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FORUMS Sony Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Sony Cameras 
Thread started 09 Jun 2017 (Friday) 10:57
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Sony Lounge Thread MKIII (All Sony cameras welcome)

 
David ­ Arbogast
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Post edited over 1 year ago by David Arbogast. (3 edits in all)
     
Jun 09, 2017 22:18 |  #61

navydoc wrote in post #18375012 (external link)
David, to my eyes, the reds in the Coca Cola sign seems a bit too warm, especially because of the color temp. of the street lamp. You may disagree with it but I wondered how the sign would look if the reds were...redder. So, I added a hue/saturation adjustment layer and changed the blend mode to Luminosity, selected the reds and moved the lightness slider to darken. I also bumped the reds saturation up while still in that blend mode and came up with the result below.

Only the reds were affected by this adjustment.

[GIFS ARE NOT RENDERED IN QUOTES]

It's not the street lamps; it's that I may have (in your opinion) overdone it with the Skylight in Color Efex Pro. I'll consider reducing it some. Regardless of the red hue, I do think it might be a good idea to reduce the luminance in the red - I like the increased contrast in your edit (though not so much).

[EDIT: just updated with a shift to the red hue. Thanks for your suggestion Gene. :)]


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Jun 09, 2017 22:28 |  #62

David Arbogast wrote in post #18375013 (external link)
It's not the street lamps; it's that I may have (in your opinion) overdone it with the Skylight in Color Efex Pro. I'll consider reducing it some. Regardless of the red hue, I do think it might be a good idea to reduce the luminance in the red - I like the increased contrast in your edit (though not so much).

My post was only a suggestion prompted by how I perceived it. Whether you feel anything needs to be adjusted and to what degree is entirely up to you of course. I should also add that either way, I like the image. To me, it's reminiscent of times past.


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Jun 09, 2017 22:29 |  #63

navydoc wrote in post #18375012 (external link)
David, to my eyes, the reds in the Coca Cola sign seems a bit too warm, especially because of the color temp. of the street lamp. You may disagree with it but I wondered how the sign would look if the reds were...redder. So, I added a hue/saturation adjustment layer and changed the blend mode to Luminosity, selected the reds and moved the lightness slider to darken. I also bumped the reds saturation up while still in that blend mode and came up with the result below.

Only the reds were affected by this adjustment.

[GIFS ARE NOT RENDERED IN QUOTES]

great job Gene. I will try your technique.


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David ­ Arbogast
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Post edited over 1 year ago by David Arbogast. (6 edits in all)
     
Jun 09, 2017 22:39 |  #64

navydoc wrote in post #18375019 (external link)
To me, it's reminiscent of times past.

Regarding times past, Milledgeville, GA is very interesting. Here are some blurbs from the town's website:

Milledgeville History
Our proud history began in 1803, when the state of Georgia searched for a site for its new capital. Because this area offered a central location and ample springs, it was the perfect spot.

The planned capital city took shape and was given the name Milledgeville in honor of John Milledge, governor of Georgia (1802-1806) and donor of the land for the University of Georgia. Located on the fall line of the Oconee River, Milledgeville is the only city in the U.S., with the exception of Washington D.C., actually designed to be a capital city. For more than 60 years, we remained the capital during a period of state history that witnessed appearances by many notable figures. Many area homes and structures survived the periodic fires and willful destruction of the War Between the States. For on a bitterly cold November day, General William T. Sherman and 30,000 Federal troops marched in Milledgeville. Learn more about Milledgeville's role in the Civil War.

With the removal of the capital to Atlanta during reconstruction, Milledgeville experienced an economic downturn. By the late 19th and 20th century, improved lighting, streets, telephones, and water supply encouraged new building and commerce. The results of a slow growing economy contributed to a wealth of well-preserved federal style architecture enhanced by noteworthy Greek Revival, Victorian and Classic Revival houses that inhabit the city still today.


