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Thread started 06 Jan 2017 (Friday) 09:53
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Photo Printed From LR Printed Too Bright....What To Adjust?

 
spooky ­ action
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Jan 06, 2017 09:53 |  #1

Good Morning POTN:

So last night I calibrated my early 2009 iMac with the Colormunki Display for the first time (which resulted in a noticeably dimmer monitor) and thereafter printed from it to my Canon Pixma Pro 100 onto Canon Pro Luster paper. This also happened to be the first time I have printed directly from LR's printer module (which pulled up my Mac's native printer dialog). The original photos in LR are in RAW, and if I recall they were changed into JPEG's by LR/Mac's printer dialog for purposes of printing. Before this, I would always export as a JPEG to my iMac hard drive and print from photo preview.

The photos (I printed two on one 13x19 sheet) printed brighter than they should have.

To the extent I can read them properly, the histograms for each photo should not have resulted in a too-bright printing. Also, the colors in both photos came out great, they were just a little too bright resulting in their lacking some punch.

My initial hunch is I need to turn down the printer brightness in the LR module which was defaulted to 40. But really I have no idea what adjustment needs to be made, so please help! Also, any tips on printing directly from LR are greatly appreciated!

Thanks for your help.


Josh
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BigAl007
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Jan 06, 2017 10:41 |  #2

LR doesn't actually create a JPEG to print, it simply renders the image, based on the settings in the print module controls, and sends it to the printer driver. There are two sliders that you can use to tweak the output to the printer for just this situation, usefully labeled brightness and contrast. This situation is exactly what they are designed to overcome. I don't use a Mac, or a Pro 100, so other specifics are difficult. If you are printing full bleed then be aware that if you have sized the image to fit exactly on the paper, that the print driver will actually print it a little oversized on the paper, so you don't get white lines from slightly misplaced/misaligned paper. On a full sized print I would never put anything that is really important within about 60 pixels of the edge of the paper, as there is a good chance that you might lose it. Also because this is dependent on the natural variability and tolerances of the printer this will vary from print to print, even when you are printing the same image. Often it can be fairly consistent from print to print in a batch, but may change when you load more paper for example. It is not just the Canon printers that do this, every printer i have ever used, including top class pro labs have to do this.

Alan


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Jan 06, 2017 11:02 as a reply to  @ BigAl007's post |  #3

Thank you for your response. I guess my hunch was correct. I will turn down the brightness and/or turn up the contrast slider and print some 4x6 trial and error shots to see where I need to leave it from now on. I did print full bleed, but did not lose anything important. Thanks for the tip though!

I will also pay attention to the output selected in LR. The print module showed 16 bit, and I don't remember seeing an option to delineate the type of file to be sent, so I was actually kind of annoyed when my Mac printer dialog showed JPEG. I will look at it a little closer, as I must have missed something.

Thanks again, Alan!

Josh


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Jan 06, 2017 18:10 |  #4

I believe that on the Mac you can actually send 16 bit data to some printers, and I would probably not worry too much what the print driver is saying, I'm quite sure that if you are printing directly from LR that you are at no time using a JPEG file, or JPEG compression even. other than that not having a Mac makes it a lot harder to give specific advice.

Alan


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Post edited over 6 years ago by Wilt. (2 edits in all)
     
Jan 06, 2017 23:30 |  #5

This image from Fuji, can test your printer vs. your monitor...it should look well balanced on both!

http://cdn.northlight-images.co.uk …2/frontier_colo​r57s_2.zip (external link)

It will help to understand if your issue is the LR Print module output to the printer, or
your monitor is adjusted to be too dark, resulting in a bright image sent to the printer


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Jan 07, 2017 01:46 |  #6

I was going to say Xrite ought to make a cal unit that works for both monitor and printing. Then I noticed that they have a "colormunki photo" solution that does monitor, printer, and camera. That's three calibrations for less than triple the price of the "colormunki display".

spooky action wrote in post #18235363 (external link)
Good Morning POTN:

So last night I calibrated my early 2009 iMac with the Colormunki Display for the first time (which resulted in a noticeably dimmer monitor) and thereafter printed from it to my Canon Pixma Pro 100 onto Canon Pro Luster paper. This also happened to be the first time I have printed directly from LR's printer module (which pulled up my Mac's native printer dialog). The original photos in LR are in RAW, and if I recall they were changed into JPEG's by LR/Mac's printer dialog for purposes of printing. Before this, I would always export as a JPEG to my iMac hard drive and print from photo preview.

The photos (I printed two on one 13x19 sheet) printed brighter than they should have.

To the extent I can read them properly, the histograms for each photo should not have resulted in a too-bright printing. Also, the colors in both photos came out great, they were just a little too bright resulting in their lacking some punch.

My initial hunch is I need to turn down the printer brightness in the LR module which was defaulted to 40. But really I have no idea what adjustment needs to be made, so please help! Also, any tips on printing directly from LR are greatly appreciated!

