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Thread started 27 May 2017 (Saturday) 12:47
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Canon shooter's first Impressions of the Sony a9 (yes I actually own one)

 
Jarvis ­ Creative ­ Studios
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Post edited over 6 years ago by Jarvis Creative Studios. (5 edits in all)
     
May 27, 2017 12:47 |  #1

So let me be clear, these are my FIRST first impressions. Like right off the bat stuff. I've barely even messed around with the camera. The battery is on the charger (it came completely drained) and I don't even own any E mount glass yet (my first lens is coming on Tuesday, which is when the camera was scheduled to be here as well, but I got it early). So this will be simply first impressions of the camera body, controls, build quality, etc.

About me: I'm a professional commercial, event, and wedding photographer who makes 100% of his income from photography. I primarily deal with corporations. I also dabble in model and fashion work for fun (no pay).

So here goes. I will be making a few comparisons to my Canon 5D3 which is my current primary camera for professional work. The first thing I checked on this camera was the joystick. I have been eyeing Sony for a really long time but one of my deal breakers is not having a joystick. You may have seen my thread where I went from being super pumped / sold on the Sony a99ii to no longer being interested. Main two reasons were lack of Sony loyalty to A-mount glass and many reports of shotty craftsmanship in the joystick. Well rest assured that the a9 joystick is up to par. Testing it side by side with my 5D3 joystick I prefer the a9. It's stiffer, the nubs are more pronounced, and the center button is "clickier" with slightly more travel. Granted I am tested a 5 year old + camera joystick vs. a brand new one, and all things considered they are almost identical (minus the nubs). So that's a tip of the hat to Canon's build quality. BTW, I'm not sure exactly how old my 5D3 is, I bought it second hand, so it may not be 5 years old. But it's to be seen if Sony's joystick will stand the test of time. Joystick gets 5 out of 5 stars (as of right now).

Next thing I checked were the ergonomics. This is the biggest argument traditional DSLR shooters (I'll call them traditionalists from here) have against the Sony mirrorless system. I was one of them. I try to never openly make personal attacks against other camera systems, but up until the a9 I knew Sony mirrorless would never work for me due to the ergonomics (remember the joystick thing?) and battery issues. I do have to say that the ergonomics are better than I expected, but not perfect. The camera is shockingly comfortable in my hand. Way more comfortable than I thought it would be. I bought the grip extension (and the battery grip but it's still on its way) and with the grip extension this thing is a dream in the hand! After holding it for just a few minutes, then picking up my 5D3 I already much preferred the Sony. The 5D3 grip feels unnecessarily fat and the weight feels like it will break my wrist. Without the grip extension the Sony would be too small, but it's perfect for my large hands. Reminds me of my subcompact pistol. Once I added a Pierce grip extension for my pinky to join the party, that gun became a dream to shoot. All is not perfect with the grip extension though. I wish they would have made the bottom more level. It is curved on the bottom which makes it awkwardly lean while put on a table. It is not stable at all and would easily fall over if prompted. Well see how it does with some glass on it as well when it comes in. Will I still love the grip when my fingers are losing major real estate while rocking huge G-Master lenses? We'll have to see. The new implementation of the dials is fantastic. I've seen in videos online that some people have said the dial on the left is pointless (with the different shooting speed modes and focus modes). I disagree. These are some of the things I change most often on my 5D3 during a wedding or event. I am a bit worried that in low light I won't immediately know which setting I turned the dial to, but the white on black on the dial does stand out very well, and checking the screen for confirmation would still be quicker than on the 5D3. Having to light up the top LCD in low light and then change focus modes is a PIA. Next we go to button and dial placement. Everything is not perfect here unfortunately. While most buttons feel like they're where they should be, some do not. I'm not a fan of the front dial placement. I wish somehow they could have put it on top like the Canon dial (one used for SS). It feels very cramped and awkward to get to. I want to use my shooting finger to turn it but my middle finger is in the way. I want to use my middle finger but it's the one primarily gripping the camera and it no longer seems secure. And that's with no glass on the camera. I'm sure it will be worse when adding weight. So as of right now ergonomics get 4 out of 5 stars because my only real complaint is the front dial. I've long thought the ergonomics of the Canon 7D (passed on to the 5D3, 4, and 7DII) were the best on any camera ever, and the a9 (while better than any Sony mirroless before) has not swayed that opinion. EDIT: Just btw, because I'm sure some of you were wondering, the lack of buttons to the left of the screen does not bother me. I only ever used the playback button, delete button, and zoom button on the 5D3 (rate and picture style were pointless to me) and those are all easily accessible on the back of the a9. No issues there.

