Dithering, and I could use input

Hello everyone. I've kind of burned out my brain and retinas researching this and I'm torn.

Soon I will be upgrading my camera body - my 6d is awesome and I love it, but 4 years later it has a lot of miles on the shutter. I have some $$, so it's time. (I will likely be keeping it as a backup body, although a local camera shop would possibly take it in on trade too.)

I am a professional photographer, although I do not shoot full time at the moment. 99% of my work is fashion, beauty (including some macro beauty), and portraits; both in studio and outdoors. Every once in a great while I'll go shoot a horse show for fun, or shoot some products here and there. No families, no kids, no babies, no weddings/engagements, no landscapes (or rarely), no cars, etc. Every once in a while I will shoot some BTS videos, but that's rare, and I could do some more of that in the future but I am not going to be doing much more than a couple minute clips here and there.

My heart wants a 5D4 because new, shiny, awesome... My wallet says "yeah ok, but the 5D3 would be perfectly sufficient and about $1000 less". My brain says "you're both right".

So my question is: A year-ish on, do you think that the $1k extra for the 5D4 is totally worth it? I'd love to hear everyone's input.

Thanks in advance!

My first question would be "Why the need to upgrade?" or "What is it that you wish the 6D could do better for your work?"

While I wait for your answer, I'll throw a monkey wrench in: How about some new lenses? Noticed you had some decent (but older still) lenses in your profile. I'd bet that a 24-70II and 70-200L IS for the same price (or less used) would make more of a difference on a solid body, than a new body with older glass.

everyone that has bought a 5D4 has said they were glad and it was an upgrade in every way.

That said, I dont' see why a 6DII should't be in the running for you, unless you need a new one right away.

So I'd say 6DII, over a 5D3 even, and then 5D4 if you have the extra money - just go for it.

I'm considering selling my 5D3 and getting the 6DII - but will wait till I can get my hands on one at my (lucky me) local camera shop.

6D vI is going to be a great bargain, but I have to have better af outer points, so won't suit my needs.

JMHO, YMMV

tdlavigne wrote in post #18387543
My first question would be "Why the need to upgrade?" or "What is it that you wish the 6D could do better for your work?"

While I wait for your answer, I'll throw a monkey wrench in: How about some new lenses? Noticed you had some decent (but older still) lenses in your profile. I'd bet that a 24-70II and 70-200L IS for the same price (or less used) would make more of a difference on a solid body, than a new body with older glass.

I was waiting for the first "buy some lenses instead" response

My 6D has about 130k on the shutter, and while it doesn't appear to be at death's door, it's going to happen eventually. I would prefer that it doesn't happen in the middle of a job, so in that respect, I am overdue for a camera body upgrade. So that's one thing. The other is that higher resolution files would be helpful for when a client needs to print something big (like 6' x 4' banners, etc.). The third is that I would really, really, REALLY like more than one useful autofocus point. That's the major bummer about this body. I shoot vertical most of the time, and being able to focus on someone's face without having to pull way back and then crop in would be extremely helpful. (And that relates to the needing larger files thing too.)

And yep my lenses are older and decent, and the 24-70 would DEFINITELY be nice. (Eventually.) I'm not really in the market for the 70-200 only because my copy of the drainpipe is really, really good - so for now at least, it's covering that need.

Right now I'm more or less doing triage on where my greatest needs lie. I don't do any of this on credit, I save and spend the money, so I can't just go out and buy a bunch of stuff all at once.

ksbal wrote in post #18387545
everyone that has bought a 5D4 has said they were glad and it was an upgrade in every way.

That said, I dont' see why a 6DII should't be in the running for you, unless you need a new one right away.

So I'd say 6DII, over a 5D3 even, and then 5D4 if you have the extra money - just go for it.

I'm considering selling my 5D3 and getting the 6DII - but will wait till I can get my hands on one at my (lucky me) local camera shop.

6D vI is going to be a great bargain, but I have to have better af outer points, so won't suit my needs.

JMHO, YMMV

I'll consider a 6D2 when I see more (or at least SOME) real-world tests and reviews of it - right now, having more useful/accurate AF points than just the center is FAR more crucial than a swiveling LCD screen.

Not really my field of photography! I certainly think the 5D4 would be a nice, though pricey, upgrade. No sure about the 5D3 - yes it is a better camera but many (including me) feel the 6D has a better sensor, so if you don't need the extra functionality, fps, AF etc would the 5D3 be an upgrade? The recent announcements about the 6D2 look very promising to me - but we will have to see how they pan out.

Just my 2p! But for now I would take a long hard look at the Canon 16-35 F4 L IS and the Canon 24-70 F2.8 L V2. I switched to these two from the 17-40 F4 L and 24-105 F4 L IS - both were nice copies and performed very well but changing them was the most significant IQ upgrade that I have yet made in a single step. Yes I am a fanboy of these two lenses!

Just some food for thought?

