Interesting insight into the fall of Brick & Mortar camera stores

https://petapixel.com …store-fails-many-closing/


Good article on the closing of Showcase camera in Atlanta. It's a tough business. Was sad to read about Keeble & Shuchat in Palo Alto closing, I lived a few blocks from them during the 20 years I spent at Stanford, visited them many, many times.

rick_reno wrote in post #18290332
https://petapixel.com …store-fails-many-closing/


Good article on the closing of Showcase camera in Atlanta. It's a tough business. Was sad to read about Keeble & Shuchat in Palo Alto closing, I lived a few blocks from them during the 20 years I spent at Stanford, visited them many, many times.

Very interesting, Rick.

We had a great camera shop here in Gainesville, FL when we moved here in 2004. I've had several long chats with the owner. He didn't go into all the details with me but did say, sales tax was what did him in. He could compete with the NYC stores but only if you didn't count the sales tax. People would show up and do their testing and info gathering at Harmin's... then buy online to save the sales tax. They closed down their large retail store and now have a much smaller space that sells accessories and does a lot of quality printing.

I always call Allen's Camera Shop in PA before I buy anything photo related. They are nice people and have a decent online presence. I know both Adorama and B&H are great options as well, but I give Allen's a chance first.

Phoenixkh wrote in post #18290356
Very interesting, Rick.

We had a great camera shop here in Gainesville, FL when we moved here in 2004. I've had several long chats with the owner. He didn't go into all the details with me but did say, sales tax was what did him in. He could compete with the NYC stores but only if you didn't count the sales tax. People would show up and do their testing and info gathering at Harmin's... then buy online to save the sales tax. They closed down their large retail store and now have a much smaller space that sells accessories and does a lot of quality printing.

I always call Allen's Camera Shop in PA before I buy anything photo related. They are nice people and have a decent online presence. I know both Adorama and B&H are great options as well, but I give Allen's a chance first.

I always try to give my local brick and mortar stores my business as I like to touch the equipment and see how it feels before I purchase it, the more expensive the item is the more I want to see and hold the product. If too many people purchase items online for sometimes very small savings we will lose the ability to do this. I know that it's a sign of the times as my children are always trying to get me to purchase things from on line sites.
I find the same thing with cell phones and people texting I feel that they lose the emotional connection with the people they are communicating with as the way someone says something sometimes has a meaning that you can't get that typing.

People flock to bargains. The small stores fall victim of everyone going to the big warehouse stores or shopping online.
You want service and advice, you go to the neighborhood hardware store, but you want the best price you ignore the neighborhood store and go to the big warehouse store where there is little advice and information. I warned about the above over a decade ago, but generally got pooh-pooh'd as the reaction. Few cared about local stores disappearing, with the comments that poor staff product knowledge fed the don't-care attitude about the local store disappearance. Now even the knowledgeable stores like Keeble and Schuchat disappear, too.

The Petapixel article was interesting to learn about how national rebates come partly out of the pockets of the stores, and the manufacturer /distributor only covers part of the discounting.

"The third unsustainable issue is that manufacturers have come up with a marketing strategy that involves rebates, often referred to as instant rebates, when we take them out immediately...I have to file various documents on a timely basis and hope that they honor and fill those requests in a timely basis. That could be weeks to months so in a fact they’re holding my money for weeks to months.

"Now when they reimburse me for the $200 instant rebate they do not reimburse me 100%. The way it works is they reimburse me 80%, so it’s an 80-20 arrangement where the manufacturer reimburses me $160 and I’ve essentially given up $40 of my money on the sale.”

So the dealer has to suffer from the reduced cash at the time of sale, then wait for the rebate processing, causing cashflow issues...on a discounted sale forced upon them.

Sad about Keeble and Schuchat...I got a lot of good information from the staff, could handle all the gear, and could pick and choose my own combinations of lighting bits and pieces to cobble up customized solutions to specific problems I faced, and gladly bought a lot of gear there.

Also interesting insight about how photo printing used to be a major source of revenue in the film days, and that dried up with digital. And the foot traffic into the store, with return visits, also dried up!

Interesting read.

Same thing happened to Calumet Photographic here in the Chicago area.
The last 3 stores finally closed in January 2016 and although it was sad to see them go, they just didn't have the selection that B&H or Adorama has.

I hate to see the small guys go but then I am totally guilty of hastening along the process. The information they posses is nothing compared to the info you can get online and as the equipment is identical, price becomes the deciding factor. The brick and mortar guys just failed to see the future and failed to adapt. Sad to see them go but those stuck working an outdated business model will perish.

Not that simplistic, even with a good website they're at a massive disadvantage as they're paying a premium for a store, not a discounted lock up, cheap out of town warehouse or operating from a home.

welshwizard1971 wrote in post #18295430
Not that simplistic, even with a good website they're at a massive disadvantage as they're paying a premium for a store, not a discounted lock up, cheap out of town warehouse or operating from a home.

B&H and Adorama have a brick and mortar site as well but I'm guessing that the bulk of their sales is internet. I think most of the on-line sites have a B&M location except maybe the scam sites who seem to be located out of a warehouse of home.

