6d2 is here.

Bassat wrote in post #18416736
Perhaps I am the lone wolf here, but I don't give a frog's fat ass about dynamic range, or low ISO shadow noise, or many of the other things that more advanced shooters seem to nitpick. I am not in this game to produce the absolute highest IQ available. I shoot family stuff to document our lives. What I do buy cameras for is FEATURES. I went to the 6D from the 5Dc and got a whole slew of upgrades for my money. I sold my 1DIV for an 80D to cut the weight of my sports/athletics kit. That move also allowed me to shoot the much lighter 70-200 f/4L IS instead of the 100-400Lc. IQ was never a consideration in that move.

None of that has any bearing on the fact that you posted a graphic in support of a point the graphic does not support. And that this thread seems to be consumed by a relatively puny DR drop, in a very small range of ISOs, in a camera that has a truckload of other upgrades over its predecessor.

Make no mistake, I am not supporting the 6DII; I have no interest in it. I bought all of its features (and more DR!) in my 80D 8 months ago.

The graphic shows that for the first time Canon has released a FF sensor that a) has more shadow noise at low ISO than its predecessor and b) that there are areas that the FF offering is inferior to the APS-C same generation offerings.

It is quite simple to understand and very quantifiable. For those of us that are thinking about changing some gear around, this is interesting and worthy of discussion, for those that care.

If a group of people are in a room talking about about the stats of a quarterback on an NFL team, and a person doesn't care about sports, or even follow it, why would they a) go into that group and start tearing apart their discussions and b) in some cases personally attack some? That person should just move on, or build up their own group to talk about cooking or whatever the remainder of people can agree on.

EDIT: Just saw your other reply, but I will leave this here for the 5 or 6 others that continue to come in and bash all over those that do care about shadow noise at low ISO.

I am in here discussing this because this affects me personally for weddings (which is already a strenuous task for me) and a few other situations. I had considered selling the 7D and moving to the 6D2 so that I can have 2 bodies with touch screens, and similar files so that my CS5 actions would work out of the gate, but now, I may have to wait until the next APS-C, as there won't be a FF in the near future that meets my expectations.

There is no issue with high ISO on the 6D2, that is obvious. However though the low ISO DR is an issue, and I really dislike the AF spread of 61 points (or lack of), I like more disbursement of those points for what I shoot. So 2 strikes for me, but perhaps after a year or so, maybe I will lighten up, especially if I can get a refurb for around $1600. A large discount sometimes cures my ills.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18416758
The graphic shows that for the first time Canon has released a FF sensor that a) has more shadow noise at low ISO than its predecessor and b) that there are areas that the FF offering is inferior to the APS-C same generation offerings.

It is quite simple to understand and very quantifiable. For those of us that are thinking about changing some gear around, this is interesting and worthy of discussion, for those that care.

If a group of people are in a room talking about about the stats of a quarterback on an NFL team, and a person doesn't care about sports, or even follow it, why would they a) go into that group and start tearing apart their discussions and b) in some cases personally attack some? That person should just move on, or build up their own group to talk about cooking or whatever the remainder of people can agree on.

EDIT: Just saw your other reply, but I will leave this here for the 5 or 6 others that continue to come in and bash all over those that do care about shadow noise at low ISO.

I am in here discussing this because this affects me personally for weddings (which is already a strenuous task for me) and a few other situations. I had considered selling the 7D and moving to the 6D2 so that I can have 2 bodies with touch screens, and similar files so that my CS5 actions would work out of the gate, but now, I may have to wait until the next APS-C, as there won't be a FF in the near future that meets my expectations.

There is no issue with high ISO on the 6D2, that is obvious. However though the low ISO DR is an issue, and I really dislike the AF spread of 61 points (or lack of), I like more disbursement of those points for what I shoot. So 2 strikes for me, but perhaps after a year or so, maybe I will lighten up, especially if I can get a refurb for around $1600. A large discount sometimes cures my ills.

You pegged me again. I don't care about sports; I'm generally in the kitchen with the women at family gatherings. And the AF spread on the 6DII is VERY odd.

Bassat wrote in post #18416768
You pegged me again. I don't care about sports; I'm generally in the kitchen with the women at family gatherings. And the AF spread on the 6DII is VERY odd.

Strangely my wife is more crazy about sports than I am. I actually am into more cooking over the last year, now that I have a set of tools I like, from new culinary knives to a complete set of cast iron cookware, including some Le Creuset pieces. I am now dabbling in sous vide cooking, as well as a torch for searing! I am about 5 steaks away from perfecting my coffee rub for ribeye, yummmmm.

