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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre People Talk 
Thread started 18 Jan 2017 (Wednesday) 08:15
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Very Good Composition Video...

 
recrisp
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Post edited over 1 year ago by recrisp.
     
Jan 18, 2017 08:15 |  #1

This video shows a LOT of interesting ways to help 'most' in their shots concerning subject placement, even if you think you know it all you may learn something. :)

Photo Composition is Simple!
https://www.facebook.c​om …/videos/1187102​998010849/ (external link)


Randy

I apologize about the link ONLY being on Facebook, you may not be able to see this if you aren't a Facebook member, I looked elsewhere but I could not find it.


OOPS! I meant to post this in People Talk instead of just People... Maybe a Mod will move it.


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Gungnir
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Jan 19, 2017 08:34 |  #2

https://youtu.be/7ZVyN​jKSr0M (external link)


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recrisp
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Jan 19, 2017 08:51 as a reply to  @ Gungnir's post |  #3

Thank you, Steve!
I appreciate that, I looked pretty good, but I was looking for that particular guy's video under his name, it didn't dawn on me to think that someone else put it on their YouTube. :)

Just in case if someone wonders, I do know there is this information in these forums here and I'm sure they are elsewhere too. For me, looking at this video shows it all in a very clear and concise way that it 'appears' to hit home better, especially for someone like me that has ADHD and can't look at very intricate videos or manuals. :)

Thanks again!

Randy


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Gungnir
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Jan 19, 2017 09:51 |  #4

It was just councidence I watched it on Youtube a few days ago :-)


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recrisp
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Jan 19, 2017 14:33 as a reply to  @ Gungnir's post |  #5

Did you find it helpful? I thought that whoever made it did a very good thing.
It made me aware of a couple things that I kind of knew but stuff I just can't remember or think about, hopefully it will stick in my mind better. :)

Randy


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Jan 19, 2017 16:14 |  #6

It's a typical Youtube vid designed to generate subscribers. Flings info at you without proper explanation.


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recrisp
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Jan 20, 2017 11:50 as a reply to  @ Gungnir's post |  #7

They are all that way... :)
Still though, it can open one's eyes to different ways, then that person can look it up about what was mentioned.

Thanks, Steve.

Randy


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airfrogusmc
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Jan 21, 2017 15:04 |  #8

Composition in terms of ones personal vision should not confined to silly rules.
I've posted this before but it is relevant here now.
A few words by some of the greats and a little video by one of the greats.
https://vimeo.com/1166​92462 (external link) It's short and really worth a watch.

And some words by some of the greats.

"When subject matter is forced to fit into preconceived patterns, there can be no freshness of vision. Following rules of composition can only lead to a tedious repetition of pictorial cliches." - Edward Weston

"There are no rules and regulations for perfect composition. If there were we would be able to put all the information into a computer and would come out with a masterpiece. We know that's impossible. You have to compose by the seat of your pants." - Arnold Newman

"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs." - Ansel Adams

"And in not learning the rules, I was free. I always say, you're either defined by the medium or you redefine the medium in terms of your needs." - Duane Michals

"There are no shortcuts, no rules." - Paul Strand

"Photography is not a sport. It has no rules. Everything must be dared and tried!" - Bill Brandt

"I came from the outside, the rules of photography didn't interest me... "-William Klein

" ...... a photograph can look any way. Or, there's no way a photograph has to look (beyond being an illusion of a literal description). Or, there are no external or abstract or preconceived rules of design that can apply to still photographs. " Garry Winogrand

and maybe my favorite which gets directly to this thread
" ......so called “composition” becomes a personal thing, to be developed along with technique, as a personal way of seeing." - Edward Weston




  
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Mar 25, 2017 08:00 |  #9

If you get to the end of the video, there is a nice graphic sequence that points out that rules were made to be broken.

Teaching video, I've worked long and hard on how to open the door for students.

