Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Guest
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Community Talk, Chatter & Stuff General Photography Talk 
Thread started 10 Jun 2017 (Saturday) 10:04
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

A Novice Photographer Looks At Lessons Learned.

 
woodpecker
Member
Avatar
229 posts
Gallery: 236 photos
Likes: 584
Joined Jul 2012
Location: Newmarket, ON
     
Jun 10, 2017 10:04 |  #1

Hello All,

First, I consider myself a novice photographer…………a guy who enjoys capturing those little slices of time and moments of life for myself and others to enjoy.
As a novice I continue to learn lessons along the way, some I’ve learned by making my own mistakes and some I’ve learned by the mistakes of others.
If you’re like me, perhaps some of the lessons I’ve learned will help you to get to where you’d like to be, a little quicker and with less frustration.

Understanding ISO, Shutter Speed & Aperture:
For me, this is where it all began.
Understanding the relationship between these three and how each one effects the pictures I take opened my eyes to a whole new world and an understanding of photography in general.


Program Mode:
Without a doubt, the hardest lesson learned but most rewarding was leaving program mode and switching to AV mode.
In AV mode I applied what I learned about ISO, Shutter Speed and Aperture.

The Big Step into Manual Mode:
Once again, another difficult step for me but just like leaving program mode, this step has proved to be very rewarding.
I now have full control over how I take pictures and the benefits are incredible. Without an understanding of ISO, Shutter Speed & Aperture however, going to manual mode would have been a disaster.

Gear Envy:

Who doesn’t have gear envy? “If only I had this lens or that body, think of how much better my pictures would be”.
This isn’t always true, put a cheap camera in the hands of a seasoned photographer and he/she will almost always shoot better than an expensive camera in the hands of a novice…………understand why that happens and you’re halfway to becoming a better photographer.

Raw vs. JPEG:

This topic divides a lot of “would be photographers”. Without stepping into a discussion of the pros and cons of each, I’ll tell you that switching to Raw has been a real blessing simply because I have more information to work with in post. Shooting Raw, with its large file size will, at times compensate for my inability to get it right when taking pictures.

Post Processing:
The average picture taker doesn’t concern themselves much with post processing, they snap a picture and email off to friends or post it on a social network site and that’s the extent of it. If that’s what you like to do and you’re happy with it, fine. If you’d like to take your photography further and rather than just snapping a picture, create a photograph, then you should consider some form of post processing. I happen to use Lightroom 6 and the learning curve for me was high but it opened so many doors to “creating a photograph” that it’s worth the time to learn it or any other post processing software. I’m currently learning Photoshop……….now that’s a learning curve, for me anyway.

Composition:
For the most part, the above topics are what I would consider the “mechanics of photography”, the nuts and bolts if you will. Composition is what I would consider the “art of photography” and it starts with a simple lesson. Learning, understanding, applying and knowing when to break the “rule of thirds” was the first step for me in understanding composition…………this is a lesson I continue to work on today but one that has provided instant and positive results.

At the End of the Day:

When it’s all said and done, taking quality pictures is the end game and to get there it takes effort on the part of the person behind the view finder. As daunting as some of the tasks above may seem at times, it’s well worth the effort………..give it a try and see for yourself.

As for me, I thoroughly enjoy photography. I know that the lessons that I must learn to move forward as a photographer are many but I’ll meet and hopefully overcome those lessons with patience and commitment. I’ve learned along the way that a little hard work on my part yields countless benefits and I see it every time I place the viewfinder to my eye and hit the shutter button.

One Last Thing:
A huge “Thank You” to all the folks here at POTN. This forum and its top drawer people has been an incredible resource for me, without a doubt it has helped me in untold ways reach my goals quicker and with less frustration than any other resource I have……………thank you.

Now, get out there and take pictures.