Georgia's Antebellum Trail is a 100 mile trek through seven historic communities that escaped Sherman’s burning march through Georgia. Athens lies at the north, Macon is the southern gateway and Milledgeville sits in the middle of the Trail. You can spend your days on Georgia’s Antebellum Trail enjoying history, shopping and dining. Start your self-guided tour today.


I have a lot of work to do to capture this town...I was too rushed and too side-tracked yesterday, but will be going back (as well as to lovely Madison) soon. Below is a photo taken on the Georgia College campus with my a7R II and Batis 18mm. It doesn't look amazing, but something wonderful was blooming and it sure smelled amazing. :)

IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4241/35207100115_09acec8bd2_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/VD8A​gv  (external link) Georgia College (external link) by David Arbogast (external link), on Flickr

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Post edited over 1 year ago by navydoc.
     
Jun 09, 2017 23:16 |  #65

David Arbogast wrote in post #18375027 (external link)
Regarding times past, Milledgeville, GA is very interesting. Here are some blurbs from the town's website:

Milledgeville History
Our proud history began in 1803, when the state of Georgia searched for a site for its new capital. Because this area offered a central location and ample springs, it was the perfect spot.

The planned capital city took shape and was given the name Milledgeville in honor of John Milledge, governor of Georgia (1802-1806) and donor of the land for the University of Georgia. Located on the fall line of the Oconee River, Milledgeville is the only city in the U.S., with the exception of Washington D.C., actually designed to be a capital city. For more than 60 years, we remained the capital during a period of state history that witnessed appearances by many notable figures. Many area homes and structures survived the periodic fires and willful destruction of the War Between the States. For on a bitterly cold November day, General William T. Sherman and 30,000 Federal troops marched in Milledgeville. Learn more about Milledgeville's role in the Civil War.

With the removal of the capital to Atlanta during reconstruction, Milledgeville experienced an economic downturn. By the late 19th and 20th century, improved lighting, streets, telephones, and water supply encouraged new building and commerce. The results of a slow growing economy contributed to a wealth of well-preserved federal style architecture enhanced by noteworthy Greek Revival, Victorian and Classic Revival houses that inhabit the city still today.

Georgia's Antebellum Trail is a 100 mile trek through seven historic communities that escaped Sherman’s burning march through Georgia. Athens lies at the north, Macon is the southern gateway and Milledgeville sits in the middle of the Trail. You can spend your days on Georgia’s Antebellum Trail enjoying history, shopping and dining. Start your self-guided tour today.

I have a lot of work to do to capture this town...I was too rushed and too side-tracked yesterday, but will be going back (as well as to lovely Madison) soon. Below is a photo taken on the Georgia College campus with my a7R II and Batis 18mm. It doesn't look amazing, but something wonderful was blooming and it sure smelled amazing. :)

QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/VD8A​gv  (external link) Georgia College (external link) by David Arbogast (external link), on Flickr

Thanks for sharing some of the history of Milledgeville. I'm looking forward to seeing more of your photos from there.

I like the adjustment you made to the reds in the Coca Cola sign too.


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Post edited over 1 year ago by mystik610. (3 edits in all)
     
Jun 09, 2017 23:56 |  #66

In case anyone is interested to know how the a7rII stacks up against the a9 at high ISO, I did a quick and dirty test and they're basically the same. It's good and bad IMO. On one end, the a7rII does really well at high ISO...on the other end, at half the resolution, you'd expect the a9 to be 1 stop better than the a7rII and neck and neck with the a7s.

A couple other takeaways as I did this....Sony did us a huge favor by allowing the lenses to focus wide open in low light as this was easier to do than when I did it last week. Technically on the 85GM it isn't focusing wide open....it looks like it focuses at F2. This only works when live view display is set to off, so it was also nice that they added the ability to map the live view toggle to the custom buttons and menu.

a9 focuses much better in low light than the a9. a7rII sort of struggled even focusing wide open. Also a9 wakes up and focuses basically immediately....a7rII is slow to wake-up. This has always bothered me and I have missed shots because of this.

