Really Good Explanatory Video

This video shows a LOT of interesting ways to help 'most' in their shots concerning subject placement, even if you think you know it all you may learn something.

Photo Composition is Simple!

https://www.facebook.c​om …/videos/1187102​998010849/

Randy

I apologize about the link ONLY being on Facebook, you may not be able to see this if you aren't a Facebook member, I looked elsewhere but I could not find it.

I was shown that it actually is on YouTube, thanks to Steve for letting me know.

https://www.youtube.co​m …yNjKSr0M&featur​e=youtu.be

Randy

There is this too, it may add to what is posted in the link above earlier, I don't really use a lot of any of this due to me mostly shooting birds, I don't have a chance to things happen so quickly. When I don't shoot so fast I do 'try to think' of how it should go in-camera, but I am so rusty it's very hard for me to do, I can't even remember the Italian names for them much less what they stand for!

Hopefully this helps too and makes one think about 'stuff' if possible.

https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=AJ7fahM5sBQ

Randy

recrisp wrote in post #18249564
I don't really use a lot of any of this due to me mostly shooting birds, I don't have a chance to things happen so quickly.

I think that it is appropriate for placement here in the Bird Talk sub-forum. Leading lines, rule of thirds, patterns, repetition.........all of that is regularly employed in bird photography. If you have trouble putting these compositional tools to use in your bird photography, there are many things you can do to "slow things down" a bit so that you have time to compose intentionally.

When you are not out photographing birds, don't you spend a lot of time thinking about what kind of bird photo you would like to get the next time you are afield? You can spend a lot of time delving deeply into "your mind's eye". Daydream and fantasize about the awesome photos you'd like to take. Think thru every detail of the composition, every object that is in the frame. If you do this enough, then it will become second nature to look for these opportunities when you are out with your camera in the presence of the birds.

Get yourself into situations where you have birds all around you, where you can just sit there in their midst for extended periods of time. Then you can wait until the birds present you with the composition you have been looking for, and be ready to shoot off some images when this happens. If you have spent enough time imagining it in your mind, then you will become quicker to recognize it when it happens in the field.

Videos like the one you posted can be quite helpful when it comes to dreaming up creative compositions for bird imagery. Thanks for posting that!

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Really what I meant was (in my case) I do use what I can when I can, but when birds (or whatever) are fast, there's no time for contemplation. Seconds count!
I wholeheartedly agree though that if and when the occasion arises to use what you can, but if a Kinglet, Wren, or another 'fidgety-bouncy' bird happens by, well, I don't know...
Like you mentioned that when you have the time to envision a shot that is in your head and try for that, I do that all of the time, usually though the bird doesn't listen, so I make do.
Honestly too, all of these aren't my cup of tea, yet anyway, for me I am happy enough with the, "Rule of Thirds", I usually go from there, the RoT's is something that shows itself really fast in my way of thought, it's easy, the other stuff (if I have the time) I might use or I might do in post-processing. The ONLY reason I do what I do anyway is for me, I just have fun, I don't sell any shots and if someone sees one of my pictures and likes it, that's good, but if not, I just have to deal with it.
Right now I have hundreds of shots that I like but haven't bothered to process or look at seriously, and that is in my 'good' pile. I know I'm not the only one... heh

Thanks, Tom!


I find it odd that a lot of people will talk all day in the Birds Forum, but here they don't want to discuss much, this is just directed to anyone that reads this.

Randy

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recrisp wrote in post #18267840
I find it odd that a lot of people will talk all day in the Birds Forum, but here they don't want to discuss much, this is just directed to anyone that reads this.

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I find that odd too, Randy.

The really odd thing is that people will talk about gear so much.......what lens is best? What body is best? What computer system is best?

And they will talk quite a bit about settings...........I.S​. or no I.S.? How to set up focus for BIF? How to expose for this situation?

All of those things are so mundane. So boring to discuss. And they don't even make much of a difference in one's bird photos.

Yet the things that are most important to good photographs, things such as composition and light and supporting elements within the frame - those are things for which you just can't get the same amount of discussion. It really is pity, too.

So, perhaps we can keep this discussion going here in this good thread that you created! Who knows - perhaps others will join in with some difference-making insights!

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One of the compositional types that Steve discussed in the video was "Patterns and Repetition". . He goes on to say, "But the best is when the pattern is interrupted".

So, how could one use this in bird photography? Here is an example:

Photo from Tom Reichner's gallery.
Image hosted by forum (777865)

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18267885
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I find that odd too, Randy.

The really odd thing is that people will talk about gear so much.......what lens is best? What body is best? What computer system is best?

