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Thread started 01 Apr 2017 (Saturday) 23:48
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Newbie Recommendations?

 
snegron
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Apr 01, 2017 23:48 |  #1

Last month I purchased an Orion 10" dobsonian telescope with a few eyepieces. I also purchased a t-mount adapter foe Canon EOS. When I tried taaking a pic with my camera attached I couldn't see a thing.

Most likely I' m doing something wrong. Also, totally unrelated, I purchased a few eyepieces as as weĺl; a cheap "Gosky kit" and an Orion Stratus 5mm Wide-View eyepiece. Also purchased a laser collimator. I don't seen any difference between the Orion 5mm versus the cheap 6.5mm Gosky that came as part of a kit.

Not sure if I can even use my telescope for astrophotography or not.

Any suggestion where I can get more info on "astrophotography for beginners?




  
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MalVeauX
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Post edited over 6 years ago by MalVeauX. (2 edits in all)
     
Apr 02, 2017 07:20 |  #2

Heya,

Doing astrophotography with a 10 inch dob is not going to be easy, it can be done, but it will take some patience and practice. First of all, you have to figure out what it can do. You cannot take long exposure astrophotography with it, so that means no deep space objects (DSO). Your scope is very long, focal length of about 1,000mm or so I assume, which means the rotatation of the sky relative to you will be fast, and so it will blur when you try to take an image with the scope static pointing to a direction. This is why astrophotography uses tracking mounts. You cannot track with a dobsonian. But instead of talking about what you cannot do, here's what you can do: you can do lucky imaging via video while manually tracking a subject. You can either use your dSLR or a USB 3.0 camera of your choice, hook it up, achieve prime focus. Then, point it at the moon. Watch where the moon travels relative to the field of view. Move the scope so that the moon spends the most time in the field of view from one point to another. Practice doing that, and then roll some video while the moon is in the field of view. You should be able to get 100 frames or more maybe during that period. You can do the same thing with planets like Jupiter, which is out now. Just roll video while it's in the field of view. Do it over and over. Later, you'll take this video and stack and align it with something like Autostakkert!2 and create a single image from it.

Come on over to CloudyNights to learn more.

To truly start astrophotography, you're likely better off just using your dSLR and a short, fast camera lens and taking long exposures and learning how to do all this.

Very best,


My Flickr (external link) :: My Astrobin (external link)

  
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Nighthound
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Apr 02, 2017 09:31 |  #3

If the focuser on your Dob is the manufacturer unit you'll more than likely not be able to reach focus with your camera. The focuser needs to be low profile because the stock focus unit doesn't have enough inward travel. This would explain why you're not seeing anything. The dobsonian is a great viewing telescope but withoutt a tracking mount you'll be up against a lot of obstacles when attempting long exposures. At 1000mm you be limited to essentially snapshots, anything longer will reveal the Earth's rotation and of course the blur that comes with it. Lunar photography would be your best bet but you'll need to address the focuser issue before you can get started practicing, both your technique and plenty of patience. MMalVeaux offers great advice for getting started.


Steve
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snegron
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Post edited over 6 years ago by snegron.
     
Apr 02, 2017 10:33 as a reply to  @ MalVeauX's post |  #4

I just signed up over at Cloudynights! Great site! Thanks!




  
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TCampbell
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Apr 02, 2017 10:36 |  #5

There is a cheat for this... use a 2x barlow. Focused light is delivered to the barlow and the barlow projects that into your camera. It should solve the problem of focus... but at the trade-off of doubling the focal ratio and apparent focal length of the instrument. This means you lose 2 stops of light and you'll have a narrower angle of view. That also translates into the issue where objects seem to move through your field of view much faster so if your scope isn't 'tracking' it means you'll need faster shutter speeds (which is compounded since you're losing 2 stops of light). BUT... the image will be able to focus.

The camera's sensor is roughly 2" farther back from the point where the camera mounts to the focuser. The scope was meant to deliver a focused image nearer to the scope than the sensor position. Stars are other small objects are likely completely blurred out. But if you go for something large, bright, and easy... like the moon... you likely find that you will see a blurry blob of light. As you rack the focuser inward that light will begin to shrink into a defined shape... but the focuser runs out of travel before the image is able to come to focus.

A low profile focuser might be enough to solve the problem (but that requires replacing your stock factory focuser). Some dob newtonian reflector owners shim the primary mirror forward in the tube. If you shim it 2" it will easily focus on the camera plane, but now the focuser is may not rack out far enough for a visual eyepiece -- that's an easier problem to solve because you can just put a 2" extension on it. But you also get some light loss doing this because now the focused light of the object no longer completely falls on the secondary mirror -- it's like using a smaller scope that can't collect as much light.

