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Thread started 01 Feb 2017 (Wednesday) 16:27
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Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds @ International Convention Centre Sydney, January ’17

 
BJWOK
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Feb 01, 2017 16:27 |  #1

Media photographers were only given 1 song from side of stage and behind a designated line to shoot Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds.

Here's why I think this is a good idea: https://youtu.be/ox55d​A1iyFs (external link)

There's more over at my site:

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01.

IMAGE: http://photographybybjwok.zenfolio.com/img/s11/v37/p2192211574-5.jpg

02.

IMAGE: http://photographybybjwok.zenfolio.com/img/s10/v105/p2192211553-6.jpg

03.

IMAGE: http://photographybybjwok.zenfolio.com/img/s10/v98/p2192211572-5.jpg

04.

IMAGE: http://photographybybjwok.zenfolio.com/img/s10/v105/p2192211571-5.jpg

My name is Benon (BJWOK are my initials) :)
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Feb 01, 2017 19:36 |  #2

I gotta ask; what was the music like? From the pictures with suit coat, sheet music, sitting on a chair it could have been a poetry recital. Crowd looks a bit subdued too. :)


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limping_decorum
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Feb 03, 2017 18:56 as a reply to  @ BushWacker's post |  #3

bushwacker...if you should get the chance to see him...the show will probably remain in your top three shows forever...

go to youtube and look up nick cave "oh my lord"...good idea of crowd interaction...


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limping_decorum
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Feb 03, 2017 19:13 |  #4

bjwok....did you stay for the show?

if so....how much time did he spend on the road cases in front of the stage...or crawling on top of the first two rows of people?


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BJWOK
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Feb 03, 2017 19:17 |  #5

Yeah the above comments are correct - the show was incredible. He spent nearly the entire set in the crowd or on the barrier. This first song was no indication of what was to follow.

I'd agree too, one of the better shows I've seen.


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BushWacker
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Feb 04, 2017 03:22 |  #6

Yes looks like my kind of show for sure. Great sound, variety of instruments and a lot of intense emotion. I've heard the name but had no idea of what the music is about. I did notice a lot of people smoking in the crowd, god I hate that. I'm spoiled I guess they don't allow that at any of the local venues in this region, thank goodness...


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BJWOK
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Feb 04, 2017 04:13 |  #7

Do you mean smoking in the crowd in my shots? I didn't notice that?


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Feb 06, 2017 03:21 as a reply to  @ BJWOK's post |  #8

No not in your shots on the YouTube video's I looked up at your suggestion. Most of the venues I shoot at have banned smoking and it's easy to get used to. It used to be most of them allowed it and you don't realize how bad it is until you don't have it any more...


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Feb 06, 2017 04:14 as a reply to  @ BushWacker's post |  #9

Oh ok, I see. Yeah I'm the same. Every time I'm in a venue in Germany it blows me away that smoking is still permitted!


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Feb 06, 2017 11:34 |  #10

yeah, Nick's a real prick when it comes to concert photographers (one subdued song from a crappy location, and then he unleashes hell from the 2nd song out). you did what you could.

i did enjoy your vlog,but smaller bands can't afford a tour photog and need press. so it wasn't surprising when Black Sabbath didn't issue any passes for their final tour as they had Haflin and someone else shoot all the shows and make the photos available for press usage. i can see more larger acts adopting this strategy.


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Feb 06, 2017 15:11 |  #11

There is a balance between wanting publicity and not needing it. Of course the biggest names don't need "media" photographers if they are making millions already. Beyonce for instance gave us 45 seconds of 1 song, all from the same spot so all the shots literally looked the same, while some other big names don't allow media at all. The other extreme are the up and coming artists that want and appreciate all the publicity they can get. A classic example for me was shooting Burton Cummings, one of the biggest artists in his prime. He came out and said Please shoot all the photo's you want, I don't understand why artists don't want photo's to be taken of them. Just be polite and don't step in front of others to get your shot.

The question becomes, how did the big names get big in the first place? They all started out somewhere and needed and should have appreciated the publicity (both paid and free) that they received on the road to the top. Once they get big they are too quick to discard the very same people that got them there. Many if not most media photographers are basically fans and like to help promote the artists they like. It's nice to see artists like Burton Cummings that has not lost the appreciation for the media promotions they receive and allow us in the media to continue to promote their success. Personally if they don't want me there I don't want to be there either, I'm not the type to be "starstruck" and drool over the big names. I can appreciate their talent but there are plenty of lesser known talents out there that need all the publicity they can get so I focus my efforts towards them instead....