Thanks for your help.




  
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Jan 07, 2017 09:31 |  #7

Wilt wrote in post #18236139 (external link)
This image from Fuji, can test your printer vs. your monitor...it should look well balanced on both!

http://cdn.northlight-images.co.uk …2/frontier_colo​r57s_2.zip (external link)

It will help to understand if your issue is the LR Print module output to the printer, or
your monitor is adjusted to be too dark, resulting in a bright image sent to the printer


Wilt I really don't understand how this image is supposed to be helpful. It is completely untagged as regards to colour profile, which means that the colour management system in your software has no starting point for determining what the colours should actually look like on any particular managed output device. I know that for printer profiling you use a test image with various RGB swatches, and that it has no profile. Not having a profile at this point not being an issue, since to profile you have to send it to the printer without ANY colour management, so that the profiling device can record the hue the printer gives for any set of RGB values and thus build a profile. Printing this test target with or without colour management won't tell you much, since you don't have a clue what the "correct" hue for any RGB triplet is.

On the other hand I like the test images that Kieth has on this page http://www.northlight-images.co.uk …-web-browser-test-images/ (external link). It has a set of images in sRGB, aRGB, ProPhotoRGB, as well as a couple of others, as well as one in "WhackedRGB" which is effectively a broken colour profile, that will only show the correct colours if the system you are using is truly and correctly colour managed. So far I found them really useful in setting up my wide gamut Dell UP2715K monitor. It has several hardware LUTs for colour management, and a very good profile switching program. So I can have the screen be a true 100% sRGB when viewing Chrome or other browsers, since even if the browser is correctly colour managed many images on the web although being sRGB have no profile information attached to them, to allow the colour management system to do it's work. Since in so many situations colour management either isn't implemented, or is broken to some extent or another they have been very useful in setting up my system. As well as all of this though these images would also be very good for test printing, since they are correctly set up for each colour space. If your colour management is truly set up correctly, so that everything matches across all devices, these images should also match exactly when used with colour managed software and profiled devices. So when printing from LR, with those brightness and contrast sliders set to zero, the print should be the correct brightness as long as the colour profile is correct. Changing the colour profile can change the perceived brightness as well as the perceived hue of the result.

After typing all of the above out I also remembered something very important, your print will only match the screen if your viewing booth meets the correct viewing conditions. You need to be using a D65 (6500 Kelvin colour temp) light source, which is a lot easier these days, although the colour temp matches better now, the RI value that shows how good the spectral response is can be much lower, down as far as 80% compared to the 100% of a tungsten filament or the sun. To be considered good the RI should be 85% or better, although depending on where the spectral gaps are, one 85% can be better or worse than another 85% source for a particular image. As well as the WB and spectral response though the intensity of the lighting will also have a very large effect on the appearance of the print. In very many cases of prints seeming to be too dark, it is simply that the print is being viewed in conditions that are far too dark. IIRC according to specifications the brightness level at the paper should be about 100-120 Cd/m^2 pretty much matching the screen brightness. Giving this some thought, and if you are really serious about printing, and correctly viewing them, a cheap way to build a good viewing booth for prints would be to pick up and old LCD monitor to use as the light source. This would produce a large evenly illuminated area, which is not otherwise easy to do. Most of these D65 lamps that are sold for print viewing and crafting are in the £100 range and to do larger than A3/16×12 you would need two of them for even coverage, you should be able to get a reasonable secondhand 27" monitor for that sort of money, it can be very low resolution after all, or even a couple of 23" - 24" units. Then all you need to do is calibrate them to D65 white point, have them so they are just outputting white and mount them over your viewing booth. Most monitors go way too bright normally anyway, so the brightness at the print should be good, as long as the monitor will still calibrate at that brightness level. A cheap way to an actually calibrated viewing booth, you should be able to simulate almost any viewing conditions this way too.

Alan


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Jan 07, 2017 12:24 as a reply to  @ BigAl007's post |  #8

Al, the test with a 'standard JPG' sets a baseline, it has an appropriate inherent level of brightness for the graphics contained within the file.
So, using JPG viewer which does not make use of any monitor profile to display, you check whether or not the image looks good on the uncompensated monitor. Then, when you bring up the file and view it on a compensated monitor, it should also look good! Level 0 is level 0 on any monitor, Level 128 is level 128 on any monitor, Level 255 is level 255 on any monitor (and all the intermediate levels). The non-profile display is the baseline for the Fuji JPG image, and you verify display brightness from there...if 128 looks like 200, your monitor is too high on Brightness, if 128 looks like 86, it is too low in Brightness, fundamentally. If 128 looks to be the appropriate middle tone on non-profiled display application, but it looks to be 101 on the profiled display, the profile is NOT TRUE to the inherent brightness recorded for that data.

