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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 19 Jun 2017 (Monday) 10:17
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Finally going to start learning proper flash photography

 
Nathan
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Post edited over 6 years ago by Nathan.
     
Jun 19, 2017 10:17 |  #1

I'm going to finally get to know my flash better and practice some portrait style lighting. Most of this will be done onsite and outdoors.

I'm watching and taking notes from Zack Arias' One Light 2.0. Good stuff. I want to take his advice and start off with off camera flash using speedlights and seeing what my needs will be before spending more money. Currently, I have 2 580 EXIIs and some Yongnuo wireless triggers - enough for both flashes and both bodies.

I'm planning on just copying his recommendations, and buying an Impact 5 ft convertible umbrella and a 13 foot stand. That'll take care of one of the flashes.

What should I do with my second flash? I haven't gotten through all the vids yet... just the first hour of Arias's review of basics and equipment. I have some cheapo 7ft light stands and 33 inch shoot through umbrellas already.

Thanks


Taking photos with a fancy camera does not make me a photographer.
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MalVeauX
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Jun 19, 2017 10:54 |  #2

Heya,

Start with your speedlites and what you have. Maybe add a large umbrella and/or beauty dish (18~22 inche). Stop there though. Also, instead of just any old big stand, get a boom stand (I suggest a Cheetah Boom Stand). You often will want light above subject, but not in the field of view. I also suggest you get a dual cold shoe so you can gang up your two speedlites, to get more output (two speedlites together equates to +1 stop of output power). That also allows you greater spread over a larger modifier, which is important with a big modifier (5 foot is pretty big for a speedlite). Your other flash, if they're not ganged up, can serve as a fill flash or hair light depending on the need. Outdoor, you rarely will need that, because the sun is already giving you fill and hair in most situations, so your two speedlites ganged up can be the key or fill against the sun/light. In studio situation, you can use one speedlite for key and the other for fill or for hair/rim. A big modifier at close range will give the softest light at the cost of efficiency. Sometimes you will want more distance and a harder light, that's where a nice beauty dish or reflector can come in handy.

Suggestions:

Cheetah Boom
https://www.cheetahsta​nd.com/Cheetah-Boom-p/cboom.htm (external link)

Double Cold-Shoe Flash Bracket (umbrella modifier holder):
https://www.amazon.com …_detailpage?ie=​UTF8&psc=1 (external link)

Godox S-Bracket (Bowens and Umbrella):
https://www.amazon.com …rds=godox+s-bracket&psc=1 (external link)

Pick one modifier to start with:

Cheap 47" Umbrella style softbox:
https://www.amazon.com …keywords=47%22+​brolly+box (external link)

Cheap 43" BlackBack White Westscott Umbrella:
https://www.amazon.com …=8-3&keywords=westcott+43 (external link)

You can add any cheap tall stand for rim/hair light(s).

You can add a basic light meter (sekonic) to help craft light how you want exactly. Especially helpful for blending with ambient light outdoor. I suggest this because chimping and adjusting lights and chimping with subjects watching that process takes time, and you still don't know if its right, LCDs don't give accurate results, and a histogram won't tell you that you exposed something right in the overall blend (ie, is it fill or key level).

Practice, practice, practice.

Indoor studio is vastly different from outdoor sunny stuff. Two approaches. Blurry backgrounds are not always the go-to.

Very best,


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Nathan
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Post edited over 6 years ago by Nathan.
     
Jun 19, 2017 11:50 as a reply to  @ MalVeauX's post |  #3

Thanks, Malveaux. Why would I not just go with a 5 ft Impact umbrella for $30:
https://www.bhphotovid​eo.com …Convertible_Umb​rella.html (external link)

I also saw that you recommended a different Flashpoint stand to another member that's a bit cheaper:
https://www.adorama.co​m …K3M6pb0x9QCFRG2​wAodGBUEIA (external link)

I'm thinking about the 60" Impact Umbrella, the Flashpoint stand with boom you recommended to the other member and the double cold shoe bracket


Taking photos with a fancy camera does not make me a photographer.
www.nathantpham.com (external link) | Boston POTN Flickr (external link) |
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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Post edited over 6 years ago by Left Handed Brisket.
     
