Ergonomics of X-t2 w/ EF-X500

HA, I have the same feeling when I'm at events that my kids are in and they have hired a photographer to cover it. Despite being told not to I usually say feck this and drag a camera out of the boot. Sometimes their shots are good very often they are not. Their shots are usually in focus but the absolute lack of composition is frustrating and added to that they simply don't see the next shot before it's too late. It's like they are just standing around and clicking whatever comes into the frame. Gear has little to do with it & these guys are usually the ones who have the most bolted on bits hanging off them, I even saw one guy with a monopod on an EOS M when 1/500 @ F/2 was 100 ISO.

Being a professional is a totally different skill and has little to do with photography and everything to do with understanding your clients needs and then exceeding them in a way that makes them feel their trust in you is worth the spend. Yes you need to know your gear backwards, most competent photographers do, and have a solution to every problem that appears have gear backups and hit your brief right on the head as well as a few curve balls.

If flash is a big part of your style all is good, if not that's fine. Flash is not a big part of my shooting but I know how to mix it in when I want or need, it really depends on what you are being hired for. The shoot I did for Molson required us to set a cave to 'look cold' and energetic. We lit the whole place up for that one. Last wedding I did in Nov was unplugged and I was asked if I could shoot without flash, absolutely and was able to show examples so the bride was relaxed about it.

I've shot large groups, mostly at weddings, in available light as you'd have to have a lot of flash power to make a difference unless you light the group a few at a time and spent a little time in Ps afterwards, which is fine, unless the guests couldn't be arsed hanging about while your assistant walks down the line with a flash.

I don't think bouncing is the be all and end all of flash, just another option, much like a little soft box or popup flash disk. Really flash, at events, should be about adding to the light not overpowering it and ruining the atmosphere as I all to ofter see. That is not a true representation of the day after all.

Back to ergonomics, it is a personal thing. I don't mind the feel of a large flash on top of the Fuji, yes the balance is different as you might expect as the camera is quite light. That is one of the many reasons people choose to shoot with a smaller camera system, the weight is less. I know my body thanks me for not having to lug around two FF cameras and a shoulder bag with a few extras in it for 14 hours. Much better now having the same set up only with smaller & lighter cameras and lenses to cart about. The flashes are still the same, but for the little i40 and that has a particular place in work flow, they are still full size and full weight and no problem in handling to me on top of a Fuji. On a side note my favourite set up as far as feeling goes is a gripped XT with the little 18/2 on it. It feels like the first camera I was given instruction on, by my neighbour who was the lead press photographer in our biggest newspaper at the time. Good memories.

[QUOTE=EverydayGetaway​;18323534][QUOTE=AlanU​;18323504]Everyday,

I've seen natural light shooters work where they attempt to shoot an entire large group without flash. These are self-proclaimed natural light shooters that are shooting professionally locally to me. This is where my subjective critique finds these no flash photos amateur. I'll admit the only photo that turn out well for them is the fast primes limiting small number of people in the photo.

It is unprofessional to have blurry images or misfocused subjects in a group shot. I push the limits of my Fuji in terrible conditions and I failed as I should've used and higher ISO but produce soft and unprofessional looking photos that uncle Bob could've taken with expensive smaller sensor point and shoot. As you can see on print the black and white iPhone photo would look better than my Fuji combo with no flash. You probably thought I wouldn't post the photos LOL ! Clearly the iPhone photo was more useable which my wife with no experience in photography could've easily taken.

Again... who's debating group shots in this thread? I hoped you would post the photos so I could see the differences myself, and as I suspected the iPhone shot isn't much (if any) better than the Fuji shot to my eyes, and again, I fail to see why you couldn't have gotten the better shot with the Fuji by stopping down a bit and using higher ISO or using the iPhone's light as a flash for your Fuji, this isn't an example of Fuji's failure in my opinion...

As for iPhones with flashes being better than a Fuji without flash... I don't buy it. Nor did any of the other coaches who took this same shot using their phones and then asked me to grab my X-E2 out of my locker

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/PDDq​UQ

[QUOTE=AlanU;18323969]

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #18323534
My point is to incorporate flash where it is needed. For large group shots I've found flash to be extremely useful in getting tack sharp images. I've taken a very large group shot of parents/kids on a large playground apparatus with my X-T10 w/ 16mm f/1.4. Ideal light with perfect "open shade" lighting. The image was great but even minor pixel peeping it was without a doubt softer than what I would have gotten with my aging canon 5dmk2.

The group shot you took in the gym is soft on my 100% SRGB IPS panel. I cannot see the flickr page as it is private. Using flash would assure 100% increase in sharpness.

Even with the X-t2 at ISO 12800 with extremely low light the results are not really usable for my standards. I guess I can always process them in Black/white

I'm implying that in many cases people should consider using flash in certain situations but they do not due to many reasons (Lazy, lack of knowledge, lack of time, lack of gear, assuming they can get away without using flash etc). I just noticed that there is an extremely high percentage of non flash users in the fuji world.

I use flash when it's needed This is just only a photo of one of them with 7 foot modifier

Hosted photo: posted by AlanU in
./showthread.php?p=183​23969&i=i159945977
forum: Fuji Digital Cameras

Did you even read my post or did you just click on the pic, pixel peep it and rush back to school me on how soft it was?

I posted that shot as an example of Fuji's files being superior to anything an iPhone can produce, with or without flash, if you read the post that should have been obvious. Never did I claim it was a fantastic image, never did I claim that it was super sharp, I merely pointed out that the shot only exists because phone shots were not fitting the bill.

Again, you're implying that you think the majority of Fuji users on this forum not using flash is due to a lack of skill or understanding, and again, I think you're flat out wrong and the proof is in the images.