Oh and eye AF works much better on the a9, as it can find the eye even when your subjects face takes up a small part of the frame.

a7rII

IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4203/35208953595_7f8583682f_b.jpg
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a9

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IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/VoGN​J7  (external link) a9 12800 (external link) by Carlo Alcala (external link), on Flickr

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Post edited over 1 year ago by vinmunoz.
     
Jun 10, 2017 00:18 |  #67

thanks for this info pre. did you set the same white balance on both because as I look at it the RII has better color.


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Jun 10, 2017 00:24 |  #68

vinmunoz wrote in post #18375078 (external link)
thanks for this info pre. did you set the same white balance in both because as I look at it the RII has better color.

Yeah I noticed that too. I looked into it and I think its because my a7rII is in adobe rgb and the a9 is in sgb.


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David ­ Arbogast
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Jun 10, 2017 00:47 |  #69

Yesterday I was perusing the dpreview forum (not a member, but I lurk there on occasion), and I ran across a review of the upcoming 16-35mm GM and 12-24mm G. A couple of really interesting surprises in the review:

1. The author's FE 16-35mm f/4 is sharper in the corners than the 16-35mm GM he was testing. This runs counter to some of what I had read, but wouldn't surprise me.
2. The 12-24mm is impressively sharp with outstanding flare and CA control. I'm on record being doubtful that it will be very good, but the review images suggest it will be quite great (for an extreme wa zoom). That really gives me a lot to think about. The size of both lens is pretty amazing, but especially the 12-24mm when compared to Sigma's 12-24mm or Canon's 11-24mm behemoths.

I know people don't like links, but just in case anyone wants to view what I'm referencing, here is the link to the 12-24mm review (the 16-35 comparison review is easy to find on his site): http://www.alinpopescu​.eu …nds-review-lago-maggiore/ (external link)


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Jun 10, 2017 01:20 |  #70

David Arbogast wrote in post #18375092 (external link)
Yesterday I was perusing the dpreview forum (not a member, but I lurk there on occasion), and I ran across a review of the upcoming 16-35mm GM and 12-24mm G. A couple of really interesting surprises in the review:

1. The author's FE 16-35mm f/4 is sharper in the corners than the 16-35mm GM he was testing. This runs counter to some of what I had read, but wouldn't surprise me.
2. The 12-24mm is impressively sharp with outstanding flare and CA control. I'm on record being doubtful that it will be very good, but the review images suggest it will be quite great (for an extreme wa zoom). That really gives me a lot to think about. The size of both lens is pretty amazing, but especially the 12-24mm when compared to Sigma's 12-24mm or Canon's 11-24mm behemoths.

I know people don't like links, but just in case anyone wants to view what I'm referencing, here is the link to the 12-24mm review (the 16-35 comparison review is easy to find on his site): http://www.alinpopescu​.eu …nds-review-lago-maggiore/ (external link)

I saw that review, and I'm not too convinced.

1. not tripod mounted
2. DOF may be an issue, view is far from flat.
3. GM sharper stopped down (equal by 6.3, pulls ahead at 8), so I'm thinking DOF may be an issue.

his 12mm crops are very impressive, best I've seen. Unfortunately no ND filters, that's pretty much the reason I got the 16-35, ND shooting. If one can be made, in 100mm form....... that would make my decision much tougher.


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Jun 10, 2017 02:23 |  #71

Subscribed


Sony A7RII and a bunch of lenses.

  
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Jun 10, 2017 04:44 |  #72

mystik610 wrote in post #18375063 (external link)
In case anyone is interested to know how the a7rII stacks up against the a9 at high ISO, I did a quick and dirty test and they're basically the same. It's good and bad IMO. On one end, the a7rII does really well at high ISO...on the other end, at half the resolution, you'd expect the a9 to be 1 stop better than the a7rII and neck and neck with the a7s.