And they will talk quite a bit about settings...........I.S​. or no I.S.? How to set up focus for BIF? How to expose for this situation?

All of those things are so mundane. So boring to discuss. And they don't even make much of a difference in one's bird photos.

Yet the things that are most important to good photographs, things such as composition and light and supporting elements within the frame - those are things for which you just can't get the same amount of discussion. It really is pity, too.

So, perhaps we can keep this discussion going here in this good thread that you created! Who knows - perhaps others will join in with some difference-making insights!

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That is so very true, but I guess in our realities that we only have so much time in a day and we can't say all that we want. They may be boring but for newbies they are very much needed, but those of us that have 'been there, done that' you'd think somebody'd be willing to talk!

Thanks, Tom, that's a good point!

Randy

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18267889
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One of the compositional types that Steve discussed in the video was "Patterns and Repetition". . He goes on to say, "But the best is when the pattern is interrupted".

So, how could one use this in bird photography? Here is an example:

Gallery photo (hosted):
posted by Tom Reichner originally in forum: Competitions

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I really like that, Tom, in all of the years that I have been shooting I have not had an opportunity to see, much less shoot something even remotely similar. I like that, and I like the idea behind that too. To be honest and I ain't going to lie, some things don't come naturally to me, and seeing that redhead in the middle of the coots 'might be' something I'd overlook.I haven't been in that position, so I can't say. For me, freezing, sweating, kneeling down on rocks, chimping, ADHD, and God knows what else that distracts me can, and does. Some days are effortless, some are far from that. The year of 2016 has been one of the worst years for me shooting wildlife, I have some good excuses, but it's just not been a prolific year, this year's too new to say, but I hope that I get some chances to see.
(Quickly off-topic, I found two new wildlife refuges that I need to visit mostly due to your helpful links in my other thread. I didn't find and really good links, but it did make me stop and think more, so I got more persistent, and sure enough there is some places that should have results, we'll soon see)

There's something that I always found kind of strange... Birds in flight, (BiF) I love doing that, but where I was, and probably where I am now I don't always have that chance to see or shoot, so a lot of my shots are while birds are either sitting or swimming, etc. Compare that to a portrait/senior photographer shooting his model, we don't strive to add action to the shot by asking the subject to flail their arms or start running, moving, etc. Why is it then that we strive to do that in our bird shots? I know that it adds action, but from what I have gathered throughout my time here and talking with others is it's a must needed thing to have, personally, I don't believe that 100%. Nothing more that I would like is to have an eagle stopping midways in his flight turning to look me square in the eye, and I'll take it if the chance presents itself, but in the meantime a portrait of a duck or a woodpecker will do, it's for my fun anyway.

Thanks, Tom!

Randy

recrisp wrote in post #18267948
There's something that I always found kind of strange... Birds in flight, (BiF) I love doing that, but where I was, and probably where I am now I don't always have that chance to see or shoot, so a lot of my shots are while birds are either sitting or swimming, etc.

I can relate to your feelings about birds in flight. Birds are at their most dramatic when they are in flight, hence the love that we all have for a good BIF photo.

Yet, most birds spend well over 95% of their time NOT in flight. They'll hop about the ground foraging for food for 10 minutes, then they'll fly for 5 or 10 seconds to get to a different area of the field or forest, forage aground for another 10 minutes, repeat.

Except for the brief migrational period, wild ducks feed and rest for hours upon hours at a time, then spend about 5 minutes flying from the feeding area to a resting area or vice versa. Again, almost all of the time on the water or on the ground.

Hence, I think there is great value in photographing birds on perches, on the ground, or on the water. Why? Because it shows them as they normally are, and thereby captures the very essence of their existence.

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I can honestly say a lot of the photographers I know have no clue what makes a great photograph...but then again, a great photograph is subjective to the person seeing it or taking the picture. I'm sometimes asked what I think of a photograph someone else took or they personally took and because feelings get hurt with an honest answer (my opinion) I usually reply with "Do you like the photograph...if so, my opinion really doesn't matter." People often say to me they can't believe some of the images I delete and I try to explain to them why and they'll never understand.

I read a lot about what is right and what is wrong but in the end I have to do this hobby to make myself happy...if I'm not happy or challenged I move onto another hobby. I tend to shoot alone now so I'm able to pick and choose the images I'm after with the subject I'm photographing at the time and not worrying about messing someone else's shot up by me moving around trying different backgrounds and shooting angles.

Tom's example of patterns with the Red-headed Duck among the Coots is probably an image I would have passed on personally because there's too much going on. Yes, it has merit but not what I'm after with my images. I like to isolate my subject(s) free of distractions in the background, optimal light, low shooting angle when possible and some sort of eye contact. Most importantly some sort of unique pose/look and something that shows the behavior of what I'm photographing (mating, preening, drinking, bathing as examples).