There are scopes specifically designed for imaging (called "astrographs" - that's not a design, it's just a general category. You can get all kinds of design variations can be referred to as astrographs. It simply means there were specific design considerations that were optimized for astrophotography. There is such a thing as a Newtonian Astrograph -- and these do allow the image to come to focus with a camera attached.




  
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snegron
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Apr 02, 2017 10:39 |  #6

Nighthound wrote in post #18317416 (external link)
If the focuser on your Dob is the manufacturer unit you'll more than likely not be able to reach focus with your camera. The focuser needs to be low profile because the stock focus unit doesn't have enough inward travel. This would explain why you're not seeing anything. The dobsonian is a great viewing telescope but withoutt a tracking mount you'll be up against a lot of obstacles when attempting long exposures. At 1000mm you be limited to essentially snapshots, anything longer will reveal the Earth's rotation and of course the blur that comes with it. Lunar photography would be your best bet but you'll need to address the focuser issue before you can get started practicing, both your technique and plenty of patience. MMalVeaux offers great advice for getting started.


Thanks! Earth's rotation has definitely been a challenge for me. Jupiter moves much faster than the stars from what I have seen. I can barely keep it in view for 4 seconds before needing to adjust the position of my scope. The higher the magnification of the eyepiece I use, the quicker it shoots across my view.

Would using a high ISO help any?




  
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snegron
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Apr 02, 2017 10:59 |  #7

TCampbell wrote in post #18317461 (external link)
There is a cheat for this... use a 2x barlow. Focused light is delivered to the barlow and the barlow projects that into your camera. It should solve the problem of focus... but at the trade-off of doubling the focal ratio and apparent focal length of the instrument. This means you lose 2 stops of light and you'll have a narrower angle of view. That also translates into the issue where objects seem to move through your field of view much faster so if your scope isn't 'tracking' it means you'll need faster shutter speeds (which is compounded since you're losing 2 stops of light). BUT... the image will be able to focus.

The camera's sensor is roughly 2" farther back from the point where the camera mounts to the focuser. The scope was meant to deliver a focused image nearer to the scope than the sensor position. Stars are other small objects are likely completely blurred out. But if you go for something large, bright, and easy... like the moon... you likely find that you will see a blurry blob of light. As you rack the focuser inward that light will begin to shrink into a defined shape... but the focuser runs out of travel before the image is able to come to focus.

A low profile focuser might be enough to solve the problem (but that requires replacing your stock factory focuser). Some dob newtonian reflector owners shim the primary mirror forward in the tube. If you shim it 2" it will easily focus on the camera plane, but now the focuser is may not rack out far enough for a visual eyepiece -- that's an easier problem to solve because you can just put a 2" extension on it. But you also get some light loss doing this because now the focused light of the object no longer completely falls on the secondary mirror -- it's like using a smaller scope that can't collect as much light.

There are scopes specifically designed for imaging (called "astrographs" - that's not a design, it's just a general category. You can get all kinds of design variations can be referred to as astrographs. It simply means there were specific design considerations that were optimized for astrophotography. There is such a thing as a Newtonian Astrograph -- and these do allow the image to come to focus with a camera attached.


Thanks!! I have a 2X barlow that came with the ep kit. What would the proper mounting procedure be? The camera adapter came with a 1.25" adapter. Do I use the t-mount adapter with 1.25" adapter inserted into the 2X barlow, or do I screw the threaded top end of the 2X barlow directly to the t-mount adapter?




  
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Toxic ­ Coolaid
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Apr 03, 2017 16:54 |  #8

another cheat. Get your scope and camera out during the day and focus it on a far away tree, mountain or something a half mile out. The target won't move and you can see if you're getting closer to focus or making it worse. Figure out what you need, then try it at night when you know you're very close to focus. This has saved me a lot of time in the past.




  
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Davenn
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Apr 10, 2017 21:45 |  #9

snegron wrote in post #18317465 (external link)
Thanks! Earth's rotation has definitely been a challenge for me. Jupiter moves much faster than the stars from what I have seen. I can barely keep it in view for 4 seconds before needing to adjust the position of my scope. The higher the magnification of the eyepiece I use, the quicker it shoots across my view.

that's the way it is for a Dobo mount and other non tracking scopes

Would using a high ISO help any?

it's not going to help with the speed objects are moving in the view

Your 10" Dobo is a great observing scope, as others said earlier, it isn't any good for astrophotography
other than high shutter speed shots of the moon and with appropriate solar filer, the sun

Dave


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Canon 5D3, 6D, 700D, a bunch of lenses and other bits, ohhh and some Pentax stuff ;)

  
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