Gord


I know I'm a novice but I work hard at what I like....... and I like photography.
Canon EOS 550D / EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS / EF 50mm f/1.8 II / EF-S 24mm f/2.8 STM
Canon EOS 80D / EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Bassat
"I am still in my underwear."
8,075 posts
Likes: 2742
Joined Oct 2015
     
Jun 11, 2017 05:50 |  #2
bannedPermanent ban

What an interesting post. Thanks for putting this up, Gord. I think it reflects the general path of every photographer who takes his work (hobby for me) seriously. We all go though the stages you list, in one way or another.

Your Composition section made me smile. While reading to that point, I am thinking more and more, "He hasn't mentioned photography yet. He is still learning to operate the camera." Which is how it should be. Once you (all of us) get to Composition, we are thinking about the product before pressing the button. That is, as you mentioned, the essence of being a photographer.

Some of use took the easy way out of learning the camera and started 40+ years ago. My first camera didn't have any modes beyond ON/OFF. ISO was pretty much fixed when the film was loaded. Tv was dialing in a shutter speed, then using aperture to dial exposure. Av was dialing in an aperture, then using shutter speed (and a tripod?) to dial in exposure. Very infrequently, I set my camera to M, and work that way. It is fun, and a reminder of how much today's cameras do for us.

I still remember picking up a Yashica FX-3 S2k in the late '80s. It had an Av mode! I can set aperture and the camera selects the right shutter speed?!?!?!? Will wonders never cease? I bought two of those bodies, and shot both until the shutters literally fell apart. The last one died around 2009, which marks my entry into digital. What an amazing photography world it is!




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
woodpecker
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
229 posts
Gallery: 236 photos
Likes: 584
Joined Jul 2012
Location: Newmarket, ON
     
Jun 11, 2017 06:49 as a reply to  @ Bassat's post |  #3

Hi Tom,

Glad you liked the post, thanks for your kind words.
I’m sure this type of post is old news for most but for the ones who, like me, have struggled or are struggling to take better pictures, I hope the above post inspires them to move ahead, the rewards are worth it.

There are a number of topics I left out to keep the post short but I’m hoping that others will jump in and add to the list of things that have moved their photography along, things like “focus and recompose” etc.

Not long ago I ran into a photography novice like me and we got to talking. He told me that he failed miserably at taking pictures when he took his camera off “Program” so he leaves it there. I told him he didn’t “fail” at photography in AV or Manual mode, he just found ways on how not to take a picture in those modes.

I’m a firm believer that “failure” is not the act of falling down, "failure" is the act of staying down.

Gord


I know I'm a novice but I work hard at what I like....... and I like photography.
Canon EOS 550D / EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS / EF 50mm f/1.8 II / EF-S 24mm f/2.8 STM
Canon EOS 80D / EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
37,949 posts
Gallery: 179 photos
Best ofs: 6
Likes: 13347
Joined May 2007
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
Post edited over 6 years ago by airfrogusmc. (2 edits in all)
     
Jun 11, 2017 09:09 |  #4

Here are some great words of wisdom by some of the greatest to push a shutter.

A little video by one of the greats.
https://vimeo.com/1166​92462 (external link) It's short and really worth a watch.

And some words by some of the greats.

"When subject matter is forced to fit into preconceived patterns, there can be no freshness of vision. Following rules of composition can only lead to a tedious repetition of pictorial cliches." - Edward Weston

"There are no rules and regulations for perfect composition. If there were we would be able to put all the information into a computer and would come out with a masterpiece. We know that's impossible. You have to compose by the seat of your pants." - Arnold Newman

"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs." - Ansel Adams

"And in not learning the rules, I was free. I always say, you're either defined by the medium or you redefine the medium in terms of your needs." - Duane Michals

"There are no shortcuts, no rules." - Paul Strand

"Photography is not a sport. It has no rules. Everything must be dared and tried!" - Bill Brandt

"I came from the outside, the rules of photography didn't interest me... "-William Klein

"...... a photograph can look any way. Or, there's no way a photograph has to look (beyond being an illusion of a literal description). Or, there are no external or abstract or preconceived rules of design that can apply to still photographs. "-Garry Winogrand

and maybe my favorite " ......so called “composition” becomes a personal thing, to be developed along with technique, as a personal way of seeing." - Edward Weston




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Wilt
Reader's Digest Condensed version of War and Peace [POTN Vol 1]
Avatar
46,420 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 4508
Joined Aug 2005
Location: Belmont, CA
Post edited over 6 years ago by Wilt. (2 edits in all)
     
Jun 11, 2017 09:37 |  #5

Nice summary of your own experiences. Now that you have the exposure trilogy mastered and can venture into Manual mode without fear, I would like to offer to others who are still learning, an insight to simplify their own learning.


