Someone wants Permission to use my photo in a book.. is this right?

This is the picture

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/ruxc​Lx

its is a "famous " bar/lounge in Harlem ,, 125th street .. been there for seventy something years .. jazz bar .. former speak easy

closed a couple of years ago.. due to changes in neighborhood and doubling of rent

That's too bad about the closure and rent... Many many long-time cool little bars and hangouts have fallen victim to today's economy.

Very interesting pic, and I am quite sure you are safe. Street shot, not immediately identifiable, and the use of the photo would be editorial use inside the book showing life in NY. Also, you are not publishing the book, somebody else is, and they are ultimately responsible for using a photo with or without the release, based on everything I have read. The best advice, given by Nathan, is ask a local legal firm that knows about first amendment rights to see what they think. However they will have to know what the use of the book is for though, since it isn't enough to just say the person is identifiable, it comes down to the use and intent of the photo.

As to freely handing it over, or trying to be reimbursed at all, ultimately that is your decision of where you want to take your photography and the purpose of those photos.

If I were a professional photographer, I'd take Dan's advice and not work for free unless everyone else on the project were worrking for free.
I'm not a professional and realize that I probably won't have many opportunities to be published. I hope that I wouldn't let the opportunity pass me by, even if it means no compensation. Maybe after two or three freebies, I'd hold out for some cash.

Thats some wehre along the lines of what i'm thinking..

i'm no pro...
i followed in the foot steps of Ralph Kramden.. i'm a proffesional Bus Operator for NYCT MTA.. thats what pays my bills

i have dreams of maybe some day doing portraits for money.. ive been practicing.. still need more practice lol.. been working on video skills to.. music videos.. have done a couple super low budget stuff.. maybe someday between those two i can stop driving a bus..

street photography , i just like to walk around for hours at a time .. and watch people .. try and capture moments ..
i dont really think that i will make a living selling my "Art"
i just post them on flickr or instagram.. and hope people enjoy , and if they enjoy enough to not just click to view but to also make a comment .. well thats just icing on the cake

that particlular picture is not one that got alot of attention on flickr .. maybe this would be an opportunity for it to have a second chance..

Larry Johnson wrote in post #18250447
If I were a professional photographer, I'd take Dan's advice and not work for free unless everyone else on the project were worrking for free.
I'm not a professional and realize that I probably won't have many opportunities to be published. I hope that I wouldn't let the opportunity pass me by, even if it means no compensation. Maybe after two or three freebies, I'd hold out for some cash.

Another thought in line with this. Perhaps talk with the publisher and see if they intend on doing other NY books, and if so, maybe get your foot in the door here offering this one photo at no cost, but with the understanding that if they want more pictures later for other publications, there would be a small fee per photo. You could try to capture specific scenes in advance to jumpstart that initiative, and if this book is successful, they may be more open to paying small amounts the next time?

If you were considering just handing it over anyways, why not try this approach? It might give you more photos to be published later, and give you a bit of cash as well, and build up a professional relationship that could be leveraged further later.

For any legal questions in the future, take a look at the link I provided earlier and print out that release form, put several copies in your wallet, and in cases where you are specifically doing a portrait with a person on the street, you could approach them to see if they would like to sign the release. You could give them a link to your flickr account too so they could access that photo themselves, as a trade. I think this is overkill for public/street photography, but it is a level of protection, and if you want to sell a photo later, that organization will probably require the release to be safe, so it could make a difference in the sale of a photo.

rantercsr wrote in post #18250450
Thats some wehre along the lines of what i'm thinking..

i'm no pro...
i followed in the foot steps of Ralph Kramden.. i'm a proffesional Bus Operator for NYCT MTA.. thats what pays my bills

i have dreams of maybe some day doing portraits for money.. ive been practicing.. still need more practice lol.. been working on video skills to.. music videos.. have done a couple super low budget stuff.. maybe someday between those two i can stop driving a bus..

street photography , i just like to walk around for hours at a time .. and watch people .. try and capture moments ..
i dont really think that i will make a living selling my "Art"
i just post them on flickr or instagram.. and hope people enjoy , and if they enjoy enough to not just click to view but to also make a comment .. well thats just icing on the cake

that particlular picture is not one that got alot of attention on flickr .. maybe this would be an opportunity for it to have a second chance..

It looks like you are pretty much decided. One last word of warning about the release. Editorial use requires no release, but if they end up using your image for promotion the possibility, however remote, of legal trouble is quite real. Assuming the guy in the photo spots himself or is made aware that he is in a photo and someone suggests that a legal suit would suddenly brighten his future with two billion dollars, a la Chipotle v. Crazy Woman, what would happen? The publisher gets an attorney letter and he's gonna say 'it's the PHOTOGRAPHER's fault, as it was his responsibility to secure releases!' Then you get served. Not only were you paid ZILCH but now you must cough up big money to have a lawyer defend you.