At the end of the day you can have a technically sound, noise free and super sharp image that still looks like crud next to a grainy, soft yet amazing shot. The content of the image will always be 100% more important than any technical factor.

[QUOTE=EverydayGetaway​;18324392]

AlanU wrote in post #18323969
Did you even read my post or did you just click on the pic, pixel peep it and rush back to school me on how soft it was?

I posted that shot as an example of Fuji's files being superior to anything an iPhone can produce, with or without flash, if you read the post that should have been obvious. Never did I claim it was a fantastic image, never did I claim that it was super sharp, I merely pointed out that the shot only exists because phone shots were not fitting the bill.

Again, you're implying that you think the majority of Fuji users on this forum not using flash is due to a lack of skill or understanding, and again, I think you're flat out wrong and the proof is in the images.

At the end of the day you can have a technically sound, noise free and super sharp image that still looks like crud next to a grainy, soft yet amazing shot. The content of the image will always be 100% more important than any technical factor.

Yes i asked if your group photo was soft. I cannot look at your flickr page as it is private so I cannot see your settings or non compressed photo. Looking at POTN the image has no sharpness to the eyes. However on a 300dpi small print it'll be a great photo. An 8x10 would be large enough to display soft eyes. Take this as constructive criticism as not everyone is kind and accepting when it comes to image quality. This is NOT a personal attack. Yes indeed the X-E2 captured an image. The saying goes "The BEST camera is the one you have with you" I do not know many pro's that would display a soft image anywhere as this represents their product.

My wife's iphone did an adequate job in taking a group shot. 5x7 it'll be decent enough. If I used my X-T2 at 12800 and stopping down my 16mm prime would have been soft. However to stop down the fuji to get appropriate dof for that group shot I'd need to go higher than 12800 ISO to achieve decent shutter speeds. Loose, loose situation when I did own an external flash with my fuji.

What is the settings of your X-E2 when you took the kids group shot?? ISO? Aperture? shutter speed? Did you use flash??
Gymnasium light you could easily be at iso 2000 to 3200. Hard to tell if you used flash but i do not see any catchlight in their eyes.
I certainly hope most dslr / mirrorless camera's will do a better job than a smart phone. However in that same situation even an 800 dollar Sony RX100 mk4 with face detect and flash would do a fantastic job in automatic mode even better than a 16mp fuji sensor with no flash..... Why????. A smaller sony sensor would require less light to light up the entire group (shooting wider aperture with all the kids in focus) while taking advantage of a small sensors deeper DOF at a wider aperture.

Your previous Sony A7S would have a cleaner and sharper image at a higher iso with no flash. This is where composition is not in question. The gear's sensor capabilities is responsible for better IQ. A more powerful external flash while stopping down a fuji will also produce great images. I do not feel any one wanting professional results would use an onboard flash spitting low watt seconds of power.

Most soccer mom/dad's, non professional photogs seldom lug an external flash. The photog's that demand the most out of their camera gear would be lugging an external flash to obtain max IQ when the situation requires a flash. How do people know when to use flash??? The ones that have the knowledge and understand the laws of light. This is why I would say in a generalized statement that it's a lack of skill where the average shooter does not know when to use flash properly. It takes alot of skill to produce professional composition/high quality image quality as a natural light shooter in a consistent manner. A group shot taken using natural light in poor light indicates that the photographer did not either have appropriate flash gear on hand or they are simply pushing the limits of the sensor and hoping a high iso image can be hopefully corrected in post. However there's also folks shooting in low light with no flash hoping for the best. These are the ones that lack knowledge and skill but they are just snap shooters and no fault to them......

A professional should have capable gear that can produce sharp images at high iso and meet his/her requirements. In fact most semi pro's and hobbyists often buy top tier high end gear. The operator of the camera is what makes a huge difference between a snap shooter and well composed story telling pro.

I think their are a lot of Pro's buying fuji as secondary systems. I seems to see that most Pro's are set in their ways sticking with Nikon, Canon and some moving more to Sony full frames for pro work. Fuji is now gaining momentum for Pro use.

My observation is that there is a lot of hobbyist fuji owners shooting with no flash. I do see that in many cases they are not utilizing proper flash techniques when it should be used. Style has a part of this too. I'm aware that we all have different styles but soft images is usually isn't what a photographer likes to see in their images that they display publicly to the world. I know alot of people/friends in the camera retail sector and there is a big shift of Canon Rebel series/Nikon d5000 series users gravitating to Fuji for better fuji rendition IQ. So there are Pro's on one end and soccer mom/dads on the other end of the scale of fuji ownership. You can see where there is a bountiful amount of knowledge and lack of knowledge in camera operation in fuji ownership (any camera make).

If people are snap shooter the IQ is not on the top of the list. Capturing candid moments is what their goal is. Again different application and mindset. There is a reason why there is a HUGE PERCENTAGE of people now using smartphones instead of using a "Real" camera. There is no denial of that statement!! Yes....they are snap shooters with little knowledge of theory of "EXPOSURE TRIANGLE".

Again this is not a personal attack. The theories I discuss is sound and I am not misleading. I think most photogs utilize everyway possible to paint light. When light is missing they will provide it........... for max IQ. Composition is not the question as this is their job in providing their style.

I'll try to make this a little more direct than the usual quoting system.

AlanU wrote in post #18323504
Yes i asked if your group photo was soft. I cannot look at your flickr page as it is private so I cannot see your settings or non compressed photo. Looking at POTN the image has no sharpness to the eyes. However on a 300dpi small print it'll be a great photo. An 8x10 would be large enough to display soft eyes. Take this as constructive criticism as not everyone is kind and accepting when it comes to image quality. This is NOT a personal attack. Yes indeed the X-E2 captured an image. The saying goes "The BEST camera is the one you have with you" I do not know many pro's that would display a soft image anywhere as this represents their product.