Jun 19, 2017 12:05 |  #4

Huge umbrella light sources are overrated, especially with two soeedlights. Sure there are cases when you will want something over say 42 inches, but I bet you find it is not that often.

You have what you need now to learn a whole lot. Just get out and test the limits of what you have. Well, maybe buy a 10 foot stand. If I have ever needed more than that it has been a bare speedlight, or small soft box on a 10' stand with a grip arm.

I suspect that you will see that the first thing you want is a stronger light source, then a proper gridded softbox with a lip, rear lit, with an inner baffle. Or maybe a gridded para.


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
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Nathan
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Jun 19, 2017 12:06 |  #5

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18381954 (external link)
I suspect that you will see that the first thing you want is a stronger light source, then a proper gridded softbox with a lip, rear lit, with an inner baffle. Or maybe a gridded para.

That's so much stuff... haha. I don't know yet. I need to practice first and then figure out what it is I need.

However, forgot to mention - What about group photos? Say a dozen people.


Taking photos with a fancy camera does not make me a photographer.
www.nathantpham.com (external link) | Boston POTN Flickr (external link) |
5D3 x2 | 16-35L II | 50L | 85L II | 100L | 135L | 580 EX II x2

  
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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Jun 19, 2017 12:33 |  #6

I'm suggesting two things you might later find you want:

1) Better/stronger light

2) Better softbox to take advantage of that light. Indoors you will find that grids and a lip on a proper softbox make a big difference.

But yes, get out and use what you have first. Make mental notes of what doesn't work, or is a pain in the neck and figure what you need to do to correct it.


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
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Nathan
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Post edited over 6 years ago by Nathan.
     
Jun 19, 2017 12:40 |  #7

Thanks. I just placed an order for the double cold shoe mount. I'm going to see how high up I can get my existing light stands and see how limiting that it.

Question: If I already have 2 32" shoot through umbrellas... can I put them side by side with a flash each as a large light source?

Also, my sister-in-law fulfilled her long time wish to get into photography a few months ago with the purchase of some gear, including a Profoto B2. I haven't seen her use it yet, but I'm pretty sure I can borrow it almost any time.


Taking photos with a fancy camera does not make me a photographer.
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Wilt
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Jun 19, 2017 12:45 |  #8

Nathan wrote in post #18381955 (external link)
That's so much stuff... haha. I don't know yet. I need to practice first and then figure out what it is I need.

However, forgot to mention - What about group photos? Say a dozen people.

Wisdom from a novice at lighting! how novel.

Start simple...one, maybe two light sources, with simple reflector/zoom head, under radio control, with one on camera and the other off-camera.

Once you have THAT basic configuration mastered (for how to control/ratio light sources), only then add light modifier(s)!


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JoeLopez
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Jun 19, 2017 12:46 |  #9

One Light 2.0 is a great start for sure.

Also read up at www.strobist.com (external link) - David Hobby and crew have some great tips there for getting started as well.


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Jun 19, 2017 13:19 |  #10

Nathan wrote in post #18381983 (external link)
Question: If I already have 2 32" shoot through umbrellas... can I put them side by side with a flash each as a large light source?

It will work. Might not be perfect depending on what you are attempting to do, but it will work. Please don't get hung up on large light sources.

For your group of twelve that might be a good set up.

Also, my sister-in-law fulfilled her long time wish to get into photography a few months ago with the purchase of some gear, including a Profoto B2..

Wow, I dont even know what to say.


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
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Nathan
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Post edited over 6 years ago by Nathan.
     
Jun 19, 2017 14:05 |  #11

Group of 12, the two umbrellas would be a good set up or just one?

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18382021 (external link)
Wow, I dont even know what to say.

I had lots to say, but I'm slowly getting over it.