Custom functions: If any non Sony mirrorless user complains about the lack of ergonomics on Sony mirrorless, you can guarantee that one of the first things a Sony user will respond with is, "You can customize the whole camera. Any button can do what you want. You're just not customizing it to how you like it." Well, if there are any Sony mirroless users of that mindset could you please kindly tell me your secrets? Because unless I'm missing something, my 5D3 blows the a9 out of the water in custom controls. For what it's worth, I think most buttons and dials feel like they're in the right spot with the right function already on the a9, but there are a few changes I would like to make that I couldn't figure out. First, I would like to move the aperture control from the from dial to the back rolling dial (the one with disp and ISO on it). It does not appear to be an option. All it's letting me do is reverse which dial uses SS and aperture. Besides that I think all the buttons right out of the box are very well thought out as far as functionality goes. Most do what you would think they should for the place they're at (at least coming from Canon). But if you go to the custom function menu on the 5D3, it is fantastic. It shows every button on a diagram of the camera, and let's you change the buttons to almost whatever you want. The Sony, for all the talk by Sony mirrorless users about customization, is quite lacking (unless there is some user error happening). I was expecting much more. EDIT: I found out how to customize all the buttons, including turning the back rolling dial to aperture. It was slightly un-intuitive at first, but after finding it out, I have found that there is almost unlimited customization. Customization gets 5 out of 5 stars.

Build Quality: Feels solid, but it's no Canon 5D3. I would not trust it in the rain (or even a drizzle). Mainly because of how much it just hurt my wallet, but I've been out in the rain with my 5D3, and while nervous, I was still willing to do it. I don't think I would be willing with the Sony a9. It does feel well made though. I have no complaints about any of the buttons, dials, switches, or flaps. All feel pretty robust and very well built. If I were to come up with anything, the lens mount release button feels a bit spongier than I'm used to, but that's not a real complaint as long as it can do it's job. Build Quality is 4 out of 5 stars.

Autofocus, battery life, EVF, back screen, IQ, and video: N/A. Will add more when my lens comes in. The only lens I purchased to far was the Zeiss 35mm f2.8. It will be here next Tuesday. I wanted something small to take on vacation next week. This lens will probably not be part of my professional setup (I basically just use a 24-70 and 70-200) but will be a great lens for travel. The lens also has great IQ so should do well for IQ and video tests.


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Sony ZV-1 || Sony a7RIV || Sony a9 || Sony a1 || Sony FE 20mm f1.8 G || Sony FE 24-70 f2.8 GM || Sony FE 50mm f1.2 GM || Sony FE 90mm f2.8 Macro G OSS || Sony FE 135mm f1.8 GM || Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS || Godox speedlights and strobes

  
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Jarvis ­ Creative ­ Studios
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May 27, 2017 13:19 |  #2

I feel like I should also add a category for Menu System since this has been a common complaint on Sony in the past.

Menu System: I think it's great. While very slightly less intuitive than Canon's, I feel Sony has to have been taking tips from Canon (can't vouch for Nikon, never used their menus). The menu and Fn button do everything I need them to, and pretty quickly at that. 4.5 out of 5 stars.