These are conventions of a visual language. More guidelines than rules. You can and should extend that visual language in new ways. Knowing how we've interpreted the 3-dimensional world into 2 dimensions over 100 years of cinema is the start.

Typically in video production, we center our practice on viewer perceptions. They've learned a conventional visual language, too! Ignore that fact at your peril. This is an approach that treats conventional composition and storytelling as a craft, upon which you can build and extend further art. I don't think aspiring artists benefit from ignoring the craft. Learn it. Extend it. Break it. Do it with a sense of where the "rules" came from, why they exist, and why you're breaking them.

Certainly don't treat these conventions as rules that should be blindly followed, which is the sense in which I take the pithy quotes in the previous post.


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Mar 27, 2017 11:54 |  #10

Thanks to airfrogusmc who showed us something new!


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airfrogusmc
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Post edited over 1 year ago by airfrogusmc.
     
Mar 27, 2017 15:06 |  #11

I restate there are no rules and I love the quote by Duane Michals. (see it in post # 8)

If you want to shoot like everyone else and you want your work to look like everyone else then by all means learn and follow rules. As Weston said by following rules there can be no freshness of vision and Winogrand states the there are no rules of design that apply to still photographs. I'll go one further that I think rules like the RoTs does more to hurt new photographers than just about anything I can think of. It causes them to overlook photographic possibilities in their own work and they dismiss work of others that doesn't fit within those parameters.

I agree with Weston when he said that the way a photographer composes along with the way they process all becomes part of a personal way of seeing.

There is a reason that all the work you see today all looks the same. You can't tell one photographers work from the next. Just look around forum land. Part of the reason is RULES. Everybody shooting and following the same rules.




  
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Mar 27, 2017 16:16 |  #12

Respectfully.

I'm involved in a Career and Technical Education (CTE) college program. I have some related biases, in that we are, in part, preparing people for employment in the various industries of design, photography, video & film, multimedia, etc.

To be competitive in the employment marketplace, our students must know what they're doing, why they're doing it, what conventions they're meeting, what "rules" they're breaking and why, and be able to represent this knowledgeable approach to employers, stakeholders and clients.

Understanding and respect of the viewer is important, as is understanding and respect of sponsors, and the conventions.

The goals of fine arts photographers like Weston and Adams are sometimes a bit different, though I feel there's considerable overlap.

I like all the quotes in post #8. They're great. I've also had to fire a graphic designer who lost sight of her client's goals while pursuing her vision. I hope she found another job, she was a nice person, who had some talent, but got mixed up on who her work was for.

More power to airfrogusmc in pursuing and extending their vision, and advising other aspiring photogs to do the same. If your goal is to get satisfaction from your work that may be enough for you.

For me, satisfaction comes from connecting with others. Not everybody connects their vision with others. I'm sad that my wife didn't particularly like what I thought was my best shot last year.

My advice is for each of us to figure out what we're in it for, then pursue that. I was at an edu conference a few weeks ago, one of the professors said: "I think that students who want to do what they want all the time should stop paying tuition and go do it."

So, why learn photography? I'm sure there's as many answers as there are photogs. Those who want to connect with others through their work should learn these conventions. Not follow them blindly, but learn them!


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airfrogusmc
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Post edited over 1 year ago by airfrogusmc. (5 edits in all)
     
Mar 27, 2017 17:06 |  #13

Respectfully, I don't think that you get it.

I am a full time professional photographer. I do not shoot weddings or family portraits. I do photograph commercial/advertising and I have taught photography, part time, at the college level and I have a B/A in it. Minored in art. Have been supporting the family with it full time since graduating from college in 1986. Learning photography shouldn't be about learning stupid rules unless you want to be ordinary, the herd.

Learn to follow those rules if you want your work to look like everyone elses work and in my opinion and experience that is the one thing in both the art world and the commercial world that you don't want. If it looks like everyone elses work then there is truly nothing special about it and why would anyone pay your prices for it? It boils down to if you want to be part of the herd or not.