Thanks for the input so far everyone! I haven't touched my 17-40L in, uh, probably over a year, so replacing it is relatively low on my priority list. At this point, if I was going to put $$ into any new lens, it would be the 24-70 II. I have rented it a couple times and it's great. However, my goofy little Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 is ridiculously sharp, fast and accurate, especially for the money. I've done enough pixel peeping between files I have from both lenses and they're really damn close (in my case anyway) - so the need just hasn't really been there. Also, I am sort of hard on my equipment, so I don't feel all that bad for beating it up a little.

The sensor on the 6D is amazing. It's an awesome little camera and I love it - clearly, or I wouldn't have put so many miles on it, haha. I've also considered the 5DS (not the SR) but from what I can gather, it seems like dollar for dollar, the 5D4 is better.

lol, it's a safe answer (lenses) :P

But since it sounds like your reasons for upgrading are definitely justified and if your 80-200 is solid then I too would suggest that if you can wait, see what the 6DII does. The latest rumored specs look VERY enticing, even for me coming from a 36mp 51pt AF Nikon body. If I were starting over again I'd definitely give it a go if it ends up being what the rumors suggest. The 26mp isn't much of an upgrade, but to be honest 30mp (5DIV) isn't much of an increase from the 20 of your 6D. I expected night and day difference going from 16->24->36 and to be honest it's barely noticeable. The rumored 45pt all cross-type would likely solve all your AF concerns. Plus you get the benefit of a likely similar body if you keep the 6D for backup; when I shot a 5DIII and 70D I hated having to readjust to the different layout if I swapped bodies during a shoot.

If you need something now, I would probably lean towards the IV instead of the III just because it seemed to be a bigger step in the right direction as far as increasing IQ (namely more DR); plus being newer it's not going to be due for replacement any time soon, and it won't be obsolete any time soon.

I don't think the 6D's sensor is that much different then the 5D3. The main advantage of the 5D3 is a great AF system (both number of AF points, customization, and AF tracking). The 5D4 is now the new kid on the block that offers higher MPs and better dynamic range. But your intended shooting in beauty, fashion, and occasional outdoor events may not require the extra DR. It is welcome and offers more versatility, but the reduced price of the 5D3 then makes it great value. It's really up to you: as it's a profession, maybe it warrants the extra price of the 5D4....but the 5D3 isn't completely obsolete now either.

4 years of use with the 6d, then go for the 5d4. If you get a 5d3 and use it for 4 years i think you will end up in the same situation you are in now as its just not worth anything to sell. If you can sell the 5d3 for 500usd at the end of another four years i think you will be able to sell the 5d4 for 1500.
However, if you can wait then at least see when and what the 6d2 will offer

Looks like 6dii is made for you. It should be announced within days with tests and reviews coming up shortly after that. My understanding that it won't be available until August. I would skip 5diii, the new generation of sensors have dramatic improvement in DR. I just finished a batch of 5div files in challenging light and was blown away how much more can be done with highlights and shadows while retaining colors and natural look. You can basically push those sliders in LR all the way to their extremes now, this was never possible with 6d or 5diii. 6dii will have 45 cross AF points (allegedly) so more than enough to satify most. More importantly, it will have DPAF covering 80% of the frame.

6DII officially announced, 26mp, 45pt all cross-type af, 6.5fps....looks really nice. Looks like a steal for $2k. Kai seems to like it: https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=0crokqG2uYg

I've been reading about it and I'm still not 100% convinced that I absolutely want it instead of the 5DIV, but I'm still undecided. I've pretty much written off the idea of a 5DIII since the 6DII came out though.

johnf3f wrote in post #18387606
Not really my field of photography! I certainly think the 5D4 would be a nice, though pricey, upgrade. No sure about the 5D3 - yes it is a better camera but many (including me) feel the 6D has a better sensor,

That's not really a matter of opinion. The only quality the 5D3 sensor has over the 6D is slightly more resolution (1.049x, linear) which is ignorable. The quantity of noise is slightly worse in the 5D3 at all ISOs, and the character of the 6D noise is finer and less banded (but not perfectly random; no camera is). It will be interesting to see where this goes with the 6D2, as the 6D already has image-level noise at high ISO equivalent to the 5D4 in quantity (I haven't seen a proper character comparison), so the 6D2 should have less high-ISO noise quantity than the 5D4 if it improves on the original 6D at all, and I hopefully doubt that the character is going to revert to old-style noise.

Noise character is something that really isn't measured in standard tests, like DxOMark, but it becomes extremely important for extreme high ISO or deep shadows in small images. There really is no reason at all why current FF cameras could not produce images displayed at 6x4 inches at ISO 1 million with no obvious noise, based on the amount of noise that current cameras have; it is only the character of the read noise that prevents it. The low-frequency and one-dimensional (banding) noise that survives heavy downsizing is not reflected in the SNRs measured in cameras.

Well none of that is going to sway me in the decision to buy one vs. the other, but I'm guessing that wasn't your point.