  • In an Auto mode (P, Av, Tv, green box) the meter takes a light reading and puts settings automatically into the camera. In Manual mode, the meter takes a light reading and YOU put the settings into the camera...that is the only difference! 'automated settings'. If you think of Manual only in this fashion, it should NEVER incite fear and trepidation, even in your very first weeks of photography!
  • P and Green Box modes set all of the settings for you; Tv and Av simply allow you to set ONE parameter and the camera automation does the rest; Manual sets NONE of them for you!
  • It takes ZERO skill or knowledge or understanding to simply READ the shutter speed and aperture and ISO values shown in the viewfinder, and SET THEM on the camera with your own two hands...if a chimp could read, he could do it...I know you are better than a mere chimp, so Manual mode need not be so defeating to try to use...READ and SET what you read!

You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
Canon dSLR system, Olympus OM 35mm system, Bronica ETRSi 645 system, Horseman LS 4x5 system, Metz flashes, Dynalite studio lighting, and too many accessories to mention

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Bassat
"I am still in my underwear."
8,075 posts
Likes: 2742
Joined Oct 2015
     
Jun 11, 2017 10:06 |  #6
bannedPermanent ban

woodpecker wrote in post #18375785 (external link)
Hi Tom,

Glad you liked the post, thanks for your kind words.
I’m sure this type of post is old news for most but for the ones who, like me, have struggled or are struggling to take better pictures, I hope the above post inspires them to move ahead, the rewards are worth it.

There are a number of topics I left out to keep the post short but I’m hoping that others will jump in and add to the list of things that have moved their photography along, things like “focus and recompose” etc.

Not long ago I ran into a photography novice like me and we got to talking. He told me that he failed miserably at taking pictures when he took his camera off “Program” so he leaves it there. I told him he didn’t “fail” at photography in AV or Manual mode, he just found ways on how not to take a picture in those modes.

I’m a firm believer that “failure” is not the act of falling down, "failure" is the act of staying down.

Gord

Tom Edison once remarked that he had tried 900 different light bulbs. None of them worked. When asked if he had failed, he replied in the negative. "Failed? Certainly not. I've discovered 900 ways that do not work. (paraphrased)" (Just in case this is news to anyone, he did succeed a bit later.)

Our local car wash has your closing statement quoted as:

Falling down is an accident. Staying down is a choice.

Attitude is everything.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Bassat
"I am still in my underwear."
8,075 posts
Likes: 2742
Joined Oct 2015
     
Jun 11, 2017 10:14 |  #7
bannedPermanent ban

A corollary to Wilt's post above.

None of the camera modes available today is better than any other. Ditto the metering modes available. Each setting, and combination of settings, has advantages and disadvantages. It is up to the photographer to deploy them how she sees fit to obtain the desired results. If f/2, 1/800, and ISO 320 yield the proper exposure, how she gets there is irrelevant.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
woodpecker
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
229 posts
Gallery: 236 photos
Likes: 584
Joined Jul 2012
Location: Newmarket, ON
     
Jun 12, 2017 17:33 |  #8

Wilt wrote in post #18375862 (external link)
Nice summary of your own experiences. Now that you have the exposure trilogy mastered and can venture into Manual mode without fear, I would like to offer to others who are still learning, an insight to simplify their own learning.