My wife's iphone did an adequate job in taking a group shot. 5x7 it'll be decent enough. If I used my X-T2 at 12800 and stopping down my 16mm prime would have been soft. However to stop down the fuji to get appropriate dof for that group shot I'd need to go higher than 12800 ISO to achieve decent shutter speeds. Loose, loose situation when I did own an external flash with my fuji.

What is the settings of your X-E2 when you took the kids group shot?? ISO? Aperture? shutter speed? Did you use flash??
Gymnasium light you could easily be at iso 2000 to 3200. Hard to tell if you used flash but i do not see any catchlight in their eyes.
I certainly hope most dslr / mirrorless camera's will do a better job than a smart phone. However in that same situation even an 800 dollar Sony RX100 mk4 with face detect and flash would do a fantastic job in automatic mode even better than a 16mp fuji sensor with no flash..... Why????. A smaller sony sensor would require less light to light up the entire group (shooting wider aperture with all the kids in focus) while taking advantage of a small sensors deeper DOF at a wider aperture.

Your previous Sony A7S would have a cleaner and sharper image at a higher iso with no flash. This is where composition is not in question. The gear's sensor capabilities is responsible for better IQ. A more powerful external flash while stopping down a fuji will also produce great images. I do not feel any one wanting professional results would use an onboard flash spitting low watt seconds of power.

Most soccer mom/dad's, non professional photogs seldom lug an external flash. The photog's that demand the most out of their camera gear would be lugging an external flash to obtain max IQ when the situation requires a flash. How do people know when to use flash??? The ones that have the knowledge and understand the laws of light. This is why I would say in a generalized statement that it's a lack of skill where the average shooter does not know when to use flash properly. It takes alot of skill to produce professional composition/high quality image quality as a natural light shooter in a consistent manner. A group shot taken using natural light in poor light indicates that the photographer did not either have appropriate flash gear on hand or they are simply pushing the limits of the sensor and hoping a high iso image can be hopefully corrected in post. However there's also folks shooting in low light with no flash hoping for the best. These are the ones that lack knowledge and skill but they are just snap shooters and no fault to them......

A professional should have capable gear that can produce sharp images at high iso and meet his/her requirements. In fact most semi pro's and hobbyists often buy top tier high end gear. The operator of the camera is what makes a huge difference between a snap shooter and well composed story telling pro.

I think their are a lot of Pro's buying fuji as secondary systems. I seems to see that most Pro's are set in their ways sticking with Nikon, Canon and some moving more to Sony full frames for pro work. Fuji is now gaining momentum for Pro use.

My observation is that there is a lot of hobbyist fuji owners shooting with no flash. I do see that in many cases they are not utilizing proper flash techniques when it should be used. Style has a part of this too. I'm aware that we all have different styles but soft images is usually isn't what a photographer likes to see in their images that they display publicly to the world. I know alot of people/friends in the camera retail sector and there is a big shift of Canon Rebel series/Nikon d5000 series users gravitating to Fuji for better fuji rendition IQ. So there are Pro's on one end and soccer mom/dads on the other end of the scale of fuji ownership. You can see where there is a bountiful amount of knowledge and lack of knowledge in camera operation in fuji ownership (any camera make).

If people are snap shooter the IQ is not on the top of the list. Capturing candid moments is what their goal is. Again different application and mindset. There is a reason why there is a HUGE PERCENTAGE of people now using smartphones instead of using a "Real" camera. There is no denial of that statement!! Yes....they are snap shooters with little knowledge of theory of "EXPOSURE TRIANGLE".

Again this is not a personal attack. The theories I discuss is sound and I am not misleading. I think most photogs utilize everyway possible to paint light. When light is missing they will provide it........... for max IQ. Composition is not the question as this is their job in providing their style.

"Yes i asked if your group photo was soft. I cannot look at your flickr page as it is private so I cannot see your settings or non compressed photo."

-No, you didn't "ask" if the photo was soft, you asserted that it was. Here, look below, I'll trace the quotes directly since I'm not sure you read them last time.

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #18323534
Again... who's debating group shots in this thread? I hoped you would post the photos so I could see the differences myself, and as I suspected the iPhone shot isn't much (if any) better than the Fuji shot to my eyes, and again, I fail to see why you couldn't have gotten the better shot with the Fuji by stopping down a bit and using higher ISO or using the iPhone's light as a flash for your Fuji, this isn't an example of Fuji's failure in my opinion...

As for iPhones with flashes being better than a Fuji without flash... I don't buy it. Nor did any of the other coaches who took this same shot using their phones and then asked me to grab my X-E2 out of my locker

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/PDDq​UQ DSCF8373.jpg by Lucas, on Flickr

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #18324392
I posted that shot as an example of Fuji's files being superior to anything an iPhone can produce, with or without flash, if you read the post that should have been obvious. Never did I claim it was a fantastic image, never did I claim that it was super sharp, I merely pointed out that the shot only exists because phone shots were not fitting the bill.

I honestly don't know how I could be any clearer.

"Take this as constructive criticism as not everyone is kind and accepting when it comes to image quality. This is NOT a personal attack. Yes indeed the X-E2 captured an image. The saying goes "The BEST camera is the one you have with you" I do not know many pro's that would display a soft image anywhere as this represents their product.

My wife's iphone did an adequate job in taking a group shot. 5x7 it'll be decent enough. If I used my X-T2 at 12800 and stopping down my 16mm prime would have been soft. However to stop down the fuji to get appropriate dof for that group shot I'd need to go higher than 12800 ISO to achieve decent shutter speeds. Loose, loose situation when I did own an external flash with my fuji."

