Shooting 5,000 products

They need to give you multiple examples of what they want the final images to look like. Achieving a truely white background is not a simple task.

I do this type of photography and can tell you that getting close in camera is one thing, but the last bit between straight out of camera and editing (even just cropping) every stinking picture is the difference between a couple of minutes per shot and half an hour.

For instance, who is going to name the photos

What is the name going to be?

How are the multiple views named?

DaviSto wrote in post #18314685
If this, which makes good sense, then how best to keep cataloguing and matching the labels to the products? This needs to be a very simple straightforward process or you are either going to lose a lot of time on paperwork while shooting or on trying to tie everything together later.

Would just making sure that the clocks in the two cameras are exactly synchronised be enough? Then everything would automatically be grouped sequentially by time of shot once transferred to computer.

I've no experience to draw on here ... just musing.

Lightroom can make pretty short work of this.

If you're certain that the times on the camera clocks are synchronized, just sort by capture time, and (if desired) rename them once they're in that order so it doesn't matter what camera they came from.

If the times aren't perfectly synchronized, Lightroom can update the capture time metadata for one of the cameras, but you'll first have to calculate how much the times are off. As long as you're within a couple seconds, it should be fine. Filter to show all the photos from the camera with the incorrect time, then fix it:
https://www.lightroomq​ueen.com/time-camera-incorrect-change/

Dan Marchant wrote in post #18314613
I would suggest including the cost of renting a second camera/macro lens. The first camera is used to shoot the main packaging shots and the second is used to shoot the close up label shot without having to mess about changing lenses or settings on the first camera.

Not only a second camera with a lens that is able to focus close enough, but also that it is mounted on a second tripod so that the first camera+lens-tripod can be left in place undisturbed and the photographer shift a bit to one side to shoot the closeup nutritional information that is on the product turned to the second camera! Think 'mass production line'

DaviSto wrote in post #18314685
If this, which makes good sense, then how best to keep cataloguing and matching the labels to the products? This needs to be a very simple straightforward process or you are either going to lose a lot of time on paperwork while shooting or on trying to tie everything together later.

Would just making sure that the clocks in the two cameras are exactly synchronised be enough? Then everything would automatically be grouped sequentially by time of shot once transferred to computer.

I've no experience to draw on here ... just musing.

I would simply keep a 'log' of the first camera and second camera shots...camera2 shot number, product name & size package.
If you were smart, you'd use a laptop with microphone and voice input into word processor or spreadsheet, organized into groupings for ease of cross referencing or finding, with sufficient information on each line that it can be reasonably used in cross referencing

"shot group March 29, 8am to 8:30am"
"camera 1, 100-8933 to 8935, Libby's kernel corn 14oz
"camera 2, 101-4754, nutritional information Libby corn
"camera 1, 100-8936 to 8939, DelMonte kernel corn 14 oz
"camera 2, 101-4755, nutrional information DelMonte corn
"camera 1, 100-8940 to 8942, generic brand creamed corn, 14 oz"
"camera 2, 101-4756, nutrional information generic creamed corn
"shot group March 29, 8:30am to 9:00am"
"camera 1, 100-8943 to 8945, Kellogs corn flakes, 18 oz"
"camera 2, 101-4757, nutrional information Kellogs corn flakes

...little time is spent writing or keyboarding, just dictate what you want captured with the voice input as you are arranging the product for the shot.

If you were real smart, you shoot tethered and name the shots/files as you go.

My point above is that you actually have to do it. If you can place and shoot a product in a minute, but it takes another 20-30 seconds to make sure you have the correct name, it's going to take fifty percent longer.


What about finger prints or crappy pachaging? Who is responsible for that?

The list is way longer than one would think until you actually do the stuff. I'd go into my pantry and grab ten unique items and see how long it takes. I bet you spend a day with the set up the very first time.

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18314809
If you were real smart, you shoot tethered and name the shots/files as you go.

My point above is that you actually have to do it. If you can place and shoot a product in a minute, but it takes another 20-30 seconds to make sure you have the correct name, it's going to take fifty percent longer.


What about finger prints or crappy pachaging? Who is responsible for that?

The list is way longer than one would think until you actually do the stuff. I'd go into my pantry and grab ten unique items and see how long it takes. I bet you spend a day with the set up the very first time.

I can just hear it...
(client) "what do you mean you have been setting this all up for the last 3 hours and you haven't taken any real photos?!"

Totally takes longer than you think.. and we haven't talked about anything shiney or reflective yet....

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18314809
What about finger prints or crappy pachaging? Who is responsible for that?.

Yeah, exactly. This is why an assistant who is familiar with the store is absolutely a requirement.