  • In an Auto mode (P, Av, Tv, green box) the meter takes a light reading and puts settings automatically into the camera. In Manual mode, the meter takes a light reading and YOU put the settings into the camera...that is the only difference! 'automated settings'. If you think of Manual only in this fashion, it should NEVER incite fear and trepidation, even in your very first weeks of photography!
  • P and Green Box modes set all of the settings for you; Tv and Av simply allow you to set ONE parameter and the camera automation does the rest; Manual sets NONE of them for you!
  • It takes ZERO skill or knowledge or understanding to simply READ the shutter speed and aperture and ISO values shown in the viewfinder, and SET THEM on the camera with your own two hands...if a chimp could read, he could do it...I know you are better than a mere chimp, so Manual mode need not be so defeating to try to use...READ and SET what you read!

Hi Wilt,

I understand and agree with what you're saying but for some it's a huge challenge to get off that dreaded Program Mode.
Once you're off Program Mode, you quickly discover what you've been missing.

It's like taking the training wheels off a bicycle, once the training wheels are off, the world is yours to discover.......but convincing someone to take them off is often easier said than done.

Gord


I know I'm a novice but I work hard at what I like....... and I like photography.
Canon EOS 550D / EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS / EF 50mm f/1.8 II / EF-S 24mm f/2.8 STM
Canon EOS 80D / EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
woodpecker
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
229 posts
Gallery: 236 photos
Likes: 584
Joined Jul 2012
Location: Newmarket, ON
     
Jun 12, 2017 17:35 |  #9

Bassat wrote in post #18375879 (external link)
Tom Edison once remarked that he had tried 900 different light bulbs. None of them worked. When asked if he had failed, he replied in the negative. "Failed? Certainly not. I've discovered 900 ways that do not work. (paraphrased)" (Just in case this is news to anyone, he did succeed a bit later.)

Our local car wash has your closing statement quoted as:

Falling down is an accident. Staying down is a choice.

Attitude is everything.


Hi Tom,

You nailed it..............great sayings, thanks for those.

Gord


I know I'm a novice but I work hard at what I like....... and I like photography.
Canon EOS 550D / EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS / EF 50mm f/1.8 II / EF-S 24mm f/2.8 STM
Canon EOS 80D / EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Bassat
"I am still in my underwear."
8,075 posts
Likes: 2742
Joined Oct 2015
     
Jun 12, 2017 17:52 |  #10
bannedPermanent ban

woodpecker wrote in post #18376967 (external link)
Hi Wilt,

I understand and agree with what you're saying but for some it's a huge challenge to get off that dreaded Program Mode.
Once you're off Program Mode, you quickly discover what you've been missing.

It's like taking the training wheels off a bicycle, once the training wheels are off, the world is yours to discover.......but convincing someone to take them off is often easier said than done.

Gord

This puts the lie to learning photography with a digital camera. It also begs for a camera that I would pay good money for.

First off, HAVING a Program mode in the first place is what prevented you from starting with Manual, and learning the exposure triangle for yourself, first hand, from the beginning. Not that it is necessarily a bad thing, but 40 years ago, we had no choice. The bad part of learning that way was the cost of, and developing of, roll after roll of film.

The camera I wish Canon would come out with is full manual, full frame, bare bones, set-it-yourself EF mount body for about $500. No auto-focus at all. No EC. No extras at all. The only features it need are: shutter button, aperture dial (for the EF lenses), an ISO button (change w/front dial), and a shutter speed dial. No auto ANYTHING. I'd buy one of those the second it was released. I could do most of what I do with that body.

