Sony A9: Is Canon doomed ?

Hogloff wrote in post #18689562
It’s one thing to patent a concept...totally another thing to commercialize that concept. So far it’s Sony 1 Canon. 0 as far as stacked sensors go.

Wanna bet that one of these new stacked sensors shows up in the FF mirrorless Canon is putting out?

https://www.canonrumor​s.com …r-development-from-canon/

Mbell1975 wrote in post #18689564
Wanna bet that one of these new stacked sensors shows up in the FF mirrorless Canon is putting out?

https://www.canonrumor​s.com …r-development-from-canon/

I bet that it doesn't.

Canon may have a patent for a stacked sensor, but that doesn't mean it's anywhere near ready for production.

Canon's best sensor today is two generations behind the stacked sensor in the a9.

Either way, Canon's FF mirrorless should sell well...I just don't expect it to be the leader in terms of performance.

Mbell1975 wrote in post #18689564
Wanna bet that one of these new stacked sensors shows up in the FF mirrorless Canon is putting out?

https://www.canonrumor​s.com …r-development-from-canon/

https://www.canonrumor​s.com …announcing-for-photokina/

"As for a full frame mirrorless, we believe Nikon will get the hype for Photokina and Canon will wait until 2019 to make an official announcement. For the moment, I think all we can hope for is a development announcement."

mystik610 wrote in post #18689590
I bet that it doesn't.

Canon may have a patent for a stacked sensor, but that doesn't mean it's anywhere near ready for production.

Canon's best sensor today is two generations behind the stacked sensor in the a9.

Either way, Canon's FF mirrorless should sell well...I just don't expect it to be the leader in terms of performance.

They started the patents back in Dec and Im sure at least the beginning of production had started before then. Rumor is we wont see the FF mirrorless until 2019. Plenty of time to get those sensors ready. One of them will undoubtedly be inside the new FF mirrorless.

Mbell1975 wrote in post #18689635
They started the patents back in Dec and Im sure at least the beginning of production had started before then. Rumor is we wont see the FF mirrorless until 2019. Plenty of time to get those sensors ready. One of them will undoubtedly be inside the new FF mirrorless.

Hehe it usually years for a patent to turn into a product

mystik610 wrote in post #18689638
Hehe it usually years for a patent to turn into a product

Really? I watch Shark Tank and there are always people with products on there they are selling in bulk that still have patents pending and those are amateurs Canon are not amateurs and they aren't going to release some sub par mirrorless camera with so many people watching. Thats what the current M line was. I guarantee one of those new sensors will be in the new FF mirrorless. What do you think they have been doing the last 4-5 years? Sitting around watching paint dry? Im willing to bet at least one of those sensors has been ready to go for awhile.

Mbell1975 wrote in post #18689672
Really? I watch Shark Tank and there are always people with products on there they are selling in bulk that still have patents pending and those are amateurs Canon are not amateurs and they aren't going to release some sub par mirrorless camera with so many people watching. Thats what the current M line was. I guarantee one of those new sensors will be in the new FF mirrorless. What do you think they have been doing the last 4-5 years? Sitting around watching paint dry? Im willing to bet at least one of those sensors has been ready to go for awhile.

A patent is simply a registration of an idea or concept....doesn't mean anything physical exists. Part of my gearhead badge of honor involves reading rumors sites of all sorts....and patents are posted all the time. Most don't come into fruition, and when they do, its several years down the road. The patent for Canon's 50mp sensor was floating around for years before the 5DSR finally hit the market.

I'm not about to take this brand loyalty pissing contest to the level of comparing patents. Sony has all sorts of patents for pretty revolutionary stuff with regards to sensor design. But none of that means squat until an actual product hits the market.

Fuji/Panasonic had this organic sensor for 4-5 if not more yrs ago. Haven't yet seen it. Takes a while to make the chips and then deliver the final product using them..

mystik610 wrote in post #18689731
A patent is simply a registration of an idea or concept....doesn't mean anything physical exists. Part of my gearhead badge of honor involves reading rumors sites of all sorts....and patents are posted all the time. Most don't come into fruition, and when they do, its several years down the road. The patent for Canon's 50mp sensor was floating around for years before the 5DSR finally hit the market.

