I think that would be an awesome travel companion what for pure capability and the sony video advantage.

But I have a go pro, and i dont need a video camera. So perhaps the fuji might be the way to go. I think either way be it the A7ii, XT series or A6XXX series, they all are great cameras that i'll be happy with. And I am of the mindset that I'd rather have lens for this camera than an adapter to use canon ones, which makes fuji more enticing too, they have some decent glass.

Mareshow,

Just remember your intention of a new body is for compact "goodness".

"If" the M5 had a good native lens selection I would say it's a fantastic system in the "CANON" brandname But the high iso cannot compare to the Fuji X-t2. I truly would consider that new M5 body if they had similar Fujifilm lens selection. I'll have to say the bonus of the M5 is that "IF" you decide to go that route adapting EF lenses does NOT take a hit on AF apparently.

If you decide to go Fuji I'd strongly suggest going with the X-T2. No buyers remorse since AF will be as good as it gets for the Fuji system. High ISO is also rated extremely well for most of your shooting needs especially "casual/holiday" needs. Have a piece of mind using fast prime glass for low light situations and smile when you see the IQ of an 18-55 f/2.8-4.0 kit lens.......

IQ is hard to deny in the fuji world since the performance and lens selection of a small form factor system simply delivers. One thing I've become is critical in IQ in lower light. After owning M43 for many years I enjoyed the IQ in good light. What seemed to happen was disappointment shooting higher iso when I post process. Whatever camera you buy you'll always appreciate more headroom at higher ISO. High iso is not the only determining factor but it's certainly nice As long as a camera meets your needs ....it's all good!!

If size is a high priority, then M43 is great as the lenses are also smaller. I shoot near exclusively with a 20mm f/1.7 pancake lens and have recently acquired a GX80 body. I underestimated how useful in body image stabalisation is, especially paired with a quick prime, it's ace.

Mareshow wrote in post #18240566
But I have a go pro, and i dont need a video camera. So perhaps the fuji might be the way to go. I think either way be it the A7ii, XT series or A6XXX series, they all are great cameras that i'll be happy with. And I am of the mindset that I'd rather have lens for this camera than an adapter to use canon ones, which makes fuji more enticing too, they have some decent glass.

If video is important, the XT2 is quite capable including shooting 4k. There is an emerging group of video makers who are adopting Fuji XT2. Video has been a weakness until the Xpro2 and XT2 were released.

Since you have friends with Fuji, you have a valuable opportunity for hands-on with the previous generation of Fuji. The current generation is a significant step up, but the camera interface was already well established in the older models.

I think getting hands on with the Sony is important. I find the interface distracting--everything is about going through menus and using a poorly designed "computer" interface instead of a camera interface. The Fuji embraces classic camera controls more than any manufacturer (except maybe Leica).

If interface is not important, the Sony has much to recommend it if you can figure out a lens solution which works for you. Hands on is, again, important, since Canon itself may offer a better travel solution against the Sony due to camera plus lens size and weight.

If you enjoy the way the camera you select handles, I think you will be happy with whatever you select. We can legitimately argue about details, but none of them is a bad choice and you know which issues are deal-breakers for you and can avoid those.

I hope you will report back once you decide so we know how the story ends .

F2Bthere wrote in post #18240839
I think getting hands on with the Sony is important. I find the interface distracting--everything is about going through menus and using a poorly designed "computer" interface instead of a camera interface. The Fuji embraces classic camera controls more than any manufacturer (except maybe Leica).

Different approaches to ergonomics. While Fuji has embraced the classic and more immediately intuitive nature of manual dials, Sony's approach is more of a 'power users' interface. Sony provides a plethora of user-mappable buttons and wheels that take time to set-up, but is flexible enough to meet the specific needs of different shooting styles. i.e. being able to map eye focus to the custom buttons on the lens itself is awesome when shooting portraits.

Once you get the custom buttons, wheels, and fn screen set-up, you hardly ever have to go into the menus at all, and can make a lot of deep adjustments right from the viewfinder. There's a bit of a learning curve, but once I got over the hump, I found that the shooting experience is better on Sony cameras than any other system I've used.

mystik610 wrote in post #18240871
Different approaches to ergonomics. While Fuji has embraced the classic and more immediately intuitive nature of manual dials, Sony's approach is more of a 'power users' interface. Sony provides a plethora of user-mappable buttons and wheels that take time to set-up, but is flexible enough to meet the specific needs of different shooting styles. i.e. being able to map eye focus to the custom buttons on the lens itself is awesome when shooting portraits.

