No, I don't give you a disc and a release!

I'm trying to write something that answers the question and may educate someone with an open mind. Can you give me your feedback to this?

​I know a lot of people taking pictures are doing that (charging a flat fee and then giving away the images) but I don't do that. I try to price my prints and products through my website at prices that are not exorbitant though I know they are higher than one might pay at the drug store or discount store. That's the short answer and one that may not be pleasing. If you are willing, read on and I'll try to explain a little bit more of why I do it this way - and I certainly don't mean it to be a defensive rant or demeaning to you in any way.

First, I work hard to develop the skill and knowledge of what it takes to capture good images. I have over $10,000 invested in equipment to help achieve that goal also. Once I capture an image I spend considerable time editing, tweaking and refining the image to make it look as good as possible. To take all the value that I have invested in getting a good image and then just giving it away makes no sense. But it's not just or even primarily an issue of making money or preserving value for my own sake.

With a disc of images in hand and a release to print folks can take those images anywhere and get them printed with no assurance that the lab will accurately reproduce that image as it is recorded. A bad printing job of my image makes me look bad and hurts my reputation. I partner with a lab through my website that I know will produce high quality prints and help me maintain a good reputation.

Secondly, artists used to be able to make a living producing artful photographic images. Very few can now make enough money to earn a good living because everyone has a camera taking pictures and a lot of people are charging $75 to take your picture and then giving all the images away. As innocently as folks may be doing this, they are helping to erode the art for all of us.

When artists no longer have the opportunity to support themselves and their families, they no longer have the commercial incentive to excel at producing great art. When that happens, the quality of art suffers and we, as a culture, have to settle for marginal and average images. Our own standards for what looks good decline to the point where we are effusively complimenting one another's blurry and underexposed images on social media.

​Thanks for considering this information - I love visual artistry and want to do my part to keep the standards high for the sake of our present culture and for that which our children will inherit.

Make it BRIEF, folks don't want to have to wade thru all of your motivations and rationale, they only care two things:

• Will you (do this for me)...
  
• And at what price?
  

Who's the intended audience? Your opening words, "I know a lot of people taking pictures are doing that (charging a flat fee and then giving away the images)," imply that you're addressing one person who asked a question, but your essay may instead be meant for your website (for example). In either case, I agree with Wilt that this is too much to say. It comes across as defensive. A person who sells a service is entitled to offer some deals and not others.

if you're taking portraits, wedding/engagement sessions, i don't really think it's all about art...or at least not as stressed as you seem to be making it out to be...

the problem you face is you really have to keep up with the times...if other people are offering a disc of images, people will probably head in that direction as opposed to paying $200 for the rights of 1 image to use on social media...you're right that at the end of the day, there are a bunch of people out there with cameras and taking pictures...if you can't separate yourself from them, then why would they choose you with your limited choices for the final products...

I don't really understand your text and your line of argument doesn't make sense to me. Why is a digital image any different from a print? And you should not whine about your clients making your work look bad. Your clients can make your careful print look bad by using a horrible frame with a tinted glass and hang it crooked over the toilet bowl..... They will take a cell phone picture of the print, run a flickr filter over it and send it to their grandma or post it on the internet. You don't have this under your artistic control. If you want this type of control, then you need to become a photographic artist that only caters to museums and art galleries.

However, there is nothing wrong with defining your product as print only. If this is your big artisan strength then this is certainly great and can distinguish yourself from the masses. This is what I would suggest to emphasize - that your strength and specialty is to create photographic prints. That's why they should hire you and that's what you deliver - and ignore the rest.

nicshow wrote in post #18212504
a lot of people are charging $75 to take your picture and then giving all the images away.

a number of people are charging nothing & then giving all the images away.

nicshow wrote in post #18212504
I'm trying to write something that answers the question and may educate someone with an open mind. Can you give me your feedback to this?

...what you have written is all about you.

YOU YOU YOU YOU.

I don't care that you want to be an artist. I don't care if I print something that makes you "look bad." I don't care how much money you have invested in equipment. I don't care that you spend considerable time editing and tweaking and refining your images.

I'm the customer. I'm going to google photographers in your area and I'm going to make my selections rather quickly. If you aren't going to sell me a disk load of images thats fine: I'll go find a photographer who will give me a disk load of images. But giving me a stern lecture isn't going to change my mind.

What would change my mind is a portfolio of amazing images, a list of incredible products and a promise of a magical experience. But I go to your "investment" page and find out that a Senior session will cost me $200.00 and I get zero prints and a single image at facebook resolution. Do you sell prints? What sort do you sell? What quality are they?

I click on your senior portfolio and I discover I can buy a random photo of a senior.

http://www.nicshowalte​r.com/p683826845

For starters don't you think that is a bit creepy? And secondly: I still know nothing about the prints that you sell. Are they glossy, lustre or metallic? So I pay a $200.00 session fee, then have to buy prints on top, and I get a lecture?

Have you put together a business and marketing plan? I would suggest you do that before anything else: and let the plan guide the direction you take your website and your marketing. This lecture is off-putting. It may appeal to "like-minded artists." But "like-minded artists" aren't going to pay the bills.

Sorry but I can't see your message having anything like the desired effect. People will pay more for something that they can get cheaper elsewhere, but only if they think there is value in it for THEM (IE that it is better quality than the alternative). Your message is all about what you want/how this benefits you/your business and does nothing to convey value for the client.

nicshow wrote in post #18212504
I'm trying to write something that answers the question and may educate someone with an open mind. Can you give me your feedback to this?