-Again, I don't care what other photographer's would or would not do, I care about taking photos that I enjoy and I know others will enjoy, it doesn't have to be an image I would sell for me to share it, especially with friends (which was the example you originally gave).

Your wife's iPhone shot would definitely have been softer and way more full of artifacts than your X-T2 at or above ISO12800, how you think otherwise is beyond me. And again, in the future, you could do as I suggested and just use your wife's phone's flash to light the shot and use your Fuji.

Here's an example from my X-Pro2 at ISO12,800, a very useable and plenty sharp image

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/SPGD​1T DSCF0177.jpg by Lucas, on Flickr

-ISO5000 and pushed a bit in post, so let's just say ISO6400, f2.8 with the XF 27mm, 1/100s, no flash. Again, this was a quick snap upon the request of my co-workers (the girl in the middle of the shot is Olympian Shawn Johnson, she stopped by our gym). The shot looked far superior to any of the phones used for the shots, so much so that after sending everyone the JPEG (directly from the camera via WiFi) it made the rounds on Instagram with dozens of reposts and over a thousand "likes" (with more "likes" on some of the reposts)... man, sure wish I never displayed that image 

Everyday,

This has nothing to do with "higher esteem" LOL!!!! Inferiority? Not my doing.......Perhaps your word "inferiority" is a strong word. photographer's blurry soft images during challenging light time and time again is proof of potential uses of flash to improve IQ. I'm aware that a camera is a tool for many applications if photography. Snapshots not tack sharp is acceptably fine due to it's casual nature I guess. Documenting home interior, portraits or events photography there is really no room for soft images IMO. There are exceptions of maintaining a mood or ambiance shooting available light.

"-What exactly is the point you're trying to make? Go ahead and state it clearly instead of making allusions, because it seems to me that you're saying all these people not using flash are doing so because they're "amateurs" without your degree of professional pedigree. I'll tell you right now I don't carry a flash around with me most of the time because of several reasons; it's bulky, it calls unwanted attention and most importantly, for most of my shooting it just isn't necessary. Does that mean I don't know how to use it and thus, never do? Absolutely not. I use flash when I feel it necessary, and have plenty of examples of this here on the forums or on my flickr, go take a gander."

I do not know if you've mastered bouncing flash technique. I know I can hold my own 100% of the time in any condition as my work (paid or casual) is always consistent be it available light or bounced/ studio. "Amateurs" consistent blurry images needs no explanation.....lack of proper tools used or lack of knowledge (photography theory and threshold of gears capabilities). This is NOTHING to do with "high self esteem or ego"!! It's simply stating facts that blurry soft images is not what a pro would produce to clients intentionally.

A flash is a good tool to stop action even when dragging the shutter. If an Amateur is not using flash and produces blurry images shooting available light this is OK? If a person knows flash will resolve and avoid blurry shots but continues to shoot available light is that ok? (most situations do not restrict flash use) Probably OK for a casual snapshooter but I'm sorry it's not acceptable for a PRO demonstrating his /her skill, knowledge and IQ output. By definition an Amateur is using photography as a pastime and not a professional. A Pro would not intentionally create blurry soft images (work or play) because they do not want to add bulk to their gear. If your taking snapshots that's a different story depending on the importance of the photo (why use a fuji or any camera if you own a smartphone). The point of owning a dslr or mirrorless is to produce better images than an smartphone. Funny thing is many high end point/shoots are producing better images than inexperienced dslr/mirrorless users. A Pro should consistently produce a solid workflow of sharp high quality images and not blurry/soft (unless it's 100% intentional). Even a soccer mom/dad should be putting effort into learning to document without soft images.

Just curious if you were intending to use flash when you took photos of your coworker's gender reveal? That is definitely an EPIC important event to document!!!! when i know I'm in a situation like that I will have a flash 100% of the time and understand that in low light conditions an f/1.4 prime will still fail my "BS IQ". I'd imagine any images is better than no images and people always appreciate photos!! Every photographer has a tolerance to what level of "quality" is usable or not. As you've mentioned you seldom carry flash yet I will 99% of the time. My fuji kit fits on my spider holster belt and thinktank lens bags so it's easy to carry anywhere all of the time with ease. This is why I love fuji over canon for portability and now that I have a capable flash to do almost anything with my fuji kit. Casual or paid I will cull any images as this is a representation of your work. You and I have a different approach...simple as that!

My point of "composition is not the question" merely states that it is obviously expected from the photographer as it is his/her job to do so. Composition was not the question. A Photographer's standards should to aim for sharp images regardless of situation. This is where flash is a helpful tool to achieve that "sharp" goal or a camera capable of extremely high ISO performance (5d4, d810, Sony A7Smk2 etc). However it is also understood that flash can kill the ambiance or mood of a moment. This is totally at the discretion of the photographer when to use or not use flash.

It's understood your more of an available light shooter. I'm not certain if your looking at the same POTN fuji category but I was merely stating that I see little use of flash photography with the folks here. Take a gander at people's "gear signatures" and many do not own an external fuji flash and many use on board pop up. Pop up flash at max flash sync (not X100 series) is quite low so it's not easy to achieve wide open shots with primes when your limited to 1/180 or for the flashships 1/250 SS. This is where you'd need to stop down the aperture to keep low shutter speeds to meet max flash sync or inconveniently use ND filters (again not x100 series).

