Sony A9: Is Canon doomed ?

mystik610 wrote in post #18339078
So when canon dropped the fd mount it was a generational change, but Sony releases the a99II and they somehow abandoned the a-mount?

Canon did the exact same thing. They killed the FD mount lenses...yet released a new FD camera after the lenses have been shelved.

mystik610 wrote in post #18339078
So when canon dropped the fd mount it was a generational change, but Sony releases the a99II and they somehow abandoned the a-mount?

Exactly. A99II was released six months ago.

Also, people seem to forget that E-mount can adapt A-mount lenses easily and with all features, while most Canon FD lenses cannot be mounted on EF bodies (only a few can be used with an expensive adapter with corrective optics that degrades performance and increases the FL by 1.26x).

mystik610 wrote in post #18339078
So when canon dropped the fd mount it was a generational change, but Sony releases the a99II and they somehow abandoned the a-mount?

They bought Minolta in order to get their arsenal of lenses for their A-mount cameras, 10 years ago. The A-mount is like the E-mount in terms of both being electronically linked to the body. One does not 'have to' use a different physical design. Since the E mount existed due to Sony cine lens offerings, it gets to stay actively being expanded. The A-mount proved to be expedient for a time, and then it has lost its luster. The third party manufacturers have seen the handwriting on the wall, with new bodies promised but no new lenses from Sony.

With something like change from mechanical to electronic linkage, one expects that the older design cannot be suitably modified because the lens throat is insufficient to support the electronic contacts needed.

Good point about it being 30 years old. It nevertheless is all-electronic so its demise is not a must-do thing. It could continue on for more time, if Sony priorities wanted to extend it past 30 years (as the EF mount is persisting past 30, too)

Wilt wrote in post #18339097
They bought Minolta in order to get their arsenal of lenses for their A-mount cameras, 10 years ago. The A-mount is like the E-mount in terms of both being electronically linked to the body. One does not 'have to' use a different physical design. Since the E mount existed due to Sony cine lens offerings, it gets to stay actively being expanded. The A-mount proved to be expedient for a time, and then it has lost its luster. The third party manufacturers have seen the handwriting on the wall, with new bodies promised but no new lenses from Sony.

With something like change from mechanical to electronic linkage, one expects that the older design cannot be suitably modified because the lens throat is insufficient to support the electronic contacts needed.

Good point about it being 30 years old. It nevertheless is all-electronic so its demise is not a must-do thing. It could continue on for more time, if Sony priorities wanted to extend it past 30 years (as the EF mount is persisting past 30, too)

But can you not say the same thing about the E mount as it was made for the compact mirrorless cameras which allow for a much reduced flange distance, resulting in the possibility of smaller lenses. To continue with the A mount for their mirrorless line, Sony would have to abandon all notion of compact lenses, resulting in one of the benefits of the compact mirrorless systems to go away.

One of the reasons I moved to the Sony system is for the compactness.

Also...didn't Canon invent a new mount for their mirrorless system?

Hogloff wrote in post #18339107
But can you not say the same thing about the E mount as it was made for the compact mirrorless cameras which allow for a much reduced flange distance, resulting in the possibility of smaller lenses. To continue with the A mount for their mirrorless line, Sony would have to abandon all notion of compact lenses, resulting in one of the benefits of the compact mirrorless systems to go away.

One of the reasons I moved to the Sony system is for the compactness.

Also...didn't Canon invent a new mount for their mirrorless system?

Very good point about thickness of mirrorless bodies mandating a different lens, similar to Canon approach with M.
So the A-mount crowd is left with the opportunity of some newer bodies but no new lenses. That appears to be unpopular with the A-mount crowd nonetheless.

Here is a link of the list of A mount lenses. Of note...take a look at how many have been released brand new or with a redesign since Sony took over Minolta. To say Sony just bought Minolta and killed it off is so totally misguided.

https://en.wikipedia.o​rg …st_of_Sony_A-mount_lenses

Wilt wrote in post #18339111
Very good point about thickness of mirrorless bodies mandating a different lens, similar to Canon approach with M.
So the A-mount crowd is left with the opportunity of some newer bodies but no new lenses. That appears to be unpopular with the A-mount crowd nonetheless.

Take a look at the next post and tell me Sony did not provide any lenses. It sure looks to me like a full arsenal of lenses is available.

For now, Sony has been busy bringing on their mirrorless system. Releasing a new camera for their A-mount system sort of tells me they have not abadonded it, but rather have been very busy elsewhere for now. Time will tell where they go with the A-mount.

http://www.canonrumors​.com/forum/index.php?t​opic=32470.0

Canon is doomed!

http://www.canon.com …rence/pdf/conf2​017q1e.pdf


ILC unit sales +6% over 1Q 2016.
Camera $ sales +10% (forex adjusted) over 1Q 2016.