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Sony ZV-1 || Sony a7RIV || Sony a9 || Sony a1 || Sony FE 20mm f1.8 G || Sony FE 24-70 f2.8 GM || Sony FE 50mm f1.2 GM || Sony FE 90mm f2.8 Macro G OSS || Sony FE 135mm f1.8 GM || Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS || Godox speedlights and strobes

  
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May 27, 2017 13:59 as a reply to  @ Jarvis Creative Studios's post |  #3

Thanks Jarvis. I'm ready to pull the trigger, but I do team sports games and T&I. I'm really interested in low light capabilities vs the 5D3 (and 1DXII). A lot of the games I shoot are under stadium lighting, and my 7D is my game camera now. While I do have a 5D3 also, I enjoy the frame rate of the 7D. I get away with the 6400 ISO on the 7D, but would like to know how the A9 stacks up. Thanks for the review so far, eagerly waiting for the rest. I can have a A9 in my hands with lens and grip in a few days, but..........jury still out.


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May 27, 2017 14:18 |  #4

Grumpy_one wrote in post #18364309 (external link)
Thanks Jarvis. I'm ready to pull the trigger, but I do team sports games and T&I. I'm really interested in low light capabilities vs the 5D3 (and 1DXII). A lot of the games I shoot are under stadium lighting, and my 7D is my game camera now. While I do have a 5D3 also, I enjoy the frame rate of the 7D. I get away with the 6400 ISO on the 7D, but would like to know how the A9 stacks up. Thanks for the review so far, eagerly waiting for the rest. I can have a A9 in my hands with lens and grip in a few days, but..........jury still out.

I will be more than happy to compare the 5D3 and a9 low light performance once my 35mm gets here on tuesday. And I do have to say, if you use the 7D at 6400 you're a much braver man than I ever was when I had that camera haha. Max Yuryev said he would feel more than comfortable using the a9 up through 12,800 ISO, and it really starts to break down at 25,000+. But I never dared going over 2500 ISO in normal situations on my 7D during weddings. Maybe 3200 in the most dire situations. I try to stay under 3200 on my 5D3 but will go to 6400 if necessary, but I feel like I'm more picky than most.


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May 27, 2017 19:35 as a reply to  @ Jarvis Creative Studios's post |  #5

When shooting live sports under stadium lighting, no choice to keep shutter speed up. This is sooc. And it was raining, so some of those "dots" in the dark area's are rain drops.

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1DX II, Canon 7D Gripped, 5D3, 24-70L II, 70-200L 2.8 IS Mk I, 85 1.8, Pocket Wizard II triggers, assorted speedlites and modifiers, 580EX, 580EXII, YN560's (6 or so) 50 1.4, t/c 1.4 MkII
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May 27, 2017 19:38 as a reply to  @ Grumpy_one's post |  #6

great review, thanks




  
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May 27, 2017 20:17 |  #7

Congrats on the cam!

I've been shooting paid work on a7 bodies for 2+ years now and have found the ergonomics to be fine even with larger lenses like the 70-200GM. Very glad that they released that grip extension...its expensive for what it is, but the bodies do need to be about an inch and a half taller to fit your pinky on the body and hand-hold the camera with a heavy lens for extended periods of time. I've been using leather half cases, which add some height the body, to improve the grip and have been happy with that.

The controls seem cramped at first, but the buttons and wheels are very thoughtfully placed and you actually have access to more controls when looking through the viewfinder than a typical Canon DSLR....as you found out you can map most of the cameras features to whatever button or wheel you like. If you happen to have a native lens with a focus hold button on it, you can actually map that button to a custom feature as well. (I have mine mapped to eye focus). Lastly, the function menu can be fully customized as well, and you can actually toggle the function menu via the EVF so you can make deeper adjustments while composing a photo.


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May 27, 2017 21:15 |  #8

Grumpy_one wrote in post #18364484 (external link)
When shooting live sports under stadium lighting, no choice to keep shutter speed up. This is sooc. And it was raining, so some of those "dots" in the dark area's are rain drops.
Hosted photo: posted by Grumpy_one in
./showthread.php?p=183​64484&i=i88917949
forum: Changing Camera Brands

Yes, shooting sports (especially juvenile) can lead to some very precarious lighting situations indeed. That's very clean for 6400 ISO on a 7D though. Looks quite good to me.


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May 27, 2017 21:20 |  #9

mystik610 wrote in post #18364513 (external link)
Congrats on the cam!