Forty years ago, I shot junior league German football with an all manual camera. I wish I could remember if I got any decent shots! :)




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
woodpecker
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
229 posts
Gallery: 236 photos
Likes: 584
Joined Jul 2012
Location: Newmarket, ON
     
Jun 12, 2017 17:59 as a reply to  @ Bassat's post |  #11

Hi Tom,

Looking at what it took to be a good photographer when you started out assures me that I've got nothing to complain about, I've got it easy.
My photography learning curve is easy compared to what you had to go through...............​you won't hear me whine again, that's for sure.:-):-):-)

Gord


I know I'm a novice but I work hard at what I like....... and I like photography.
Canon EOS 550D / EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS / EF 50mm f/1.8 II / EF-S 24mm f/2.8 STM
Canon EOS 80D / EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
37,949 posts
Gallery: 179 photos
Best ofs: 6
Likes: 13347
Joined May 2007
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
     
Jun 12, 2017 18:07 |  #12

Bassat wrote in post #18376979 (external link)
This puts the lie to learning photography with a digital camera. It also begs for a camera that I would pay good money for.

First off, HAVING a Program mode in the first place is what prevented you from starting with Manual, and learning the exposure triangle for yourself, first hand, from the beginning. Not that it is necessarily a bad thing, but 40 years ago, we had no choice. The bad part of learning that way was the cost of, and developing of, roll after roll of film.

The camera I wish Canon would come out with is full manual, full frame, bare bones, set-it-yourself EF mount body for about $500. No auto-focus at all. No EC. No extras at all. The only features it need are: shutter button, aperture dial (for the EF lenses), an ISO button (change w/front dial), and a shutter speed dial. No auto ANYTHING. I'd buy one of those the second it was released. I could do most of what I do with that body.

Forty years ago, I shot junior league German football with an all manual camera. I wish I could remember if I got any decent shots! :)


What you have described is exactly why I shoot with Leica M digital. I shot with Canon F-1s and Hasselblad 500 C/Ms for decades. No reason to upgrade. I now shoot with Leicas Ms. I have an M Monochrom (original) M-E and an M 262.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Bassat
"I am still in my underwear."
8,075 posts
Likes: 2742
Joined Oct 2015
     
Jun 12, 2017 18:34 |  #13
bannedPermanent ban

woodpecker wrote in post #18376984 (external link)
Hi Tom,

Looking at what it took to be a good photographer when you started out assures me that I've got nothing to complain about, I've got it easy.
My photography learning curve is easy compared to what you had to go through...............​you won't hear me whine again, that's for sure.:-):-):-)

Gord

My deepest apologies, Gord. I didn't mean to insinuate that you were whining. My only point was that I didn't have a Program mode, so I had to learn what I was doing, mostly by myself (no internet back then!) I don't remember the number of times I'd shoot through a chain link fence, just to learn DOF control.

I don't think you've got it any easier, really. My camera only had one mode: DO IT YOURSELF! You have several different modes, and metering modes, and drive speeds and everything else. Lots to learn compared to what I had to do. Which leads me to my 'no frills' camera.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Bassat
"I am still in my underwear."
8,075 posts
Likes: 2742
Joined Oct 2015
     
Jun 12, 2017 18:36 |  #14
bannedPermanent ban

airfrogusmc wrote in post #18376996 (external link)
What you have described is exactly why I shoot with Leica M digital. I shot with Canon F-1s and Hasselblad 500 C/Ms for decades. No reason to upgrade. I now shoot with Leicas Ms. I have an M Monochrom (original) M-E and an M 262.

I just looked up the Leica M7. $6000 is most certainly NOT what I had in mind for a simple, all-manual camera. Though if you're giving one away... :)




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
37,949 posts
Gallery: 179 photos
Best ofs: 6
Likes: 13347
Joined May 2007
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
     
Jun 12, 2017 18:53 |  #15

Bassat wrote in post #18377013 (external link)
I just looked up the Leica M7. $6000 is most certainly NOT what I had in mind for a simple, all-manual camera. Though if you're giving one away... :)


No more than a top o the line nicanon. And the new M 10 digital is 6500. You can score a used MM or M9 for less than 4K.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

5,398 views & 15 likes for this thread, 6 members have posted to it.
A Novice Photographer Looks At Lessons Learned.
FORUMS Community Talk, Chatter & Stuff General Photography Talk 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Forums   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset   •  Home

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.58forum software
version 2.58 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is Niagara Wedding Photographer
1307 guests, 115 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15,144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.