What we have no idea about is the discounting that distributors give to stores, based upon annual volume sold. So when we hear about '5-10% margins' (as mentioned in the link), that might only apply to the small stores, whereas the big volume stores are enjoying larger discounts from MSRP so they have better margins even at their lower selling price!

gjl711 wrote in post #18295399
The brick and mortar guys just failed to see the future and failed to adapt.

There is/was a brick & mortar camera store near where I grew up in Pennsylvania. The thing they did great at was printing. They had 'pro pricing' available to professional photographers, and their rates were right there with the best prices you could find online, even though they put a lot of time and personal attention into every print order that they processed. Of course, they did all of the printing right there in house.

The problem is that they have not adapted to the new products that many photographers want. They don't print really large sizes. They don't print on canvas. They don't print on metal. They don't offer acrylic prints. They won't even mount prints onto black styrene, or dibond, or even foam core, for you.

Although they do a really great job with quality printing, they still only offer prints on photo paper. That's it. Want anything else, too bad - gotta go somewhere else to get it. This is a shame for me because I really liked using them for prints when I was in town, but now I no longer have any desire for regular prints on photo paper, and especially not ones as small as 16 by 24 inches. I want really big prints on metal, on canvas, and on acrylic. Or at least professionally mounted on styrene, so that I don't have to do the mounting and laminating myself. But they will not offer any of that.

So they have not adapted to the changing marketplace, even with printing, which was the one area where they had a chance to out-compete their online competitors. I don't know if they are still in business or not, as it has been a few years since I have been back to PA. But it wouldn't surprise me if they no longer exist. If they can't offer a good price on anything I want, not even prints, then why would I, or anyone else, continue to feed them business?

.

gjl711 wrote in post #18295399
I hate to see the small guys go but then I am totally guilty of hastening along the process. The information they posses is nothing compared to the info you can get online and as the equipment is identical, price becomes the deciding factor. The brick and mortar guys just failed to see the future and failed to adapt. Sad to see them go but those stuck working an outdated business model will perish.

I think this is a great point. For amateurs especially, the shared knowledge available on the internet at places like POTN just dwarfs what even the best store can provide locally.

And the not-so-great local stores have really gotten the beating they deserved. I remember going in to audio stores when I was a teenager and young adult and being treated like I didn't matter. Ask a question and with luck get some arrogant response. Those guys are all gone now, and the internet retailers don't judge you based on age or appearance. Same thing happened to me when I got in to photography a decade later. Local shop pushing Nikon. Acted like I was an idiot for asking about Canon. They've been closed down for a while now. I bought my first Canon on line.

mpix345 wrote in post #18296791
I think this is a great point. For amateurs especially, the shared knowledge available on the internet at places like POTN just dwarfs what even the best store can provide locally.

And the not-so-great local stores have really gotten the beating they deserved. I remember going in to audio stores when I was a teenager and young adult and being treated like I didn't matter. Ask a question and with luck get some arrogant response. Those guys are all gone now, and the internet retailers don't judge you based on age or appearance. Same thing happened to me when I got in to photography a decade later. Local shop pushing Nikon. Acted like I was an idiot for asking about Canon. They've been closed down for a while now. I bought my first Canon on line.

We still have a great audio store, privately owned. All the staff is knowledgeable as well as helpful. They had to supplement their audio sales with installation of various things. For instance, they will wire new construction for high end audio, etc. They will also fish wires in completed homes. That now accounts for around 70% of their income. The owner is there every day unless he's out doing estimates, etc.

They also take a lot of equipment in trade, so their used department is nice. I traded some Mac car stereo stuff for a very nice Pioneer Elite TV a few years ago.

There's a local store near me that's been there for a while and, for the life of me, I can't figure out how they've stayed open. The staff has always been very condescending to their customers, as if we are the ones putting them out from their important jobs of standing around, and they keep all their inventory behind cases so you can't casually check out new equipment.

we have one as well and their pricing is out of control. so much cheaper to just get it online through the normal trusted retailers.

heck.. they go on ebay to see what something sells for when they buy from you.. then offer you 30-40% less than what it sell for...

so i just use them to test things out since they have it all setup.... that is where i tested the 7d m2 with 18-35 1.8 (which i will get eventually) also the 50-500

Unfortunately location hurts the situation as well. I've been to Showcase in ATL and done a little business with them over the years. Pricing isn't so much the issue as distance. 1.5 hours of driving each way cuts into the schedule quite harshly. Still, I hate to see people such as Showcase going out of business. I don't think however it is entirely due to not being able to compete.

I'm into bicycling pretty heavy. Just like photography I could buy almost any item online, get it a little cheaper and in some cases...faster. I choose to do business with a local bike shop however because I believe in supporting the local economy and the shop itself does a great job of having a selection you are comfortable choosing from (like Conago). Photography is a different landscape in that respect. Locally, there is or was a Wolf Camera but frankly (although I've used them for a few things) they generally don't have what you are looking for, and it takes them too long to get it at a higher price. Also, the knowledge level doesn't seem as high as what you could fine on this forum as an example.

That leaves self research and online retailers. I've done business with B&H for years, and they have never let me down. A few other online retailers as well, but the bulk has been B&H. Lee filters for example. If you want a Lee filter, you would be hard pressed to find one in a local shop. You might find a limited supply of Cokin, but I've never seen a Lee in a shop (and I've looked).