When you're setting up a boxed item, and once it's on the set you see that the edge of the box is dented or the printing is off, how long does it take you to go find a replacement? The next one on the shelf is dinged too, looks like maybe the whole case might have gotten banged up in transit. How long did you spend looking? Your time spent on that single item has increased by an order of magnitude already, and you haven't taken a single shot of the item.

Next go try to find a photo-ready bunch of bananas on the shelf. Good luck.

I would definitely NOT run away from this job. I would actually love to have this land in my lap.

This is definitely a multi camera, multi setup and multi day production. This is how I would approach this project;

• I would have my picker/stylist (or me) along with their rep go through their stock to pick out clean, undamaged items and carefully pack them into cardboard boxes for transport to my studio.
  
• A master shoot list would need to be created that contains whatever info the client needs on each image (item name, SKU #, size, etc.)
  
• I would have a permanent set up for the overall product shots and a second set up for the label shots. These will be drop and pop set ups.
  
• I would also have a second shooter and one or two assistants (preferably two).
  
• The client would also have to provide one or two of their own workers to transport and handle their products. That means trucking and conveying the food cases in and out of the studio and being a liaison to the client (if needed).
  
• Everything would be shot tethered and processed during the shoot using Lightroom or Capture One to minimize post processing and to catalog everything. That's the nice thing with automation.
  
• Shoots would be grouped into 'like items' to minimize set changes (i.e. canned goods, boxed goods, bagged goods, produce, etc.)
  

• I wouldn't worry about licensing fees as that would be a nightmare. Product packaging tends to change from year to year on a lot of items anyway. That and the adding/removing products from rotation. But that's me. I don't want to try tracking 5,000+ items for renewal.
  
• I would price it according to these three points;
  
  • Day fees for everyone involved in the shoot (photographers, stylist, assistants, etc.)
    
  • A per shot fee, as this can vary from shoot day to shoot day. Some products go faster than others. This is easy (you deliver 500 images, you charge for 500 images).
    
  • Equipment rental and miscellaneous expense fees to cover the permanent setup for the extent of the project and any sundry expenses.
    
• A deposit would be required for any fees you can't cover before the client pays you (any equipment you have to rent, staff fees, production costs, etc.)
  

^^^ great insight.

Actual time spent shooting is a fraction of the time involved with something like this, which is what I was poorly, and partially trying to illustrate.

Once you start digging, you tend to find lots of rocks that get in your way and need to be worked around.

If the potential client in question is really going to do this right he is spending tens of thousands of dollars on the website and marketing. I bet he wants to spend a dollar a product and be done with it. That is fantasy.


Off topic, but has this person heard of Amazon? Sounds like someone who either has more money than sense, or neither of the two. I hope for the OP's sake it is the former.

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18315276
[The OP's prospective client sounds] like someone who either has more money than sense, or neither of the two.

Not much sense is evident in what he says he wants. If I were to order boxed food products online, I wouldn't care about seeing the sides of the boxes. Why spend the money to show four sides? Why does he think customers need this?

Product of desperation, maybe? This whole venture seems wrong on so many levels. It will end badly, I think. Best not have anything to do with it.

OhLook wrote in post #18315286
Not much sense is evident in what he says he wants. If I were to order boxed food products online, I wouldn't care about seeing the sides of the boxes. Why spend the money to show four sides? Why does he think customers need this?

I spent the last part of my day trying to explain why taking a wider shot of a room scene to include the ceiling that will be totally blown out was a stupid idea. We have the shot, why move the camera to include something that could be added in seconds in Photoshop?

People are dumb. And in my case, the two people requesting the change are supposedly experienced with this type work. White is white, why reshoot? Idiots.

Bidding a job like this without a defined naming system, complete test shoot, and set workflow will be a nightmare. You need to have a photo workflow where the photos are perfect in camera and require no editing at all beyond resizing. I would recommend a naming system based on the UPC code of each product since it is unique, then add a letter code for F(front), S(side), etc. Also make sure you have a photo of each product's UPC code. A full test shoot of 50 products will give you an accurate estimate of time and effort to do 5,000.

Solid planning and teamwork with the client will make this a profitable shoot. Anything less could make this a disaster.

I have a smaller version of this shoot and it begins next week. I did a test last week and sent the Art Director a few images, so we could narrow down the lighting. I shoot 95% of my projects tethered to a MBP and 27" display using CaptureOne Pro with appropriate adjustments. Those adjustments are applied to every shot until I decide otherwise. I would use a macro lens so I could shoot the overall product, sides and then come in and capture the label. As far as bidding, I would find your base number and be prepared to walk away if they try to negotiate. I will stick to the numbers in my previous post and let my website speak for itself if the client wants to check.