Camera unit sales including compacts are flat 0% unit change from last year.

"The interchangeable-lens camera market in developed countries continued to recover from last year’s
earthquake. In emerging markets, we also saw an easing in market contraction, particularly in China.
Against this backdrop, we expanded sales of the EOS 5D Mark IV, which captures customer demand
for such features as high-speed AF and 4K video recording.

Additionally, in Asia, where mirrorless cameras make up a large percentage of the
interchangeable-lens camera market, we expanded our lineup, broadened our sales channel beyond
camera specialty shops, and strengthened our advertising activity. As a result, we exceeded our unit
sales and market share of last year.

On top of this, this quarter, we launched our new products earlier than usual. As a result, our unit
sales increased 6% to 1.08 million units."

Hogloff wrote in post #18339107
Also...didn't Canon invent a new mount for their mirrorless system?

Indeed. And I think the EF mount will see the same decline as A-mount in the near future.

Wilt wrote in post #18339111
Very good point about thickness of mirrorless bodies mandating a different lens, similar to Canon approach with M.
So the A-mount crowd is left with the opportunity of some newer bodies but no new lenses. That appears to be unpopular with the A-mount crowd nonetheless.

The issue isn’t that mirrorless lenses have to be small (Sony’s latest FE lenses are DSLR sized), but that mirrorless AF systems are very different from the PDAF systems in DSLR’s, and as such, the AF motors in the lenses are very different and that adapting will always be sub-optimal. FE lenses use electro-magnets…EF-M lenses have stepper motors. This is why the whole notion that Canon can leverage is EF lens catalog when they make a FF camera is invalid….In order to be truly competitive in the mirrorless space, Canon too will need to build out a portfolio of native mirrorless lenses to fully leverage the capabilities of whatever mirrorless body they bring to market.

CheshireCat wrote in post #18339125
Indeed. And I think the EF mount will see the same decline as A-mount in the near future.

Maybe in 10-20 years. Sony stopped iterating their A mount lenses much longer ago than Canon is currently iterating theirs. I.e. Screw mount 135mm f/1.8 just never got updated, even long before E mount was announced (I don't know the specific years involved)?

mystik610 wrote in post #18339142
The issue isn’t that mirrorless lenses have to be small (Sony’s latest FE lenses are DSLR sized), but that mirrorless AF systems are very different from the PDAF systems in DSLR’s, and as such, the AF motors in the lenses are very different and that adapting will always be sub-optimal. FE lenses use electro-magnets…EF-M lenses have stepper motors. This is why the whole notion that Canon can leverage is EF lens catalog when they make a FF camera is invalid….In order to be truly competitive in the mirrorless space, Canon too will need to build out a portfolio of native mirrorless lenses to fully leverage the capabilities of whatever mirrorless body they bring to market.

Is Canon's M mount crop sensor only like Fujifilm's or compatible with full frame if they decide to release such a thing in the future?

Hogloff wrote in post #18339119
Take a look at the next post and tell me Sony did not provide any lenses. It sure looks to me like a full arsenal of lenses is available.

For now, Sony has been busy bringing on their mirrorless system. Releasing a new camera for their A-mount system sort of tells me they have not abadonded it, but rather have been very busy elsewhere for now. Time will tell where they go with the A-mount.

I made zero statement about the fullness and breadth of lens offering in the A mount. Any commentary about abandonment of the lens line is based upon different published commentary on the A-mount vs. E-mount which I have read and others can read, too. They are not MY statements nor conjecture, but report of what industry observers have stated. Your defensivemess of Sony need not impress me, I have no opinion on the matter, write to them.

mystik610 wrote in post #18339142
The issue isn’t that mirrorless lenses have to be small (Sony’s latest FE lenses are DSLR sized), but that mirrorless AF systems are very different from the PDAF systems in DSLR’s, and as such, the AF motors in the lenses are very different and that adapting will always be sub-optimal. FE lenses use electro-magnets…EF-M lenses have stepper motors. This is why the whole notion that Canon can leverage is EF lens catalog when they make a FF camera is invalid….In order to be truly competitive in the mirrorless space, Canon too will need to build out a portfolio of native mirrorless lenses to fully leverage the capabilities of whatever mirrorless body they bring to market.

Good points. Could it not be possible that Canon use the exact OPTICAL design of current EF lenses, and mount them in newly designed lens barrels with the newer stepper motors in lieu of exist motor driven AF, saving both time and expense and giving the M mount a full range of lenses rapidly?!

Wilt wrote in post #18339150
Good points. Could it not be possible that Canon use the exact OPTICAL design of current EF lenses, and mount them in newly designed lens barrels with the newer stepper motors in lieu of exist motor driven AF, saving both time and expense and giving the M mount a full range of lenses rapidly?!

What's wrong with USM? Aside that it makes noise when focusing for video, DPAF seems to work fine with USM lenses.