Legal matters aside, what kind of publisher is this one? Small time publisher? Major publishing house? Self-publisher? Vanity-press? Their size determines their budgetary constrains. There might be a good reason why they want free photos: they simply do not have the budget to be compensating every contributor. For example, the fact that they want to convert the image to black and white hints at grayscale printing, with maybe a few inset coloured pages in the middle. This denotes a smaller budget. Publishing a book is not cheap. If this book is for a niche market, or if they aren't a big publisher, they might make little to no revenue on the venture, or might even lose money. I'd be more willing to 'help out' a small publisher who really has little to spend on a project, than a medium to large one that CAN pay for images but prefers to rip photographers off.

Wilt wrote in post #18250339
But the topic at that IS the use of the photo, according to the stated terms, for

1. inclusion in US and foreign printing and reprints, with some editing of the photo allowed AND
   
2. for advertising, publicity and promotion of the book
   

...and the second use is NOT permitted simply by the photographer signing the paper!

Nathan wrote in post #18250355
Wilt is correct. If the individual is clearly identifiable, then a model release would be needed for the image to be used for advertising, publicity and promotion of the book. I'm less certain about whether the publication of the image within the pages of a book that is being sold to audiences constitutes a commercial purpose... I'm inclined to believe that it is.

You put yourself at risk by signing the agreement stating, "you are the sole owner of the rights granted herein." The publishers here insulate themselves with that line, putting the blame on you should the person depicted on the photo ever wishes to go after you for selling and using their face.

If the OP wants to give the images to the publisher for free,. then this has no impact on the OP at all. Any possible legal concerns re: publishing the image in a book without a model release would be 100% on the publisher. Not on the photographer, no?

In fact I would argue that this concern eliminates the possibility of the image being used for marketing reasons anyways, making the decision easier for the OP as his image is not going to be used to market the book.

Alveric wrote in post #18250598
.... Assuming the guy in the photo spots himself or is made aware that he is in a photo and someone suggests that a legal suit would suddenly brighten his future with two billion dollars, a la Chipotle v. Crazy Woman, what would happen? ....

He and his lawyer would both "follow the money" and pursue a suit that might be winnable, by suing the publishing company that committed the violation.


I don't know guys, this thread reads to me like a lot of seeing ghosts, aliens, and conspiracy theories into a much more mundane situation.

I agree. You can hunt down a problem with most anything. Dig deep enough and there is always some kind of dirt.

But nobody is ever going to make megabucks out of that shot (or the book it might be published in) and what's the point in trying to squeeze out a few dollars? The OP doesn't make his living from photography and doesn't seem to be aiming to.

As a keen enthusiast, it is going to feel really good to have an image published ... and to have the living proof there in the book sitting on his coffee table. Plus ... the subject of the book is a theme that resonates with the photographer.

There's a small risk here ... but that's life. 'Take it' would be my (totally unqualified) advice.

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18250611
He and his lawyer would both "follow the money" and pursue a suit that might be winnable, by suing the publishing company that committed the violation.

I don't know guys, this thread reads to me like a lot of seeing ghosts, aliens, and conspiracy theories into a much more mundane situation.

And if anybody would bother to read up on the legal cases that have come up, and also the protections afforded through the first amendment, or the links I provided, one would know there is no risk with that photo. Public street, the person isn't immediately identifiable, put 10 guys in a line up and tell us which one is the one in the hooded jacket from that 4x6 or 5x7 photo in that book, and the fact that the publisher is the one that holds all the risk if he/she were to use that to promote anything. Again, read through the Stanford University posts, or the past judgements, they are all available for public reading. We have too many people that can't help but to rain on others' parades.

I hope we are kept up to date on this, it would be cool to see what book ends up being published with that photo in it.

I miss the POTN coffee table books we used to have here. I have a couple of them, and was blessed to have some of my own photos in it. It is nice being able to have those out and have people look through them. The photos by all the POTN members were simply outstanding and mesmerizing. I know it was alot of work by the mods though, like Lester and others.

Looks like we can still buy them:
http://www.blurb.com …ch=Photography+​on+the+net

so,,
i took some of teamspeed advice..

i gave permission for use of the photos ..
and i expressed interest in the work he's doing.. i'm a huge fan of history , especially New york history..
and so if there was any further interest in anything current or specific he were looking for something could be worked out.

Hopefully my picture does end up being used .. and if so , cant wait to recieve my copy of the book


i'll update this thread as anything else comes along

as far as the legal stuff .. i'm really not worried ..

thanks all for the advice and opinions , very much appreciated

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18250819
...

Looks like we can still buy them:
http://www.blurb.com …ch=Photography+​on+the+net

Wow, blast from the past!

FYI the book committee was not the mods. Some ended up as mods, but this really was all member driven. I think we had a mod on the committee just to help with Admin stuff. Like I said, some of them ended up as mods though. Such hard workers

I am shocked, somehow I missed volume 4 completely!

Update to this in case anyone is interested

The book...

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/XoS5​6t

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/XoS5​gD

Very cool......... anymore photos go out to the author for additional books?