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Thread started 21 Apr 2017 (Friday) 23:31
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I m not able to post in the actual forum yet

 
Blackey ­ Cole
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Apr 21, 2017 23:31 |  #1

Ok I was looking thru the posts in the g&n forum and some of the images just about break every rule in photography. I'm been shooting since the 70s then decided to take the nyip photography course last year.

It states for a photo to be good it should follow some if not all of the rules

1) tell a story
2) the subject should be easily ided
3) remove all distractions if possible

I think some have been doing it so long they have forgotten this


Yeah you have other rules like the rule of thirds but the three I listed need to be followed first.


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Apr 21, 2017 23:46 |  #2

Rules are made to be broken if done on purpose. Some like it, some don't.


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Apr 22, 2017 04:07 |  #3

Blackey Cole wrote in post #18334491 (external link)
Ok I was looking thru the posts in the g&n forum and some of the images just about break every rule in photography. I'm been shooting since the 70s then decided to take the nyip photography course last year.

It states for a photo to be good it should follow some if not all of the rules

1) tell a story
2) the subject should be easily ided
3) remove all distractions if possible

I think some have been doing it so long they have forgotten this


Yeah you have other rules like the rule of thirds but the three I listed need to be followed first.

I can't figure out whether you are arrogant, ignorant, joking, or some combination of the three.


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Apr 22, 2017 04:42 |  #4

Blackey Cole wrote in post #18334491 (external link)
Ok I was looking thru the posts in the g&n forum and some of the images just about break every rule in photography. I'm been shooting since the 70s then decided to take the nyip photography course last year.

It states for a photo to be good it should follow some if not all of the rules

1) tell a story
2) the subject should be easily ided
3) remove all distractions if possible

I think some have been doing it so long they have forgotten this


Yeah you have other rules like the rule of thirds but the three I listed need to be followed first.

Part of what you are saying seems to amount to ... 'When I browse the G&N section of POTN, I occasionally come across posted images that seem to me to have little artistic or technical merit. Some of them seem, strangely, even to have attracted quite a number of 'likes'' ... On that point, I'd just say 'go figure'. It comes with the territory, so to speak.

There is plenty of material in that area that has technical and/or artistic merit, however. Some of it won't be to everybody's personal taste and, if that's the case for you, just don't go there.

On the issue of rules: I think this subject has probably been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere on the forum. I'd just say, almost everywhere I see the rules laid down, I also see a qualification that says that they should really be looked at as guides or suggestions. I think they are helpful enough as a starting point, especially for people learning photography, but you have to use your eyes and your imagination to make really good images.

Lastly, it could maybe be inferred that you are suggesting POTN would benefit from community rules about the quality of what people can post. There are rules already about the nature of what can be posted and where. That's enough. There's a lot that can be learned from looking at bad photographs. I rather enjoy it and it helps me see the weaknesses in some of my own stuff and how it might be improved. And POTN is meant to be open ... and welcoming ... to all standards of photographer and works well and stays alive partly because of that. Finally, finally, who would be the quality police?


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OhLook
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Apr 22, 2017 10:27 |  #5

Blackey Cole wrote in post #18334491 (external link)
It states for a photo to be good it should follow some if not all of the rules

1) tell a story
2) the subject should be easily ided
3) remove all distractions if possible

Those are someone's rules but not everyone's rules. Rather than strain the server with an essay about all three, I'll just comment on Rule #1. Stories are, almost invariably, narratives that unfold in time. Photos show one moment in time, with a few exceptions such as some long exposures, which are rare or absent in G&N. Occasionally a still photo can imply a story, as a one-panel cartoon with no caption does, but few images in G&N are of this type. If you want to tell a story, don't take a picture. Write a story.

When I view an image, I don't expect to "hear" a story. I hope to see things like good composition and use of color–in other words, the visuals. If the image features a person, there are additional criteria. You don't judge images of landscapes by the presence or absence of storytelling, do you? Then why images of women?


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Apr 22, 2017 11:12 |  #6

OhLook wrote in post #18334739 (external link)
Stories are, almost invariably, narratives that unfold in time. Photos show one moment in time, with a few exceptions such as some long exposures, which are rare or absent in G&N. Occasionally a still photo can imply a story, as a one-panel cartoon with no caption does, but few images in G&N are of this type. If you want to tell a story, don't take a picture. Write a story.

You may be taking too literally "telling a story". I'm a writer as well as a photographer. I understand what you say about a narrative. However, telling a story in a photograph is a figure of speech. It means that it draws in the viewer more deeply than if you simply recorded patterns of color and light or dark. It implies an emotional engagement.

