Sigma Warranty FEE on grey market now

Just a matter of time. I had a major rant on Tamron and how they did this but over a firmware upgrade but either way Sigma is now matching the same exact business model on their grey market lenses.

So there you have it... Tamron and Sigma have made amazing strides toward awesome products and now they are trying to deal with the grey market. I will say I've seen way more grey market items for Tamron than Sigma.

One thing is different though... Tamron absolutely refuses to work on any grey/import lens while Sigma will just charge you $250 plus additional for the labor and parts.

https://www.sigmaphoto​.com …ts//?link=april​-t-graymkt

That's horrible, as if repair costs aren't bad enough.

Charlie wrote in post #18377859
That's horrible, as if repair costs aren't bad enough.

Only if you bought import/grey non USA authorized lenses. I'm happy to report all my lenses are USA and most still have many years left.

This reminds me... I need to send my 120-300 in to get the OS unit replaced so I can sell it.

really? didn't they manufacture theses lenses and sell them to somebody? maybe they sell them intentionally out the back door so they can back door you

So how will this affect personal imports? I live in the UK, but have bought lenses from B&H when on holiday in NYC. And paid import duty. Would I have to ship the lens back to the US to get warranty service, rather than using the UK repair facility?
I haven't been able to find an answer on either the Tamron or Sigma websites.

https://www.sigma-imaging-uk.com …aflet%20-%20Low%20Res.pdf

The final paragraph seems to indicate if you have receipts for import duty and VAT you have 12 months international warranty.

My understanding of that document is that you just miss out on the Sigma UK 3 year warranty.

I know why Tamron are so hot on grey imports, they don't have subsidiaries in other countries, they use independent importers, well they do in the UK, where Tamron is represented by Intro2020, who also import Tokina, Cokin, Slik, Metz and many other brands to the UK and Ireland. They bear all the costs of supporting the brands, both pre and post sale. Even where the wholesaler of a product in a geographical region or country is a subsidiary of the manufacturer they are usually incorporated in the country that they operate in. Again they are responsible for dealing with all of the pre and post sales support costs.

If you are running a business selling products that you spent a good deal of money on advertising in the many different types of media we now have. Alongside of which you have a workshop to provide post sales support and service, how would you feel if you found that a noticeable proportion of the products that you are receiving were not actually sold by you? Would you want to have to pay for this out of YOUR pocket? If the manufacturer subsidiary companies have any local shareholders, then the same applies to those local shareholders, why should their company support products that they did not sell?

I find it the same as going into any specialist retailer, asking for lots of presale advice, which the retailer will give in the hope of making a sale, then going and buying the product for the cheapest possible price online. As if that is not bad enough when they have done that, and have some issue with the product, they go back to that same small independant retailer for post sales advice. I have been involved in specialist retail for about 15 years now, and I have seen this happen almost weekly. Because of the nature of the products, which pretty much cannot be shipped by private individuals here in the UK, people will expect the retailer they did not buy the product from to organise a return to the manufacturer for them, simply because you sell the same product. What is even worse is the manufacturers who tell owners of the product to do this. It generally takes about an hour of time to process a product return for repair, which in most cases would wipe out any profit made from selling the product in the first place. So doing it for a product you didn't sell is a double whammy, it's costing you money, and your competitor is still keeping his full profits from the sale.

Alan

I have to agree with Alan (which I frequently find myself doing). The national/regional subsidiaries are set up as separate corporations and have their own profit targets. Warranty service costs money, and they rely on sales to cover it. If you didn't buy it from them, they may still service it, but expect to pay for it.

Many "big box" retailers have gone out of business or are struggling because of "showrooming", where people go to the store, look at the products and decide which one they like, then go home and order it from Amazon.

Many of us, myself included, frequently toss around links to Amazon and B&H and other sites here. That's helpful to illustrate what product you are talking about, but I like to encourage people to patronize their local brick and mortar camera stores. They're also struggling against online retailers, and I believe they are a valuable resource to the community. Once they're all gone, there will be no place for pros and enthusiasts to go to talk with knowledgeable sales people and try out high end equipment. The only alternative will be to get other peoples' opinions through online reviews, and then buy sight unseen from a web site. Or buy the lower end stuff at Target and Best Buy (where the sales people generally don't know anything other than how to ring it up).

Retail prices for the big ticket items like bodies and lenses are usually set by the national distributor, so other than grey market products, online retailers really can't discount versus brick & mortar store prices. It's the accessories like memory cards, filters, batteries, etc., where most of the price variation occurs. That's generally small stuff, and I'm willing to pay a reasonable premium to my local camera store (Ace Photo in Ashburn, VA) because it's worth it to me for the service they provide.