The kids group shot is again a perfect example of "The BEST camera is the one you have with you". I think you forget I too love fuji rendition. My point of the EF-X500 post was to say I finally have a tool that can meet my standards in achieving my level of work/casual "standards". I go to great lengths to meet my standard of "BS IQ" LOL!!!! I'll make my gear heavier with external flash but leave no excuses after the fact about IQ. Your X-E2 did produce a better image than the rest of the parents with smartphones so they will of course be pleased with a cute casual group shot.

I know when to use a tool when it's needed. I always carry a flash when I even casually shoot with my Canon gear. I'll shoot available light a lot. However outdoors often want to have proper exposure of the background when story telling. This is why I'd hit fill flash on the subject while exposing the background properly instead of clipping highlights where often is not recoverable in post. Sometimes for portraits I careless and shoot open shade concerned only of exposing the subject while shooting available light. This is why sometimes I'll blurr the background to cream shooting wideopen with no flash. However I'll also stop down and shoot with a deeper dof wanting proper subject exposure and background exposure without clipping highlights.

Your girlfriend's snap shot at 12800 at f1.4 is sharp. Observe your close proximity shooting with one subject (plenty of pixels concentrating on a tightly composed photo). Try stopping down the aperture further for more dof with a large group shot that is not on the same plane of focus.........Just do it with dark available light that is barely getting 1/40 shutter speed. Yes indeed.....time to use an external flash bounced so you get less light roll off with virtually guaranteed sharp images. This was my point that I pushed my limits of available light shooting and I failed with my settings but TBH it was not an ideal light situation for such a large group shot and I did NOT own the Fuji flash at that time. Fail on my part for not buying a flash sooner. I virtually never make excuses for a lack of IQ but shooting available light was guaranteed to have mediocre results anyways with the X-T2 sensor in that darkness for the DOF I needed. I was ill equipped and failed on this unexpected photo I was asked to shoot as a favour.

Posting a fun casual group shot photo on social media is one thing. It's a sharing experience that people will enjoy. No kid or parent will critique such a casual fun photo. Paying customers on the other hand will not be hitting a like button if your image is very soft/blurry during a ceremony or reception. They pay to have your "style of photography" while upholding professional image quality.

Getting back to my original thread I'm still trying to get use to a top heavy EF-X500 on my X-t2....isn't this what my thread was about LOL!!!!

AlanU wrote in post #18325168
Everyday,

This has nothing to do with "higher esteem" LOL!!!! Inferiority? Not my doing.......Perhaps your word "inferiority" is a strong word. photographer's blurry soft images during challenging light time and time again is proof of potential uses of flash to improve IQ. I'm aware that a camera is a tool for many applications if photography. Snapshots not tack sharp is acceptably fine due to it's casual nature I guess. Documenting home interior, portraits or events photography there is really no room for soft images IMO. There are exceptions of maintaining a mood or ambiance shooting available light.

It's a strong word because it was a strong and obvious implication.

"-What exactly is the point you're trying to make? Go ahead and state it clearly instead of making allusions, because it seems to me that you're saying all these people not using flash are doing so because they're "amateurs" without your degree of professional pedigree. I'll tell you right now I don't carry a flash around with me most of the time because of several reasons; it's bulky, it calls unwanted attention and most importantly, for most of my shooting it just isn't necessary. Does that mean I don't know how to use it and thus, never do? Absolutely not. I use flash when I feel it necessary, and have plenty of examples of this here on the forums or on my flickr, go take a gander."

I do not know if you've mastered bouncing flash technique. I know I can hold my own 100% of the time in any condition as my work (paid or casual) is always consistent be it available light or bounced/ studio. "Amateurs" consistent blurry images needs no explanation.....lack of proper tools used or lack of knowledge (photography theory and threshold of gears capabilities). This is NOTHING to do with "high self esteem or ego"!! It's simply stating facts that blurry soft images is not what a pro would produce to clients intentionally.

And who said that anyone is doing that? Only YOU! You make these grand assumptions based on what people are sharing in a casual thread.

A flash is a good tool to stop action even when dragging the shutter. If an Amateur is not using flash and produces blurry images shooting available light this is OK? If a person knows flash will resolve and avoid blurry shots but continues to shoot available light is that ok? (most situations do not restrict flash use) Probably OK for a casual snapshooter but I'm sorry it's not acceptable for a PRO demonstrating his /her skill, knowledge and IQ output. By definition an Amateur is using photography as a pastime and not a professional. A Pro would not intentionally create blurry soft images (work or play) because they do not want to add bulk to their gear. If your taking snapshots that's a different story depending on the importance of the photo (why use a fuji or any camera if you own a smartphone). The point of owning a dslr or mirrorless is to produce better images than an smartphone. Funny thing is many high end point/shoots are producing better images than inexperienced dslr/mirrorless users. A Pro should consistently produce a solid workflow of sharp high quality images and not blurry/soft (unless it's 100% intentional). Even a soccer mom/dad should be putting effort into learning to document without soft images.

Here you are again implying that the majority of photos you see in the Fuji forums are blurry or soft... what forums are you referencing? Am I making a mistake here? Because I fail to see any other possible way to interpret this.

Just curious if you were intending to use flash when you took photos of your coworker's gender reveal? That is definitely an EPIC important event to document!!!! when i know I'm in a situation like that I will have a flash 100% of the time and understand that in low light conditions an f/1.4 prime will still fail my "BS IQ". I'd imagine any images is better than no images and people always appreciate photos!! Every photographer has a tolerance to what level of "quality" is usable or not. As you've mentioned you seldom carry flash yet I will 99% of the time. My fuji kit fits on my spider holster belt and thinktank lens bags so it's easy to carry anywhere all of the time with ease. This is why I love fuji over canon for portability and now that I have a capable flash to do almost anything with my fuji kit. Casual or paid I will cull any images as this is a representation of your work. You and I have a different approach...simple as that!