But back to the theme of the thread. I have heard it said in the arts (and also in writing) that one should be aware of "the rules" so that one knows when they can be broken. Slavishly following them is uninteresting. The only true rule is the goal of taking a photograph that engages the viewer's focused attention. In G/N, the subject alone certainly has the potential for that.


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OhLook
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Apr 22, 2017 11:45 |  #7

joedlh wrote in post #18334785 (external link)
You may be taking too literally "telling a story". I'm a writer as well as a photographer.

Me too. Hi!

I understand what you say about a narrative. However, telling a story in a photograph is a figure of speech. It means that it draws in the viewer more deeply than if you simply recorded patterns of color and light or dark. It implies an emotional engagement.

This definition is too broad to be much help in a rulebook. Viewers' tastes and sensibilities differ, so that a given photo will engage some and not others. Even the engaged viewers may be engaged for diverse reasons. They'll make up their own "stories." An abstraction, mere shapes and colors, will engage people who appreciate abstractions. I'd rather say that a good photo draws people in, recognizing that there are various kinds of "good" and that nothing draws everyone in.

I have heard it said in the arts (and also in writing) that one should be aware of "the rules" so that one knows when they can be broken.

Yes. I think the OP's post raises hackles because it elevates one particular set of three rules, which aren't paramount in all photographers' minds, to the status of "The Rules and Don't You Forget It!"


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Apr 23, 2017 12:44 |  #8

I think you would get a lot further here if you posted some of your work as examples of photography done right.

You can choose the forum for your posts. Given your long history of shooting and high level of expertise you would certainly quality for early admission to G&N posting but other sorts of shots would make your point,


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Apr 28, 2017 20:06 |  #9

Blackey Cole wrote in post #18334491 (external link)
2) the subject should be easily ided

I don't understand this rule.

Is the word "ided" your own homemade abbreviation for "identified"? Or does it mean something else? I Googled it, and came up with nothing conclusive, inasmuch as a pertinent definition is concerned.

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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OhLook
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Apr 28, 2017 22:21 |  #10

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18341376 (external link)
Is the word "ided" your own homemade abbreviation for "identified"?

That's how I understand it. IDed or ID'd would have been clearer.

If the subject must be clearly identified for a photo to qualify as good, there are no good abstract photos.


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Apr 28, 2017 23:49 |  #11

Blackey Cole wrote in post #18334491 (external link)
Ok I was looking thru the posts in the g&n forum and some of the images just about break every rule in photography. I'm been shooting since the 70s then decided to take the nyip photography course last year.

It states for a photo to be good it should follow some if not all of the rules

1) tell a story
2) the subject should be easily ided
3) remove all distractions if possible

I think some have been doing it so long they have forgotten this


Yeah you have other rules like the rule of thirds but the three I listed need to be followed first.

I contacted my photo lawyer and she advised me that photo law was recently amended. Photographers can now make whatever photos they want, even if the unidentified subject is a distraction to the story.


— Please feel free to offer your thoughts on how I might improve my images —

  
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Bassat
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Apr 29, 2017 01:11 |  #12

Pippan wrote in post #18341517 (external link)
I contacted my photo lawyer and she advised me that photo law was recently amended. Photographers can now make whatever photos they want, even if the unidentified subject is a distraction to the story.

This likely only applies in Australia. OP is from New Mexico, USA. This may or may not be related to the OP's post: peyote grows wild down there.


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Apr 29, 2017 03:11 |  #13

Blackey Cole wrote in post #18334491 (external link)
I'm been shooting since the 70s then decided to take the nyip photography course last year.

It states for a photo to be good it should follow some if not all of the rules

So, let me get this straight:

Despite 40 years of photography experience, you are now relying on a photo course curriculum to tell you what the rules of photography are? . Really?

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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Bassat
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Apr 29, 2017 07:10 |  #14

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18341571 (external link)
So, let me get this straight:

Despite 40 years of photography experience, you are now relying on a photo course curriculum to tell you what the rules of photography are? . Really?

.

I saw that, too. Blew me away that this didn't come from a 15-year-old fresh out of a high school photo class.


Tom

  
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Moose408
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Apr 30, 2017 12:24 |  #15

I'm not quite sure what the OP's point was, but there is some merit to the observation that many posts in the G&N forum are poor photos. They are bordering on porn, or are something a GWC would take just just because the wanted to hang out with a naked woman. They are more snapshots than anything approaching fine art.

The group threads are the worse examples of this and seem to just be there to objectify some part of the nude body.

I'm all for people who are posting because they critique and to get better and even if they look like snapshots I'm willing to offer suggestions, but many here don't seem to want that critique.


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I m not able to post in the actual forum yet
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