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Feb 06, 2017 16:34 as a reply to  @ BushWacker's post |  #12

The other issue playing into all this is that where live photography once was a "profession" and practiced by a smaller percentage of the population, anyone can now shoot a decent live photo of any band.

I believe the market is saturated and only going to get worse unless something changes.

Tim, your point about Sabbath is exactly what I'm saying should be happening. The bigger bands dictate to the smaller bands the "path" to follow, for example every young band up and coming wants to be "as big as the foo fighters" (or whoever they look up to), so they should be employing the same practices of those bands. A tour photographer for a smaller scale band doesn't need to be paid what Mr Halfin is paid by Metallica or what Mr Bergman is paid by Bon Jovi as there isn't that amount of money floating around (I know direct hand from my touring with Tracer!) but there needs to be a movement towards re-evaluating where the available money is being spent. I've seen PR companies take more money from a tour than the entire band in total (on the smaller scale). Do your own PR, pay a photographer to handle all press shots and all social media. Why do we need a PR company for this? Everyone has the capacity and reach to do this themselves.

Bush, your comment about how did the big names get where they are, if we take Metallica for one we can see a thread where Mr Halfin has been onboard the whole time. And they are one of the biggest in the world. They developed a relationship and nurtured it.

Media photographers (myself included) are a dying concept.

I look forward to change and artists paying photographers.

Like I've said before I would be happy to start a network that is working towards this concept, but it would take a bunch of seriously committed people to get it started.


My name is Benon (BJWOK are my initials) :)
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Feb 06, 2017 23:18 |  #13

Great points and it's so true that media in general is in a rapidly changing era. I've never made a living at it so I can't speak as a true professional, I'm lucky enough to be able to buy some camera equipment and I'm happy with that. The thing to point out for this thread is that I noticed in the photo's you were allowed to take for this event that these pictures here really don't represent the artist accurately. If that's what they want then they are certainly getting it, I'm just questioning their decision to only allow this. Great input, thanks for letting me chime in...


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Feb 06, 2017 23:56 as a reply to  @ BushWacker's post |  #14

It's a great point - these shots don't represent a Nick Cave show at all really, but when you are as big as he is there is no need for photos at all. And that's why a lot of larger (think Sabbath) bands simply say no to media.

Don't get me wrong, I'm going to continue shooting as a media photog where I can, but my real focus is touring with Tracer as their tour photog as not only do you engage in an entirely different style of gig photography, but it's life changing and a thousand fold more rewarding that 3 from the pit and out.


My name is Benon (BJWOK are my initials) :)
www.bjwok.com (external link) <<-- NEW LIGHTROOM CC & LIGHTROOM CC CLASSIC PRESETS FOR MUSIC PHOTOGRAPHERS
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Feb 07, 2017 10:15 |  #15

i think the era of the big band is over, and we are seeing the tail end of it... U2, Metallica, all those massive bands who built themselves over years of touring and heavy MTV and radio play are coming to an end.

there will always be a handful of massively popular music acts (ie, the Taylor Swifts, Kanyes, Rihannas, Jason Aldeans, etc) and then there are the ones that suddenly rise and then in a few years from now will be residing in the 'where are they now file' (hello, 21 Pilots). with the possible exception of country music i don't see a lot of those w/ any sort of lasting power... sure maybe they'll have a few hit songs but not for a decade or longer. those days are over.


so, what's my point? good question! at the starting level, all music acts need publicity and photos are part and parcel to that. and with revenue streams via music sales getting worse and worse, the money to get a band out on the road means that the band members, their lawyer/manager, booking agent, guitar tech, sound guy and merch person are the absolute necessities. hiring a tour photographer isn't at that same level. which is why bands and their managers/publicists love to crowd-source stuff for instagram/facebook/etc​. it's free, why wouldn't they!

so while i do agree that the bigger the band, the less they need generic press covering it (and really, if they are interested in selling tickets, previewing the show is way more important than coverage of a past event), it's not really gonna apply to a lot of bands (or at least the main percentage of the ones i am interested in covering).

i am not in a position to tour w/ a band as i've got a day job that i need to cover my mortgage and family expenses, etc. but maybe at some day! in the meantime, i'm happy w/ covering bands who blow through town, or the occasional trip to a festival somewhere.


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Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds @ International Convention Centre Sydney, January ’17
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