I'll repost this.
https://vimeo.com/1166​92462 (external link)




  
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SailingAway
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Mar 28, 2017 21:40 |  #14

airfrogusmc wrote in post #18312584 (external link)
Respectfully, I don't think that you get it.

I think I'm understanding your point of view and your practice. I think I get it. It's just that I disagree, based on my own experience and the development of my practice of teaching media production.

That's OK. We don't have to all be the same in our approach. My advice to anyone seeking schooling in photography (or anything else) is to find an instructor they can learn from and take everything they teach. It doesn't matter what it is. I have no doubt that if you and I were teaching in the same program, we'd see some students going this way or that way. That's fine.

The so-called rules should not be followed blindly. That would lead to a uniformity of expression that I wouldn't like. I tried to make that clear in my previous posts.

On the other hand, I've seen students so focused on their own vision that they flunk out, because they really have no idea how others are perceiving them or their work. In my experience that's a tragedy.

I saw a beautiful film on a local paper artist, Arnold Drake World. One of the things he said was: "You gotta' bring the beauty to the world that the world wants to see." I rather guess you're doing that, to enjoy success as a professional photographer!

airfrogusmc wrote in post #18312584 (external link)
I'll repost this.
https://vimeo.com/1166​92462 (external link)

A nice piece, and, a very legitimate expression of concern about blindly following so-called rules. I do note, though, that his work samples and the work of the videographers and editors of this clip do not ignore the conventions of photography, video, and sound. On the contrary, he points to the inspiration and style of centuries of painters in extending his vision, not ignoring what came before.

I do think we're getting a little caught up in the language here. Easy to do on an online forum.


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airfrogusmc
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Post edited over 1 year ago by airfrogusmc.
     
Mar 29, 2017 09:47 |  #15

SailingAway wrote in post #18313697 (external link)
I think I'm understanding your point of view and your practice. I think I get it. It's just that I disagree, based on my own experience and the development of my practice of teaching media production.

That's OK. We don't have to all be the same in our approach. My advice to anyone seeking schooling in photography (or anything else) is to find an instructor they can learn from and take everything they teach. It doesn't matter what it is. I have no doubt that if you and I were teaching in the same program, we'd see some students going this way or that way. That's fine.

The so-called rules should not be followed blindly. That would lead to a uniformity of expression that I wouldn't like. I tried to make that clear in my previous posts.

On the other hand, I've seen students so focused on their own vision that they flunk out, because they really have no idea how others are perceiving them or their work. In my experience that's a tragedy.

I saw a beautiful film on a local paper artist, Arnold Drake World. One of the things he said was: "You gotta' bring the beauty to the world that the world wants to see." I rather guess you're doing that, to enjoy success as a professional photographer!

A nice piece, and, a very legitimate expression of concern about blindly following so-called rules. I do note, though, that his work samples and the work of the videographers and editors of this clip do not ignore the conventions of photography, video, and sound. On the contrary, he points to the inspiration and style of centuries of painters in extending his vision, not ignoring what came before.

I do think we're getting a little caught up in the language here. Easy to do on an online forum.

Some of the quotes I have posted are from some of the greatest photographers but what do they know? Also they found their own ways of seeing which includes composing. When you look at a Weston print ya kinda know it's a Weston. Just like when you see a Newman portrait ya know it's a Newman.

I think rules like the rule of thirds (and which rule do you go by, a rule of 5ths or as it is also referred to 4/5ths that many landscape photographers adapted which pushes the interest out closer to the edges?) I feel do more to hurt photographers than it does to help because it doesn't allow artists to explore what might be there way of composing and as Weston said becomes part of a personal way of seeing.

Again if you want to be part of the herd then by all means do what the herd does. Get a focusing screen that has the RoTs etched in it and rock on.

As the greats that I posted all stated when talking about composition... There are no rules.




  
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Very Good Composition Video...
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