Sony A9: Is Canon doomed ?

idkdc wrote in post #18339145
Maybe in 10-20 years. Sony stopped iterating their A mount lenses much longer ago than Canon is currently iterating theirs. I.e. Screw mount 135mm f/1.8 just never got updated, even long before E mount was announced (I don't know the specific years involved)?

Methinks CheshireCat is merely infering decline in volume of EF being sold, being cannibalized by increasing sales of any newer M bodies, particularly as some of the new offerings approach A9's sophistication and capability. Not sure he is speaking about decline in development of A-mount being launched vs. slowdown in EF lenses being launched.

Wilt wrote in post #18339150
Good points. Could it not be possible that Canon use the exact OPTICAL design of current EF lenses, and mount them in newly designed lens barrels with the newer stepper motors in lieu of exist motor driven AF, saving both time and expense and giving the M mount a full range of lenses rapidly?!

mystik610 wrote in post #18339142
The issue isn’t that mirrorless lenses have to be small (Sony’s latest FE lenses are DSLR sized), but that mirrorless AF systems are very different from the PDAF systems in DSLR’s, and as such, the AF motors in the lenses are very different and that adapting will always be sub-optimal. FE lenses use electro-magnets…EF-M lenses have stepper motors. This is why the whole notion that Canon can leverage is EF lens catalog when they make a FF camera is invalid….In order to be truly competitive in the mirrorless space, Canon too will need to build out a portfolio of native mirrorless lenses to fully leverage the capabilities of whatever mirrorless body they bring to market.

I'm not quite convinced by the argument that Canon's existing EF mount lenses can't be deployed in a mirrorless system.

Two reasons: they seem to focus perfectly well and very accurately in DPAF live view mode; current Sony mirrorless system users again and again refer to how well EF lenses autofocus with their cameras, even though they have to be used in adapted mode.

What exactly is required by way of redesign and why?

Wilt wrote in post #18339155
Methinks CheshireCat is merely infering decline in volume of EF being sold, being cannibalized by increasing sales of any newer M bodies, particularly as some of the new offerings approach A9's sophistication and capability. Not sure he is speaking about decline in development of A-mount being launched vs. slowdown in EF lenses being launched.

I am speaking about both.

idkdc wrote in post #18339147
Is Canon's M mount crop sensor only like Fujifilm's or compatible with full frame if they decide to release such a thing in the future?

You probably mean: is the Canon M mount compatible with full frame sensors ?
Checking the specs, I think the answer is yes.

CheshireCat wrote in post #18339201
You probably mean: is the Canon M mount compatible with full frame sensors ?
Checking the specs, I think the answer is yes.

Having an M and a Nex on my desk thought I would remove lens off each and compare; it looks as the M might be slightly bigger than the E mount so it looks like it would be able to take a FF sensor. I don't know why people lambast the original M for what they can be bought for now its almost a disposable camera and even with the slower than others AF the 22mm is superb*.

* It seems faster than the first gen m43 cameras.

Tse/Pc, long macro, sensibly priced 70-200 F4 or F2.8, Super Teles (as previously mentioned), affordable longish primes (200/300/400mm), decent auto focus (except,perhaps, in one expensive body), reasonable batteries, higher voltage batteries (to drive lenses better), weather sealing (they are far from the best), no bodies with an integral vertical grip, good and fast support/repairs, a camera that is robust enough for use with heavy lenses (if and when they get around to making them), optical viewfinder (I was very disappointed with the A7R and Mk2) - shall I go on? Note this is just off the top of my head, I could do some research?

I did try out the Sony system when the A7R came out, and again when the A7R2 came out but the combination of lack of lens range, horrible user interface, poor battery life (now being addressed) and lack of versatility put me off.

Now we have a Sony body that looks very promising (well at least from the specs) - but at a grand more than my (new) 1DX was????

Sony bought one of the best lens families going but what on earth have they done with it? They bought an excellent camera system (that just needed investment) - doesn't seem to be much happening there either.