Mike

Thanks for that, I hadn't been able to find it. As my lens is now 2 years old, seems like I'll have to pay for service.
Still, small price to pay, and hopefully I won't need it anyway.

I feel your pain. I have to admit I used to be a "try in the shop then buy on the web" person, because it was such a pain in the ear to try to return products and get your money back if you didn't like it. However, since the law was changed to grant customers a statutory right to return goods (within a short period and in "showroom" condition) and claim a refund, I don't do this any more. As you say, not fair to the retailer with bricks and mortar premises. I still buy from bricks and mortar stores, but not as regularly as I used to. I think my GAS has gone into remission.

ed rader wrote in post #18378036
really? didn't they manufacture theses lenses and sell them to somebody? maybe they sell them intentionally out the back door so they can back door you

The problem shared by all product sources (Nikon, Canon, Tamron, Sigma) is that

1. a LOCAL DISTRIBUTOR normally makes some 'middleman' markup that pays them something to underwrite administrative, clerical, and service staffing costs, plus carrying costs of spares inventory
   
2. a grey market source means that the usual local distributor makes nothing that pays them something to underwrite administrative, clerical, and service staffing, plus carrying costs of spares inventory
   
3. many local distributors are operated as a subsidiary independent-of-the-parent-company in Japan, and the management of each has a Profit & Loss accountability (as a separate corporate entity)
   
4. other local distributors have zero ties to the Japanese manufacturer, and like #3 the management of each has a Profit & Loss accountability to its owners/stockholders
   

Talley wrote in post #18377848
Just a matter of time. I had a major rant on Tamron and how they did this but over a firmware upgrade but either way Sigma is now matching the same exact business model on their grey market lenses.

So there you have it... Tamron and Sigma have made amazing strides toward awesome products and now they are trying to deal with the grey market. I will say I've seen way more grey market items for Tamron than Sigma.

One thing is different though... Tamron absolutely refuses to work on any grey/import lens while Sigma will just charge you $250 plus additional for the labor and parts.

https://www.sigmaphoto​.com …ts//?link=april​-t-graymkt

Let me get this straight....if I therefore buy a 2nd hand, pre-owned or whatever you might call it, lens that was originally a grey import, there's a chance that the manufacturer would refuse to repair or adjust or clean it as and when necessary? Or have I misunderstood here?

oingyboingybob wrote in post #18379117
Let me get this straight....if I therefore buy a 2nd hand, pre-owned or whatever you might call it, lens that was originally a grey import, there's a chance that the manufacturer would refuse to repair or adjust or clean it as and when necessary? Or have I misunderstood here?

No misunderstanding at all, that is perfectly correct, if it was imported through unofficial channels then you are SOL and not getting any service at all, or you may be paying through the nose for service, it does of course vary by manufacturer. So when it comes to secondhand sales remember to be sure what you are buying is actually covered by the local support agency before spending your hard earned cash.

If I were doing it I would probably simply charge 10% to 20% of the products official retail price (with a pretty stiff minimum fee value) as a service registration fee for grey import goods, after which you then qualify to be able to use the distributors service facilities like any other out of warranty customer. Yes it's harsh being asked to front up that sort of money, but it does at least give people the chance to have stuff fixed.

Alan

BigAl007 wrote in post #18379153
No misunderstanding at all, that is perfectly correct, if it was imported through unofficial channels then you are SOL and not getting any service at all, or you may be paying through the nose for service, it does of course vary by manufacturer. So when it comes to secondhand sales remember to be sure what you are buying is actually covered by the local support agency before spending your hard earned cash.

If I were doing it I would probably simply charge 10% to 20% of the products official retail price (with a pretty stiff minimum fee value) as a service registration fee for grey import goods, after which you then qualify to be able to use the distributors service facilities like any other out of warranty customer. Yes it's harsh being asked to front up that sort of money, but it does at least give people the chance to have stuff fixed.

Alan

Not disagreeing, but that seems like a very short-sighted policy. Somebody buys a used lens, and it develops a problem. The lens was originally purchased grey market, so the distributor in that country refuses to service it. So the customer is SOL through no fault of their own, and now they're PO'd at the lens manufacturer and they resolve never to buy anything from that manufacturer again. Where's the business sense in that?

Given what passes for customer service these days, I should hardly be surprised. Fortunately, there are high quality third-party lens repair shops. You just have to dig a little deeper to find them.

Mike

But what is the business sense of having an office and staff, advertising the brand in magazines, etc., then NOT getting any money from the sale of the grey market goods, and then having to provide service for a non-warranty product that costs the same as it does for a purchaser whose purchase of official market goods helped to keep the local distributor's doors open with staffing and advertising and spare parts inventories? What business sense is that...make no money in the iniitial sale, yet absorb all the advertising and distribution and service costs?!