Once you get the custom buttons, wheels, and fn screen set-up, you hardly ever have to go into the menus at all, and can make a lot of deep adjustments right from the viewfinder. There's a bit of a learning curve, but once I got over the hump, I found that the shooting experience is better on Sony cameras than any other system I've used.

I don't know. I am used to canon 1 series and man that A7rII was pain in the butt when I tried it. Superb sensor and love the eye detect on it, lot more than my Fuji but camera wise even lowly XT1 much better in interface than the Sony. Money wasn't an issue for me.

bobbyz wrote in post #18240944
I don't know. I am used to canon 1 series and man that A7rII was pain in the butt when I tried it. Superb sensor and love the eye detect on it, lot more than my Fuji but camera wise even lowly XT1 much better in interface than the Sony. Money wasn't an issue for me.

How long did you shoot with the A7r2? It took me at least 2 months of regular shooting to ween myself off of the 5d2 interface. Now I'm happier and more productive using the A7r than I was with the 5d2.

I actually still have the 5d2 and Fuji X100 as well as the Sony, all different interfaces and get along with all. It's sort of like renting a car that is different than your own...after a week or so, you are comfortable with the rental.

bobbyz wrote in post #18240944
I don't know. I am used to canon 1 series and man that A7rII was pain in the butt when I tried it. Superb sensor and love the eye detect on it, lot more than my Fuji but camera wise even lowly XT1 much better in interface than the Sony. Money wasn't an issue for me.

I wasn't dissing the Fuji's interface at all so sorry if you took it that way. Only pointing out that there is a learning curve to the Sony because its is a complex, but highly customizable interface. Many people write the system off because it isn't the most immediately intuitive system, but once you really learn how to use it and take the time the customize it to meet your needs, there are some big upsides.

Fuji and Sony are clearly targeting two different types of photographers though, and the interfaces reflect that. Horses for courses.

although the fuji xt2 isnt the smallest option , compared to the 1dx you're used to , its quite a difference i think.. i'm seeing some very good reviews on it,

i'm also very interested in the fuji xt2

got rid of my canon 5d3.. went to a7sii plus my Panasonic Gx8 (Micro 4/3's camera)

miss the 5d3 at times , but that plus the 24-70 2.8 got pretty heavy during family trips / vacations

while i love my gx8 ,, i do admit its resolution isnt always quite what i'm looking for , and the a7sii with its 12mp for stills.. isnt impresssing me ieither ..(but i knew this already before i bought it)

so.. thinking maybe of moving from micro 4/3 to fuji xt2..

keep us updated , if you get it .. and how you like it

It was 3-4 days on a long weekend where I borrowed A7rII from co-worker along with his Batis 85mm f1.8. In the end for what I shoot (low ISOs mainly) I didn't see any difference at all compared to XT1, 56mm f1.2. Sure I could blow up Sony shot to much bigger sizes compared to XT1 but for say 16x20 print, no change. And interface and menus on sony were pain, not that they are perfect on Fuji. I have no issues shooting say 1dmk2 (two handed), XT1, 5dmk3 at the same time but if I need more than couple of days on a system, there is definitely something wrong.

bobbyz wrote in post #18241350
It was 3-4 days on a long weekend where I borrowed A7rII from co-worker along with his Batis 85mm f1.8. In the end for what I shoot (low ISOs mainly) I didn't see any difference at all compared to XT1, 56mm f1.2. Sure I could blow up Sony shot to much bigger sizes compared to XT1 but for say 16x20 print, no change. And interface and menus on sony were pain, not that they are perfect on Fuji. I have no issues shooting say 1dmk2 (two handed), XT1, 5dmk3 at the same time but if I need more than couple of days on a system, there is definitely something wrong.

Different stroke...different folk.

I personally care about the end result...the print the most. That is why I photograph. I spent time getting used to the camera ( A7R ) that will give me the best end result for what I shoot. Now it's 2nd nature to me when using the camera and I find going back to my 5D2 to be a pain. Some people are more adaptable than others I guess.

Oh...and I do print large...bigger than 16x20 and I know for a fact there is a difference between the Fuji files and the Sony files...especially in fine landscape details which get a smudgy feeling with Fuji. The camera club I belong to did a test with a bunch of different cameras. The results spoke for themselves.