We all have different needs and Canon/Nikon strive (not always successfully) to meet the needs of the widest range of users - for now Sony don't. In other words not serious - yet.

If the Sony system suits you and your needs then great - use it and enjoy it. For me and the majority of photographers that I know they have little to offer.

Not having a go at anybodies views/opinions just relating my experiences. If yours differ that is fine.

Hogloff wrote in post #18339107
...

Also...didn't Canon invent a new mount for their mirrorless system?

Well I hope Canon does not abandon EF for M mount!

Hogloff wrote in post #18339114
Here is a link of the list of A mount lenses. Of note...take a look at how many have been released brand new or with a redesign since Sony took over Minolta. To say Sony just bought Minolta and killed it off is so totally misguided.

https://en.wikipedia.o​rg …st_of_Sony_A-mount_lenses

Great list, I love Wikipedia!

I do not think in any way that SONY bought it with the intention of killing it off.
No, they wanted an SLR system,. and this was the fastest way to get one.
They very clearly were working to use this system to try and compete with the other big SLR systems.

No, the decision to let A mount die was not only much more recent than when SONY bought it, but it was also pretty much of of SONY's hands,. as it was the sales of SONY DSLR that brought about the writing on the wall.

There is no question that A mount going away is a bit tragic, but at the same time there is no question that after SONY launched it's mirror-less juggernaut that it would have been just plain weird, and romantic to try to keep A mount going.

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18339410
Great list, I love Wikipedia!

I do not think in any way that SONY bought it with the intention of killing it off.
No, they wanted an SLR system,. and this was the fastest way to get one.
They very clearly were working to use this system to try and compete with the other big SLR systems.

No, the decision to let A mount die was not only much more recent than when SONY bought it, but it was also pretty much of of SONY's hands,. as it was the sales of SONY DSLR that brought about the writing on the wall.

There is no question that A mount going away is a bit tragic, but at the same time there is no question that after SONY launched it's mirror-less juggernaut that it would have been just plain weird, and romantic to try to keep A mount going.

Well it ain't gone just yet. Releasing a new state of the art camera for the mount is sure a funny way of killing it.

Hogloff wrote in post #18339415
Well it ain't gone just yet. Releasing a new state of the art camera for the mount is sure a funny way of killing it.

Just maybe it does not 'go away' but the industry pundits seem to think it is going the way of the old soldier...they just fade away.

Yes, the tactics on products is often to provide a bit of extended product continuity, so that they can state with a straight face, "Wait, we introduced the XYZ in 2017!"...before ending the line a few years later. Been there, done that with products when caught by non-availability of parts sooner than expected, and it was too costly to try to otherwise extend the line. Provide some semblance of continuity so recent buyers cannot scream quite so loud, and (maybe) give them a nice trade-in deal.
A-mount users on POTN have commented about the lack of any new A-mount lenses. I bet they can see thru the ruse of a new body.

alex66 wrote in post #18339218
Having an M and a Nex on my desk thought I would remove lens off each and compare; it looks as the M might be slightly bigger than the E mount so it looks like it would be able to take a FF sensor. I don't know why people lambast the original M for what they can be bought for now its almost a disposable camera and even with the slower than others AF the 22mm is superb*.

* It seems faster than the first gen m43 cameras.

I seen an original M and 22mm and 18-55 sell for $250. Thats basically like $40 for a camera body. Cheap I tell u.

Yep the original M came out somewhere around $800 and sold like a rock. The only way they could move any was to basically give it away.

It was truly a feeble attempt by Canon at a time when there were some great mirrorless offerings from Sony, Fuji and Olympus.

EF mount,

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doomed!

Talley wrote in post #18339424
I seen an original M and 22mm and 18-55 sell for $250. Thats basically like $40 for a camera body. Cheap I tell u.

still not worth it

I keep my M around in case my kids want to learn photography, they can toss that around.