Again, if you bothered to read my posts you'd know that this reveal was done as an added bonus to a movie night we had with your team kids. It was in a MOVIE THEATER, I wasn't even sure I would be allowed to take my camera in at all, so I brought only my X-T1 and XF 18mm as this was my least expensive kit for peace of mind if I had to leave them in the car during the movie. My co-worker hadn't even asked me to bring a camera, I did so on my own accord. I personally will never be "that" guy who's sitting there popping off flash in a dark and crowded movie theater distracting everyone from enjoying such an "EPIC important event" themselves in person, I'd much rather blend in and enjoy that moment with them and capture some photos they're happy with at the same time.

Further, I didn't say I seldom carry a flash, I said I seldom use one (in fact, I don't even think I ever said that). I have a flash in my bag whenever I use a bag, often I only grab my camera and one lens attached to it.

My point of "composition is not the question" merely states that it is obviously expected from the photographer as it is his/her job to do so. Composition was not the question. A Photographer's standards should to aim for sharp images regardless of situation. This is where flash is a helpful tool to achieve that "sharp" goal or a camera capable of extremely high ISO performance (5d4, d810, Sony A7Smk2 etc). However it is also understood that flash can kill the ambiance or mood of a moment. This is totally at the discretion of the photographer when to use or not use flash.

And my point is that with modern cameras (including Fuji) you don't need a flash for sharp images, shots from my X-Pro2 and even 16mp bodies are just as sharp as shots from my old 6D or a7R at equivalent ISO's and not far enough behind my a7S to fuss over in real world use (except when exceeding ISO50k where the a7S was approaching ridiculous).

It's understood your more of an available light shooter. I'm not certain if your looking at the same POTN fuji category but I was merely stating that I see little use of flash photography with the folks here. Take a gander at people's "gear signatures" and many do not own an external fuji flash and many use on board pop up. Pop up flash at max flash sync (not X100 series) is quite low so it's not easy to achieve wide open shots with primes when your limited to 1/180 or for the flashships 1/250 SS. This is where you'd need to stop down the aperture to keep low shutter speeds to meet max flash sync or inconveniently use ND filters (again not x100 series).

I have 3 speedlights, 2 studio strobes and a bunch of modifiers, backdrops, etc... yet none are listed in my signature, this isn't evidence of anything at all. Again, you don't see a lot of flash shots posted there because flash is not conducive to many people who shoot with Fuji for many situations. If you posted more examples of your own work I would compare and contrast those reasons, but it seems that you seldom share your work.

The kids group shot is again a perfect example of "The BEST camera is the one you have with you". I think you forget I too love fuji rendition. My point of the EF-X500 post was to say I finally have a tool that can meet my standards in achieving my level of work/casual "standards". I go to great lengths to meet my standard of "BS IQ" LOL!!!! I'll make my gear heavier with external flash but leave no excuses after the fact about IQ. Your X-E2 did produce a better image than the rest of the parents with smartphones so they will of course be pleased with a cute casual group shot.

Great, if you find that tolerable or necessary, good for you, but when you start belittling the work others are putting out because they don't deem it necessary or realistic to carry around a camera and large external flash on a belt rig like Wyatt Earp Adams I'm going to call you out for it. I carry a camera with me literally everywhere I go every single day... work, dinner, breakfast, wherever and whatever I bring my X100T or some other camera, sure as hell not going to drag extra stuff along with it for those everyday situations where most of the time I don't even use the camera.

I know when to use a tool when it's needed. I always carry a flash when I even casually shoot with my Canon gear. I'll shoot available light a lot. However outdoors often want to have proper exposure of the background when story telling. This is why I'd hit fill flash on the subject while exposing the background properly instead of clipping highlights where often is not recoverable in post. Sometimes for portraits I careless and shoot open shade concerned only of exposing the subject while shooting available light. This is why sometimes I'll blurr the background to cream shooting wideopen with no flash. However I'll also stop down and shoot with a deeper dof wanting proper subject exposure and background exposure without clipping highlights.

Only you ever suggested this is contrary to anyone else in these forums, myself included.

Your girlfriend's snap shot at 12800 at f1.4 is sharp. Observe your close proximity shooting with one subject (plenty of pixels concentrating on a tightly composed photo). Try stopping down the aperture further for more dof with a large group shot that is not on the same plane of focus.........Just do it with dark available light that is barely getting 1/40 shutter speed. Yes indeed.....time to use an external flash bounced so you get less light roll off with virtually guaranteed sharp images. This was my point that I pushed my limits of available light shooting and I failed with my settings but TBH it was not an ideal light situation for such a large group shot and I did NOT own the Fuji flash at that time. Fail on my part for not buying a flash sooner. I virtually never make excuses for a lack of IQ but shooting available light was guaranteed to have mediocre results anyways with the X-T2 sensor in that darkness for the DOF I needed. I was ill equipped and failed on this unexpected photo I was asked to shoot as a favour.

For the umpteenth time, you're the one who keeps bringing up group shots... group shots are a very small percentage of what I see posted on the Fuji forums, so I'm not sure why you're so hung up on them.

Posting a fun casual group shot photo on social media is one thing. It's a sharing experience that people will enjoy. No kid or parent will critique such a casual fun photo. Paying customers on the other hand will not be hitting a like button if your image is very soft/blurry during a ceremony or reception. They pay to have your "style of photography" while upholding professional image quality.

Yes, yes they do... which is why they have access to my portfolio full of hundreds of images, most of which are indeed with natural light and many are with higher ISOs, I still book clients

Getting back to my original thread I'm still trying to get use to a top heavy EF-X500 on my X-t2....isn't this what my thread was about LOL!!!!