I'm not about to take this brand loyalty pissing contest to the level of comparing patents. Sony has all sorts of patents for pretty revolutionary stuff with regards to sensor design. But none of that means squat until an actual product hits the market.

Agreed but like I said, Canon is no amateur company and they aren't going to stick some 3 year old sensor in a brand new FF mirrorless they want to make a big splash with. I dont think its going to beat the high end Sony cameras, but it doesn't have to.

Mbell1975 wrote in post #18689745
Agreed but like I said, Canon is no amateur company and they aren't going to stick some 3 year old sensor in a brand new FF mirrorless they want to make a big splash with. I dont think its going to beat the high end Sony cameras, but it doesn't have to.

and if it's to compete with the A7iii, a $2000 pricepoint? They did exactly that, and stuck an ancient sensor on the 6Dii, simply to protect the 5Div, as if the 30mp and better AF wasnt enough.

I mean, how long have you shot Canon? The games they play....... if you've been with them for a few generations, then you're a man of great faith!

Charlie wrote in post #18689749
and if it's to compete with the A7iii, a $2000 pricepoint? They did exactly that, and stuck an ancient sensor on the 6Dii, simply to protect the 5Div, as if the 30mp and better AF wasnt enough.

I mean, how long have you shot Canon? The games they play....... if you've been with them for a few generations, then you're a man of great faith!

But thats the thing, Canon has no other FF mirrorless cameras to protect like they do with their DSLR lines. I dont think they are too worried about canibalizng 5DIV sales because its already several years old and a few years off from the 5DV, so its perfect timing. I fully expect them to unleash a pretty awesome FF mirrorless that shows they are serious about it.

Mbell1975 wrote in post #18689763
But thats the thing, Canon has no other FF mirrorless cameras to protect like they do with their DSLR lines. I dont think they are too worried about canibalizng 5DIV sales because its already several years old and a few years off from the 5DV, so its perfect timing. I fully expect them to unleash a pretty awesome FF mirrorless that shows they are serious about it.

Have you followed EOS-M release cycles?

That was late to the party and only 4 generations to get PDAF!

Charlie wrote in post #18689783
Have you followed EOS-M release cycles?

That was late to the party and only 4 generations to get PDAF!

...and the a7 was such a turd that Sony had to rush out the a7ii a year later and many will argue that none of the a series cameras have really matured until these last 3rd gens, a whole 5 years later. So whats your point? Oh and late to the party? The EOS M was released a year before the a7...

Mbell - I know you are obviously a Canon loyalist, but lets be real. Panasonic, Olympus, Sony all had mirrorless for years before Canon gave it their first attempt. As a Canon user of over 30 years, I have absolutely been faithful to Canon. But in recent years what they thought was important and what the market has ben moving towards are two different things. Canon has been hanging in there on their legacy, not their innovation. Canon's own started sensor patent application came months after Sony's Patent for a Multilayer Stacked CMOS Sensor. In fact Sony announced its first patented stacked sensor back in 2012.... a long time before Canon's first.

Canon's "system" is a great system. But at the individual component level, they are lacking right now. This doesn't mean you can't capture great images from them - heck a good photographer can capture great image with their phone. Canon simply is failing to innovate - they simply evolve.

The problem is Canon is a couple of generations behind both Sony and Nikon on sensor technology. Those difference don't make a huge difference in the end product, but they do change how one shoots. In the end though, it is the end product that makes a difference - the image. And all can produce fantastic images.

Leica has been doing mirrorless since the 1930s. All of these cameras are capable of capturing what you see. You just have to see. The absolute most important thing in all of this is you need to find equipment that best matches the way you see and work. No matter what that is.

Cannon is not doomed but markets have clearly changed and will continue to change. It is the nature of the beast.