A couple other takeaways as I did this....Sony did us a huge favor by allowing the lenses to focus wide open in low light as this was easier to do than when I did it last week. Technically on the 85GM it isn't focusing wide open....it looks like it focuses at F2. This only works when live view display is set to off, so it was also nice that they added the ability to map the live view toggle to the custom buttons and menu.

a9 focuses much better in low light than the a9. a7rII sort of struggled even focusing wide open. Also a9 wakes up and focuses basically immediately....a7rII is slow to wake-up. This has always bothered me and I have missed shots because of this.

Oh and eye AF works much better on the a9, as it can find the eye even when your subjects face takes up a small part of the frame.

a7rII

QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/VDi6​f4  (external link) a7rII 12800 (external link) by Carlo Alcala (external link), on Flickr

a9

QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/VoGN​J7  (external link) a9 12800 (external link) by Carlo Alcala (external link), on Flickr

A part of me is thinking with the sensor being optimized for speed, the fast readout has something to do with the not as great high ISO performance. Also from the results that I see the mid range of ISO (1600-6400) seems to be the sweet spot with lower ISO not as great as the a7rII and high ISO not as great as the a7s. That does make sense if true since the a9 used in sports and action sequences with faster shutter speeds would often not be at the lower ISO range and might not be at the 12,800 range. If the FPS was dialed back to say 15 or so max, one wonders if ISO performance could be improved, but we're talking hypotheticals right now.

I finally had a chance to get my hands on the a9 and its close to an ideal camera for me as there is out there. I've mentioned before how the dual card slots is big for me. I'm sitting here typing on my iPad mini with files ingested from my 6500. Have 2,700 images imported but because it's importing the raw and jpeg, it's taking up 100GB of my 128GB iPad mini. With a dual card camera the single jpeg import would take up 20-25GB most likely. Question is do I need to keep 2,700 images at once? Of course not. But for archiving, for photo book printing, etc it makes it easier than having to sit there and selectively pick each image on he back of the camera having to wirelessly import.

Like Carlos mentioned, the wakes, shot to shot, etc is super impressive. My 6500 is slow to start and I've missed shots as well. same goes for battery life. Another thing I noticed if the lack of screen dimming when shooting video. Try taking a 6500 and shooting video on the beach. You're literally shooting blind if you're using the screen, it dims so much that you can hardly see what you're shooting. The record button being moved if a great small change. I don't shoot a ton of video, so the lack of s-log and PP don't bother me as much, but what I do is take a lot of short clips of my kids (10-30 seconds) and having the record button easy to press with my thumb is a fantastic move.

And the AF just hits. Eye AF is tremendous. The 24MP gives me enough latitude in the files while maintaining enough DR and smaller size as opposed to the 42. If I was primarily a landscape or studio shooter then I think of trading an a7rII for the a9. But the a9 is so much more than a sports/action camera. It's a well rounded camera that exceeds at almost every situation that I personally would use it for. Of course I would've liked it if it was priced at say $3,500 and it probably would've sold more at that price. But from what I can tell, they're not having any issues finding buyers at $4,500 which is good and bad at the same time. It gives them more money to pump into R&D but it gives seems to raise the ceiling into what consumers are willing to pay. What people do with their disposable income is a personal choice, but if the ceiling keeps on getting raised and people are willing to pay $4,500 for the a9, whose to say they won't pay $5,500 for an a9r? And suddenly the hobbyist or enthusiast might find themselves squeezed out of the picture. No one needs to be an early adopter, but I would hate it if enthusiasts aren't able to financially afford a camera until its well into or at the end of the product cycle. I know plenty of people who are just now being able to afford the original a7r, maybe in 10 years they'll be able to get an a9r.