Responses in bold.

Everyday,

I use to take offence to people when they comment. Open up your mind and take things with constructive criticism. By doing so you may approach photography in a different view and grow even more. Shoot with great composition and perfect execution all of the time and hone your skills. Leave excuses behind as a photo displayed online or print is a product of your work viewed by many. If your simply a fun casual snap shooter that is cool as a photo is better than no photo. This is where Instagram is begging for likes from a smartphone photo.

I have kids so my important documentation is about family and paid work. Throwing a Fuji around with flash now guarantees 100% that I'll be able to shoot available light and use flash when warranted. I make no excuses when I shoot with my Canon and flash on hand. The EF-X500 will now be an important tool for my secondary system.

So your co workers gender reveal was in a public access movie theater??? They allowed such a thing to happen??? At the end of the movie this happened???? That's "interesting"!! so your ran out of the movie theater to your car to grab the camera then re accessed the theater to take photos? Ok........ I'd be certain friends pulled out their smartphones and shot with their smartphone flashes.....I'm just keepin' it real......

I just make a note of consistent high quality images from many fuji shooters on this forum. I also enjoy casual snaps on the forum too. You can take my constructive criticism as a negative but I hope this "discussion" redirects you to a positive "push" in a more open mind about publicly posting photos Online images are open game to ultra critical potential clients/people but friends will always like especially on Instagram/FB

I think everyone here on POTN is striving to improve. I know I am on a continuous basis!! Some just take snaps and careless and love their smartphones and some put great efforts into improving their skills. I work on never making excuses and continuously work extremely hard to only present the best work publicly all of the time be it casual or paid. I have freelance car magazine photographer friends that only show superb photos of work and casual. .....but they are not snapshooters.

That is all......

Alan,

I agree completely. Adding the fuji system for me means I have 100% access to a camera that I will end up getting more shots of the kids as they grow.

AlanU wrote in post #18325358
Everyday,

I use to take offence to people when they comment. Open up your mind and take things with constructive criticism. By doing so you may approach photography in a different view and grow even more. Shoot with great composition and perfect execution all of the time and hone your skills. Leave excuses behind as a photo displayed online or print is a product of your work viewed by many. If your simply a fun casual snap shooter that is cool as a photo is better than no photo. This is where Instagram is begging for likes from a smartphone photo.

Take what as a constructive criticism? You haven't given me any direct constructive criticism... you keep implying that I or others don't use flash because we're "amateurs", even though I've posted plenty of examples to show you this isn't inherently the case.

I have kids so my important documentation is about family and paid work. Throwing a Fuji around with flash now guarantees 100% that I'll be able to shoot available light and use flash when warranted. I make no excuses when I shoot with my Canon and flash on hand. The EF-X500 will now be an important tool for my secondary system.

So your co workers gender reveal was in a public access movie theater??? They allowed such a thing to happen??? At the end of the movie this happened???? That's "interesting"!! so your ran out of the movie theater to your car to grab the camera then re accessed the theater to take photos? Ok........ I'd be certain friends pulled out their smartphones and shot with their smartphone flashes.....I'm just keepin' it real......

Yes, it was in a public movie theater. We bought every ticket in the theater and they allowed us to set up the tables before the previews started for them to do their reveal. I had my camera with me the whole movie, as much to my surprise they allowed me to keep it in there. And you can be as certain as you want, nobody was popping flash during the whole thing, several people were videoing it (I have several kids who are YouTube vloggers), but nobody was popping off flashes, and if they were they must have been pretty dim because I certainly didn't notice.

I just make a note of consistent high quality images from many fuji shooters on this forum. I also enjoy casual snaps on the forum too. You can take my constructive criticism as a negative but I hope this "discussion" redirects you to a positive "push" in a more open mind about publicly posting photos Online images are open game to ultra critical potential clients/people but friends will always like especially on Instagram/FB

I don't make a living with my photography, nor do I really have any desire or push to do so. If I can make a few extra grand a year doing it to help fund the hobby (or others), awesome. I share my work because I enjoy it, the same reason I make it in the first place.

I think everyone here on POTN is striving to improve. I know I am on a continuous basis!! Some just take snaps and careless and love their smartphones and some put great efforts into improving their skills. I work on never making excuses and continuously work extremely hard to only present the best work publicly all of the time be it casual or paid. I have freelance car magazine photographer friends that only show superb photos of work and casual. .....but they are not snapshooters.

That is all......

I don't get how you can strive to improve without continually sharing your work and receiving CC though, that's a large part of what this forum is for. I love it when people critique my photos, even if I don't agree with it the comments will make me consider how I may have done the shot differently, but when it's a blanket statement/observation that basically says "Most of the Fuji users on this forum don't use flash because they don't know how to", I "keep it real" and call that as what it is... BS

Responses in bold.

Everyday,

"I love it when people critique my photos, even if I don't agree with it the comments will make me consider how I may have done the shot differently, but when it's a blanket statement/observation that basically says "Most of the Fuji users on this forum don't use flash because they don't know how to", I "keep it real" and call that as what it is... BS Responses in bold."

Your trying to quote something that I've never said. No need to twist things or perhaps your interpretation is incorrect.

My observation was that I see very little people using flash in the Fuji forum. There is no mention of me saying "don't know how to" use flash It's a matter of when to use flash to properly execute the shot.

Here's an example...you mentioned that you seldom ever use flash but only when needed iirc. Stopping action in challenging light it is imperative to use flash especially in a gymnasium. Why do you choose not to use flash in a gymnasium with fast moving kids if you own a flash? I've seen many photo's you've posted. This is not an example of "not knowing how to use flash" but why flash was not used to stop action to prevent soft/blurry shots due to kids movement. Just remember when you give these photos away your displaying your work in photography (paid or casual snap shots). People will say "Lucas gave me these photos...what do you think?"