Taking photos with a fancy camera does not make me a photographer.
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MalVeauX
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Jun 19, 2017 14:55 |  #12

Heya,

If you want to test it, get a 43~48" and a 60" and see the kind of spread you get at the widest zoom of the speedlite (24mm) and see if it even matters that you got a 60" or larger. It likely won't because the speedlite doesn't have wide enough spread unless you pull it way, way back from the umbrella (and this will take a lot of space, on top of the space of a 60"). This is why a strobe is used commonly with these huge modifiers, because of the spread angle of light coming out of its nose without a reflector, at a position that fills the modifier. I used a 60" the other day with two speedlites ganged up, so that the spread was greater, and the +1 stop of output, and it works (I did it outside even). But I don't recommend it as an every day approach. I did it because I was in a moment where I had to make it work with three adults, full body, outside, and I didn't want to setup several lights, so I went with my bigger modifier and just used more than one light with it (as a reflecting source, black backed). Basically used it as a big 60" bounce surface with two speedlites.

Again, realistically, speedlites don't really fill up big modifiers. I would keep it simple for 1~2 subjects, a 43~48" is going to do that just fine. You'll find bigger is a lot harder to place nicely in a room where you want all the time. It takes up a lot of space to do it unless the room is massive with really tall ceilings.

Groups:

Don't even attempt to do 12 subjects with some umbrellas and two lights. You'll get shadows and uneven exposure every where. Instead, you have to change how you think. This is where you either need a lot of lights, or a huge light source relative to the subjects. In this case, I would just use the speedlites bounced off a ceiling to manage a big lighting session with a large group of people. If this is outdoors, then you don't have that option, and you have to get creative with posing them, rows, etc, so that no face casts a shadow on another face, etc. It can be done with two lights, direct light, from high above casting down onto the group from a tall stand. But it will hard light. So it's better to have it act as fill, not key, if possible or it will look flashed.' This is common though, when doing teams (like sports) outdoor. Again, the key to this is to make sure sun is not in their faces (outdoor) and that your light(s) are not casting shadows onto other people in the group. This is a whole different way to approach lighting, so start small and simple. Don't try to get a big enough light and big enough umbrellas for a group, you approach groups even more simple, and find a way to use the environment and control shadow fill and shadow cast.

++++++++++

Practice is the way to go. Even just doing self-portraits to play with lighting to see how it all comes together.

You will of course eventually want bigger, stronger lights, and bigger, more controlling modifiers. Been there too. Done it. And what I ended up doing is going backwards, back to using simple speedlites, a single powerful strobe, smaller modifiers, and just managing shadows and doing more fill. I prefer it to using my 60" and trying to muscle through things in small space with huge modifiers. More to setup, more to carry, etc. These days, I keep it simple. I have a fleet of 6 speedlites and a couple of strobes, and a single portable 600Ws strobe for outdoor sun work and I've been using a 10" modifier these days! Everyone has a preference. But you have to do it to form your own opinion of what you like and want. My point is though, don't go buying into huge stuff yet. You may find it simple to just have some fill light on your subjects and won't need crazy stuff. I often use speedlites bare at the subject as fill, and you cannot even tell, it's soft enough and fills enough (key light being very different, harsh, when directly flashed).

Practice practice. Keep it simple. You will do more with a handful of speedlites and no modifiers than a bunch of huge powerful lights and huge modifiers; all of which you have to carry, setup, maintain, replace when they break, and manage wind sails without assistants, etc. You'll see!

Very best,


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Nathan
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Post edited over 6 years ago by Nathan.
     
Jun 19, 2017 15:00 |  #13

Okay, thanks for the advice. Now I wish I knew where I put my 430EX. I don't remember selling it or lending it out. I've been looking for it for months.

Also... just remembered that I have some 10 ft Ravelli stands that prop up a backdrop. Can I buy a boom arm and just add to that?


Taking photos with a fancy camera does not make me a photographer.
www.nathantpham.com (external link) | Boston POTN Flickr (external link) |
5D3 x2 | 16-35L II | 50L | 85L II | 100L | 135L | 580 EX II x2

  
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