As I read back on what I just typed I'm reminded of one of my favorite Snowy Owl images I've captured and have hanging in my home as a 24" X 36" print.

OK, I watched the video and shared it on my FB page. Very informative video and I especially like the end about breaking the rules. I was told a long time ago by a professional photographer that rules are meant to be broken as long as you understand them.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18267998
Except for the brief migrational period, wild ducks feed and rest for hours upon hours at a time, then spend about 5 minutes flying from the feeding area to a resting area or vice versa. Again, almost all of the time on the water or on the ground.

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With the exception of when ducks preen, then immediately after they almost always 'stand up' then flap their wings, plus there's the mating stuff, always fun to watch and 'try' and get a good shot, and the looks of fear when they just notice that you're there. heheh

I also agree with all that you said, I actually like it all, my most favorite thing and bird to shoot is a sparrow, (Not English Sparrows, etc.) I can't say why, but I love them, so I guess there's all kinds of nuts out there.

Randy

Duane N wrote in post #18268110
I can honestly say a lot of the photographers I know have no clue what makes a great photograph...but then again, a great photograph is subjective to the person seeing it or taking the picture. I'm sometimes asked what I think of a photograph someone else took or they personally took and because feelings get hurt with an honest answer (my opinion) I usually reply with "Do you like the photograph...if so, my opinion really doesn't matter." People often say to me they can't believe some of the images I delete and I try to explain to them why and they'll never understand.

I read a lot about what is right and what is wrong but in the end I have to do this hobby to make myself happy...if I'm not happy or challenged I move onto another hobby. I tend to shoot alone now so I'm able to pick and choose the images I'm after with the subject I'm photographing at the time and not worrying about messing someone else's shot up by me moving around trying different backgrounds and shooting angles.

Tom's example of patterns with the Red-headed Duck among the Coots is probably an image I would have passed on personally because there's too much going on. Yes, it has merit but not what I'm after with my images. I like to isolate my subject(s) free of distractions in the background, optimal light, low shooting angle when possible and some sort of eye contact. Most importantly some sort of unique pose/look and something that shows the behavior of what I'm photographing (mating, preening, drinking, bathing as examples).

As I read back on what I just typed I'm reminded of one of my favorite Snowy Owl images I've captured and have hanging in my home as a 24" X 36" print.

This image goes against everything I just said...no eye contact, bad light angle and a break in the background cutting through the middle of the owl but I love this image personally.

Go figure.

Edit: I haven't watched the video yet...maybe I need to set some time aside to do just that.

Like you, I really don't care to critique anybody's shots, most either don't understand or can't take it, and I understand that too, most have heard from their families and friends that they're wasting their time working at their normal job, they need to be shooting for National Geographic!

I love shooting alone, I'm hoping that is my choice and not because I am not liked. Really, I do most everything alone, travel, ride my motorcycle, shoot wildlife, it's way easier and a lot less stressful, although I do enjoy others company and the occasional person along.

I 100% agree with your description of this.
"I like to isolate my subject(s) free of distractions in the background, optimal light, low shooting angle when possible and some sort of eye contact"
That is what I wanted to say earlier, I didn't have the words in my head for some reason, thanks for wording it better.
Tom's shot made me realize that I need to stay on top of things, really look at what I am seeing. I love that shot, I more than likely would have passed at it too, but probably because I didn't 'see it'.
I remember back in the 70's when I first took up photography, a good friend of mine and I used to shoot 'anything' and then go to his darkroom to see what we had. I didn't have an eye for photography at all, I tried, but you can't make happen what is not there to be had. In time, and I knew this, but I would 'get it', well, hopefully, but I learned a few things and one was that I didn't have envy of his shots any longer, plus I had my own darkroom after that.
(I'm so glad that I wasn't into BiF back then, I would've committed suicide!)

Sometimes I struggle with which shot I want to show, I might have two that I like, one is like you said eyes aren't showing, etc., but the other has the eyes showing, each has their merits, I almost always go with the eyes, mostly because the life light is what I am drawn to, although the other shot is (possibly) equally as interesting.

That's a good shot of the Snowy, and I agree with you on it, it's artsy, moody, and it has all of the qualities that we all look for in a good shot.

Randy

Duane N wrote in post #18268155
OK, I watched the video and shared it on my FB page. Very informative video and I especially like the end about breaking the rules. I was told a long time ago by a professional photographer that rules are meant to be broken as long as you understand them.

Hey, at any time in our lives we can learn one thing, that's always a good thing, that is how I felt about that video, or both of 'em actually.

Randy