Uncle Bob with a fuji by adding little effort in throwing on an external flash on the hotshoe would produce completely different results. Tack sharp images stopping action in low light knowing when to use flash.

I am serious...I am not "ribbing" you. Take this advice as pure constructive criticism and not "BS". Every photo is representation of what you do behind a camera. Maybe I'm being too serious and it's not a concern to you. I digress....carry on and disregard my constructive criticism.

Let's leave it at that.....that is all.....

Using flash won't ensure you get sharp shots, you'd need a flash with a T.5 time of over 1/2000 or so do guaranty crispiness, most hot shoe flashes would not be powerful enough to light up a big area to allow this kind of time. A powerful speedlite will need at least 1/4 power to get this. Not that much light output considering that you'll have to cover a great distance. Using a Flash as a shutter is fine in the correct circumstances but you really have to know what you are doing before you start or your shots are not good. Relying on a speed light to stop fast moving action is less than ideal you would be far better using a faster shutter speed and suffering a little grain by upping your ISO a couple of stops as you're not in a controlled lighting environment. Yes adding flash can make things sharp but only if the duration of the flash is quick enough, and if you are far away you will then need a lot of power, a lot.

AlanU wrote in post #18325765
Everyday,

"I love it when people critique my photos, even if I don't agree with it the comments will make me consider how I may have done the shot differently, but when it's a blanket statement/observation that basically says "Most of the Fuji users on this forum don't use flash because they don't know how to", I "keep it real" and call that as what it is... BS Responses in bold."

Your trying to quote something that I've never said. No need to twist things or perhaps your interpretation is incorrect.

My observation was that I see very little people using flash in the Fuji forum. There is no mention of me saying "don't know how to" use flash It's a matter of when to use flash to properly execute the shot.

Here's an example...you mentioned that you seldom ever use flash but only when needed iirc. Stopping action in challenging light it is imperative to use flash especially in a gymnasium. Why do you choose not to use flash in a gymnasium with fast moving kids if you own a flash? I've seen many photo's you've posted. This is not an example of "not knowing how to use flash" but why flash was not used to stop action to prevent soft/blurry shots due to kids movement. Just remember when you give these photos away your displaying your work in photography (paid or casual snap shots). People will say "Lucas gave me these photos...what do you think?"

Uncle Bob with a fuji by adding little effort in throwing on an external flash on the hotshoe would produce completely different results. Tack sharp images stopping action in low light knowing when to use flash.

I am serious...I am not "ribbing" you. Take this advice as pure constructive criticism and not "BS". Every photo is representation of what you do behind a camera. Maybe I'm being too serious and it's not a concern to you. I digress....carry on and disregard my constructive criticism.

Let's leave it at that.....that is all.....

I didn't say I was quoting you, so no, I'm not twisting your words, go read it again and actually think about what I said.

If you ever try to go into a gym and pop flash at kids who are literally risking their lives flipping through the air you will rightfully be thrown out of the gym (they even tell everyone this at every meet). Please do not attempt to lecture me on shooting a subject that you very clearly have zero experience with.

Constructive criticism is great when it's constructive, when it's obtuse and refuses to consider the situation or counter argument then I have to roll my eyes.

Two Hot Shoes wrote in post #18325832
Using flash won't ensure you get sharp shots, you'd need a flash with a T.5 time of over 1/2000 or so do guaranty crispiness, most hot shoe flashes would not be powerful enough to light up a big area to allow this kind of time. A powerful speedlite will need at least 1/4 power to get this. Not that much light output considering that you'll have to cover a great distance. Using a Flash as a shutter is fine in the correct circumstances but you really have to know what you are doing before you start or your shots are not good. Relying on a speed light to stop fast moving action is less than ideal you would be far better using a faster shutter speed and suffering a little grain by upping your ISO a couple of stops as you're not in a controlled lighting environment. Yes adding flash can make things sharp but only if the duration of the flash is quick enough, and if you are far away you will then need a lot of power, a lot.

Yes I agree. Not certain of the power output of the EF-X500 but I'm guessing around 75 watt seconds. That will be potent enough to bounce flash in a low ceiling venue easily........ I do it all the time with my Canon 580exii or 600EX-RT.

Fuji HSS bursts seems less efficient compared to Canon but I still have more testing to confirm. Shooting flash with even 1/800 ss I bet you can easily have no blur. It's when you shoot available light only bare minimum I'd use 1/1500. I basically have zero tolerance to motion blur in any of my photos. If I ever have blur I'd have to analyze it long and hard to present that publicly or to clients. If I'm using an iphone 6+ snapshot on FB I'd even very likely not post.

Using high iso in conjunction with flash fill is a great combo of saving power on AA batteries while removing raccoon eye shadows etc.

Navigating the EF-X500 is beautiful!!! well thought out layout. The LED can also be a great quick nasty light for video. The LED output is very good. I'll have to get my lightmeter and measure.....

When you are shooting flash you can have any shutter speed you want, the flash acts as the shutter and freezes the motion, you could have a shutter at 1/30 and still freeze the action by firing off a strobe with a short spike.
That it why it is really important to know the t.5 time of your flash for any given power so you can be effective with it. If you need 1/1500 to freeze the action and have a lower shutter speed, then you need to set your flash to give a burst under that time. Otherwise you are just adding light & that is fine as it might be needed but the flash is doing little the stop motion over the shutter. As I'm sure you probably know.

The EF-X500 has a GN of ~50 so less powerful than the 600rt but if you are measuring with your meter please post your findings, these are good things to know.