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Jun 10, 2017 05:05 |  #73

Almost missed this thread! But here i am now :)


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Jun 10, 2017 06:50 |  #74

TMaG82 wrote in post #18375138 (external link)
A part of me is thinking with the sensor being optimized for speed, the fast readout has something to do with the not as great high ISO performance. Also from the results that I see the mid range of ISO (1600-6400) seems to be the sweet spot with lower ISO not as great as the a7rII and high ISO not as great as the a7s. That does make sense if true since the a9 used in sports and action sequences with faster shutter speeds would often not be at the lower ISO range and might not be at the 12,800 range. If the FPS was dialed back to say 15 or so max, one wonders if ISO performance could be improved, but we're talking hypotheticals right now.

I finally had a chance to get my hands on the a9 and its close to an ideal camera for me as there is out there. I've mentioned before how the dual card slots is big for me. I'm sitting here typing on my iPad mini with files ingested from my 6500. Have 2,700 images imported but because it's importing the raw and jpeg, it's taking up 100GB of my 128GB iPad mini. With a dual card camera the single jpeg import would take up 20-25GB most likely. Question is do I need to keep 2,700 images at once? Of course not. But for archiving, for photo book printing, etc it makes it easier than having to sit there and selectively pick each image on he back of the camera having to wirelessly import.

Like Carlos mentioned, the wakes, shot to shot, etc is super impressive. My 6500 is slow to start and I've missed shots as well. same goes for battery life. Another thing I noticed if the lack of screen dimming when shooting video. Try taking a 6500 and shooting video on the beach. You're literally shooting blind if you're using the screen, it dims so much that you can hardly see what you're shooting. The record button being moved if a great small change. I don't shoot a ton of video, so the lack of s-log and PP don't bother me as much, but what I do is take a lot of short clips of my kids (10-30 seconds) and having the record button easy to press with my thumb is a fantastic move.

And the AF just hits. Eye AF is tremendous. The 24MP gives me enough latitude in the files while maintaining enough DR and smaller size as opposed to the 42. If I was primarily a landscape or studio shooter then I think of trading an a7rII for the a9. But the a9 is so much more than a sports/action camera. It's a well rounded camera that exceeds at almost every situation that I personally would use it for. Of course I would've liked it if it was priced at say $3,500 and it probably would've sold more at that price. But from what I can tell, they're not having any issues finding buyers at $4,500 which is good and bad at the same time. It gives them more money to pump into R&D but it gives seems to raise the ceiling into what consumers are willing to pay. What people do with their disposable income is a personal choice, but if the ceiling keeps on getting raised and people are willing to pay $4,500 for the a9, whose to say they won't pay $5,500 for an a9r? And suddenly the hobbyist or enthusiast might find themselves squeezed out of the picture. No one needs to be an early adopter, but I would hate it if enthusiasts aren't able to financially afford a camera until its well into or at the end of the product cycle. I know plenty of people who are just now being able to afford the original a7r, maybe in 10 years they'll be able to get an a9r.

Yeah the sensor absolutely sacrifices DR and high ISO performance for speed.....granted the high ISO performance is still really good, but for it to not be better than the a7rII at half the resolution, its clear a decision was made to prioritize speed. I'm sure that a slower 24MP BSI sensor could achieve a7s high ISO performance, but TBH, I've found the a7rII to be as good as I need it to be at high ISO...provided I get the exposure right in the field since there's less DR at high ISO.

I'm curious to see how the DR stacks up at base ISO in real world shooting. DR is really useful for my outdoor portraits and my feeling is that the a7rII will get the nod when I'm shooting portraits and my subjects are heavily backlit.

Also, I need to stop pixel peeping the a9 files because at 100% crop, the drop in resolution and the AA filter is noticeable. It's fine at normal crop, but I often check the focus of my portraits at 100% crop in post and thus far the a9 files don't have the punch at the critical focus point that the a7rII does.


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Jun 10, 2017 07:01 |  #75

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IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/VAe2​GQ  (external link) _DSC0311 (external link) by Carlo Alcala (external link), on Flickr

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Sony Lounge Thread MKIII (All Sony cameras welcome)
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