Printing to a printer of the right printer profile appropriate to the paper and inks in use, the same 'standard JPG' should also look good on the printed page, too! Level 0 is level 0, Level 128 is level 128, Level 255 is level 255 (and all the intermediate levels).

Color profile really is intended to tweak hues so they display with the right nuance of R-G-B mix...the software knows that it is attempting to display 12-100-95, so it knows that it needs to tweak the numbers to compensate for reading 15-105-88 with the sensor instead.

I couldn't think of the Northlight name for test images, I wanted to refer the OP to that site.

It seems that -- all too often -- someone actually creates a problem for themselves via monitor profiles!


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Jan 07, 2017 16:44 |  #9

spooky action wrote in post #18235363 (external link)
Good Morning POTN:

My initial hunch is I need to turn down the printer brightness in the LR module which was defaulted to 40. But really I have no idea what adjustment needs to be made, so please help! Also, any tips on printing directly from LR are greatly appreciated!

Thanks for your help.

The default value is 0, so 40 is adding a lot of brightness. Prints typically look darker so a little compensation is normal. I only use +10 on my Pixma Pro-100. Maybe you tweaked that brightness once a long time ago?

Anyway, that is the simple way to tweak your problem. Dial it back halfway and try again. Maybe on a smaller sheet of the same paper though...just to save money.


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BigAl007
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Jan 07, 2017 20:37 |  #10

RMyers wrote in post #18236897 (external link)
The default value is 0, so 40 is adding a lot of brightness. Prints typically look darker so a little compensation is normal. I only use +10 on my Pixma Pro-100. Maybe you tweaked that brightness once a long time ago?

Anyway, that is the simple way to tweak your problem. Dial it back halfway and try again. Maybe on a smaller sheet of the same paper though...just to save money.

I missed that little nugget in the OP's original post, yes in LR the print brightness and contrast sliders should be defaulted at 0. The thing is that it can be very easy for a setting change to end up being made sticky, since usually in LR when you save a new printer preset, it will include all of those settings. A properly setup system should produce the correct results under the specified viewing conditions, which as I mentioned earlier are actually very bright, brighter than most home environments where the print is likely to be displayed. Because the viewing conditions are pretty much always dimmer than specified you only actually get a control to make the image brighter with more contrast from the default position.

Wilt, I made an error of assumption regarding that Fuji image. I only had a quick look at it while it was still in the zip file. Seeing the image I assumed it was the same as the one that I had downloaded previously from the website of a lab, which didn't for some reason have a profile attached, so I couldn't figure out what to do with it. Since I didn't have the image on my new computer, I pulled it from the zip file anyway, and on looking at it in Bridge I see that it is in fact tagged as sRGB, which makes far more sense for a printer test file. Because I really don't see how sending what is effectively a set of random numbers to the printer will tell you anything useful. That is unless you want to know what colour you will get from sending a particular set of RGB values as part of the calibration process. What I want from a test image is to be able to open it in my imaging software and see a specific result on screen, and then see that identical result when I send the image to a different output device such as a print, when both systems are viewed under the standard viewing conditions, which is always part of the deal that you really have to remember. You can only do that where the image says this set of RGB values means this colour/brightness combination for the output device. Unless you have an agreed meaning for Red, Green, Blue, Black , and White there is no way to make any meaningful comparison between output devices. After all it is because one device might actually output a true mid grey for RGB values of 128, 128, 128; while it might take values of 96, 127, 135 to output a true mid grey on another device, it is the whole reason that we do colour profiling and colour management at significant expenditures of both time and money, so that our images look consistent. Printer profiles change with both paper and ink sets, papers can have a very significant effect on the brightness of an image, since the use of OBA's can literally make the surface of the paper glow when the light source has a high enough level of UV in it. If I were to switch between using a paper with lots of OBA's to one with none, and viewed the prints in sunlight with absolutely no colour management used there would a big enough difference in perceived brightness that you would probably say there was a problem with the printer using your straight through numbers will be OK theory.

Alan


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Jan 24, 2017 10:50 |  #11

Just to conclude this thread, I finally had a chance to reprint my too-bright photo recently. When I opened the print module in LR, sure enough, the "printer brightness" bar was set to +40 again. I slid it to 0, printed a 4x6 using the button that opens the iMAC printer dialog (as opposed to print from LR), and the result was a perfect print without the extra brightness. I have no idea why it was set to +40, but it was and changing that fixed the print.

On an unrelated note, I printed a different shot using "print from LR" button. The issue I saw was that I could not specify the type of paper beyond "matte" or "glossy", thus I couldn't choose the exact type of canon paper I was using. In any event, I then printed through the iMAC OS selecting the specific canon paper, but there was no discernible difference between the two.

Thanks again for everyone's in depth answers. It was quite the read.


Josh
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Photo Printed From LR Printed Too Bright....What To Adjust?
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