I've been shooting paid work on a7 bodies for 2+ years now and have found the ergonomics to be fine even with larger lenses like the 70-200GM. Very glad that they released that grip extension...its expensive for what it is, but the bodies do need to be about an inch and a half taller to fit your pinky on the body and hand-hold the camera with a heavy lens for extended periods of time. I've been using leather half cases, which add some height the body, to improve the grip and have been happy with that.

The controls seem cramped at first, but the buttons and wheels are very thoughtfully placed and you actually have access to more controls when looking through the viewfinder than a typical Canon DSLR....as you found out you can map most of the cameras features to whatever button or wheel you like. If you happen to have a native lens with a focus hold button on it, you can actually map that button to a custom feature as well. (I have mine mapped to eye focus). Lastly, the function menu can be fully customized as well, and you can actually toggle the function menu via the EVF so you can make deeper adjustments while composing a photo.

Awesome! Thanks for the tips. Yes I'm finding it to be very intuitive already. I think it is going to help immensely with my work flow in some areas. For example, I have a bad habit of tilting the image a bit. Well the level on the evf will cure that. I also have a bad habit of putting family portraits off to one side when I have to do a lot of them (think south Asian wedding). Well I turned on the rule of thirds grid and it will help me get them smack in the middle even when I've taken the same shot over and over. These are two things that require extra editing with the 5d3, cured just like that hopefully.


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May 27, 2017 23:47 |  #10
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dont worry about the build quality :) I used my a7rii in rain few times, zero trouble there :)


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May 27, 2017 23:50 |  #11
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some a9 shots, only had it for 2 days, first day was horrible weather with rain, 30 minutes after camera arrived thunderstorm started.

sorry for hijack ;)

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May 27, 2017 23:50 |  #12
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May 28, 2017 06:48 |  #13

Jarvis Creative Studios wrote in post #18364539 (external link)
Awesome! Thanks for the tips. Yes I'm finding it to be very intuitive already. I think it is going to help immensely with my work flow in some areas. For example, I have a bad habit of tilting the image a bit. Well the level on the evf will cure that. I also have a bad habit of putting family portraits off to one side when I have to do a lot of them (think south Asian wedding). Well I turned on the rule of thirds grid and it will help me get them smack in the middle even when I've taken the same shot over and over. These are two things that require extra editing with the 5d3, cured just like that hopefully.

Yes those levels really help. The pitch level helps with large group shots so you don't get wonky distortion when shooting with a wide angle...I often find that I have to pull the camera away from my face and use the rear LCD to frame the shot at the right angle to get the pitch right.

I've also found that that live-view helps tremendously with getting the ambient exposure correct...particularly since you'll want to leverage the dynamic range of the sensor when contending with high contrast light shooting outdoor portraits for instance. You basically want to expose for the highlights since you can recover the detail in the shadows very easily.

Fred Miranda came up with an ETTR technique that is basically the standard for shooting with a Sony cam these days:

http://www.fredmiranda​.com/forum/topic/13832​82 (external link)

I also noticed that the a6500 has a new metering mode that meters for the highlights....I've only had the camera for a couple of days and its been overcast here so I haven't had a chance to try it, but it seems that this will ETTR the scene automatically. I'm assuming the a9 has this feature too. I also noticed that the a6500 (probably the a9) can spot meter at the AF point...something you really don't want to do on a Sony sensor (because you want to leverage the DR), but really wanted back when I shot Canon.


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May 28, 2017 09:27 |  #14

mystik610 wrote in post #18364727 (external link)
You basically want to expose for the highlights since you can recover the detail in the shadows very easily.

A lot of people are saying this is lacking on the A9. DPreview did a whole article on it. Very concerning. I'm going to have to so my own tests.


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May 28, 2017 10:48 |  #15
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Jarvis Creative Studios wrote in post #18364801 (external link)
A lot of people are saying this is lacking on the A9. DPreview did a whole article on it. Very concerning. I'm going to have to so my own tests.

It is... Not as good as a7rii but much better then 1dxii and D5.


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Canon shooter's first Impressions of the Sony a9 (yes I actually own one)
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