​I know a lot of people taking pictures are doing that (charging a flat fee and then giving away the images) but I don't do that. I try to price my prints and products through my website at prices that are not exorbitant though I know they are higher than one might pay at the drug store or discount store. That's the short answer and one that may not be pleasing. If you are willing, read on and I'll try to explain a little bit more of why I do it this way - and I certainly don't mean it to be a defensive rant or demeaning to you in any way.

First, I work hard to develop the skill and knowledge of what it takes to capture good images. I have over $10,000 invested in equipment to help achieve that goal also. Once I capture an image I spend considerable time editing, tweaking and refining the image to make it look as good as possible. To take all the value that I have invested in getting a good image and then just giving it away makes no sense. But it's not just or even primarily an issue of making money or preserving value for my own sake.

With a disc of images in hand and a release to print folks can take those images anywhere and get them printed with no assurance that the lab will accurately reproduce that image as it is recorded. A bad printing job of my image makes me look bad and hurts my reputation. I partner with a lab through my website that I know will produce high quality prints and help me maintain a good reputation.

Secondly, artists used to be able to make a living producing artful photographic images. Very few can now make enough money to earn a good living because everyone has a camera taking pictures and a lot of people are charging $75 to take your picture and then giving all the images away. As innocently as folks may be doing this, they are helping to erode the art for all of us.

When artists no longer have the opportunity to support themselves and their families, they no longer have the commercial incentive to excel at producing great art. When that happens, the quality of art suffers and we, as a culture, have to settle for marginal and average images. Our own standards for what looks good decline to the point where we are effusively complimenting one another's blurry and underexposed images on social media.

​Thanks for considering this information - I love visual artistry and want to do my part to keep the standards high for the sake of our present culture and for that which our children will inherit.

^ Yes, yes to the last 2 posts.

This garbage is an immature rant and needs to be dragged to the recycle bin.

I spell out my pricing rationale as noted below. When they then read my "Media Pricing" section they will find precisely what I sell, and understand why things are priced as they are. BTW, if others can improve on my verbage, I would welcome it. : )

Custom Photography:

Unlike the simple snapshot, custom photography is a two part process resulting in a level of sophistication that appeals to the more discerning person. The creative process starts with the capturing of the images, followed by the art of making those raw images into finished pictures. The time invested at the photo session is only a portion of time involved in the process of “making pictures”. Each of my RAW images is individually “developed” and fine tuned, applying my years of technical know-how in image processing, ensuring you the highest quality finished product.

Investment:

My pricing consists of the following components:

Creative Fee
My Creative Fee covers the time, vision, creativity, expense, and skills required to capture the raw images.

Finished Print / Media Pricing (See Media Pricing section)
This includes the time, vision, creativity and technical skills required to produce the highest possible quality finished image. It also includes shipping charges.

Prints / Media
Each client may have a different set of requirements for the final delivered product, therefore instead of offering predefined packages I prefer to give you flexibility to define a package that meets your needs precisely. This way you end up paying for what you actually want. See Media Pricing section for details.

Optional Services (Quoted on a case by case basis)
These include: major retouching/artistic effects, photo collages, graphic design, expedited service, etc.

The focus must remain on the client, their experience, the value to them and perhaps the status of the product. Try not to justify. A 5 star restaurant doesn't justify why they cost more than McDonald's and their clients don't expect them to do so. Clients for a 5 star restaurant expect more and get more. Speak to those clients. There is no need to focus on trying to convert McDonald's customers to 5 star restaurant customers.

My 2 cents (FWIW - I sell wall art and albums and not CDs). I am happy to have 1 customer to the 10 I used to need with the CD business model.

Wilt wrote in post #18212526
Make it BRIEF, folks don't want to have to wade thru all of your motivations and rationale, they only care two things:

• Will you (do this for me)...
  
• And at what price?
  

^this. If I were a client and made it as far as the page that had that text on it I'd move on.

Some of the contributors to this thread had some great input. In my opinion breaking the pricing down into categories to justify it will just have the client asking more questions. You can do that as you rough out what to quote for a job for sure...but I never share that with the client. Mine get a single dollar value and a list of deliverables that dollar value will provide them. Most of my stuff is delivered as a download and to be honest - once I get paid I really don't care if they hire a crappy printer or use their laser printer in their office. My watermark is not on their purchased product.

Agreed. I don't include this specific breakdown for my corporate clients. They get it. They also are not interested in prints because this kind of work is being published, ending up in adverts, websites or internal communication.

I agree with you completely. The shoot and burn photographer is killing the art of photography.

HammerCope wrote in post #18212697
I agree with you completely. The shoot and burn photographer is killing the art of photography.

Just to clarify: YOUR art is getting worse because someone else is selling photography services cheaply?

sorry but what YOU may want does not mean anything to the client. I have over 20 thousand in camera gear (aust) but the client does not give a toss what I have purchased to take photos with. They care about what they will get for THEIR money. wedding photos now are all about photo jounalistic style. I have more or less given up doing weddings but when I did the clients wanted a disk of photos, I charged them accordingly. Still do family shoots etc. With the old school attitude of no disk, they just turn away and go elsewhere. Times have changed Im afraid