So I guess the analogy works in reverse for me.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18416775
Strangely my wife is more crazy about sports than I am. I actually am into more cooking over the last year, now that I have a set of tools I like, from new culinary knives to a complete set of cast iron cookware, including some Le Creuset pieces. I am now dabbling in sous vide cooking, as well as a torch for searing! I am about 5 steaks away from perfecting my coffee rub for ribeye, yummmmm.

So I guess the analogy works in reverse for me.

Le Creuset is phenomenal. Which color do you have?

Strick wrote in post #18416742
And there is the problem, they didn't make the camera you and others wanted so now they suck as a company.

I can recall a time when the most common theme here was that bodies were not relevant, get glass and go shoot a bunch. Times sure do change.

I dont think anyone thinks canon sucks as a company.
Glass is definitively important but thats kinda an odd topic when dealing with a new camera body thread

I do want to say thank you to teamspeed as i think he has really added to this discussion without adding any personal bias or negativity to the thread.

ma11rats wrote in post #18416779
Le Creuset is phenomenal. Which color do you have?

My wife decided to go with a mix of colors, so all our canisters, frying pans, and braisers are different colors. We even have french onion soup bowls, but haven't used them yet. On the other corner of the kitchen, I have Lodge, 3 pans, a chicken fryer, and a dutch oven. I have a Lodge wok in the 2nd oven.

We only have 2 stainless steel pans (used more for canning, something else we just got into). We got rid of all other non-stick items, the cast iron stuff is king for us now.

We are now growing a garden as well, I love kale, green beans, zucchini, and chile peppers. The rest of the garden is for the wife (tomatoes galore). The tomato plants are about 5' tall now????

x-vision wrote in post #18416757
It goes both ways, really:
You seem to have an agenda as well, given that you use every opportunity to downplay the importance of dynamic range (DR).

To be honest (and I actually mean that ... Jeez, Trump has done real damage!), the only thing that matters to me is the pictures.

I don't give a damn about DR, nor any other photographic acronym, I just like great photographs.

Mostly, when you choose to look at the images produced by photographers with great cameras they are a bit (lot) disappointing. There are a few who have worked hard to get the best out of their kit (and can post good shots to prove it). But, on the whole, it is just snaps shot with better gear.

That's par for the course, and I definitely would not advise looking to my gallery for better inspiration.

The best photographs by far that I have recently seen on POTN were taken with a 5Dii (outdated and pretty much useless camera for most stuff, I am told) and a Canon 50mm F/1.4 (the least fashionable and most derided lens on this or any other planet).

Hey ... what's up?

The 5D2 is most noted for adding video to a DSLR, which has made a huge stir in the marketplace then, and now.

Other than that, it was mostly a warmed over 5D from what I found when I had a few of them. The 50D and 5D2 are the two camera bodies I wished I had never purchased in the past, they were the least interesting to me out of all the bodies I have had.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18416790
My wife decided to go with a mix of colors, so all our canisters, frying pans, and braisers are different colors. We even have french onion soup bowls, but haven't used them yet. On the other corner of the kitchen, I have Lodge, 3 pans, a chicken fryer, and a dutch oven. I have a Lodge wok in the 2nd oven.

We only have 2 stainless steel pans (used more for canning, something else we just got into). We got rid of all other non-stick items, the cast iron stuff is king for us now.

We are now growing a garden as well, I love kale, green beans, zucchini, and chile peppers. The rest of the garden is for the wife (tomatoes galore). The tomato plants are about 5' tall now????

Get the Dutch Oven if you have any use for it at all. We got one and though I cant cook at all (if not for my wife I would be 125 pounds) it makes some amazing things. Even my wife who would rightly tell you that its about the cook not the oven would sell most anything in the house before giving up that pan.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18416790
My wife decided to go with a mix of colors, so all our canisters, frying pans, and braisers are different colors. We even have french onion soup bowls, but haven't used them yet. On the other corner of the kitchen, I have Lodge, 3 pans, a chicken fryer, and a dutch oven. I have a Lodge wok in the 2nd oven.

We only have 2 stainless steel pans (used more for canning, something else we just got into). We got rid of all other non-stick items, the cast iron stuff is king for us now.

We are now growing a garden as well, I love kale, green beans, zucchini, and chile peppers. The rest of the garden is for the wife (tomatoes galore). The tomato plants are about 5' tall now????

Utterly irrelevant and absolutely proud.

Sir ... I salute you.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18416790
My wife decided to go with a mix of colors, so all our canisters, frying pans, and braisers are different colors. We even have french onion soup bowls, but haven't used them yet. On the other corner of the kitchen, I have Lodge, 3 pans, a chicken fryer, and a dutch oven. I have a Lodge wok in the 2nd oven.

We only have 2 stainless steel pans (used more for canning, something else we just got into). We got rid of all other non-stick items, the cast iron stuff is king for us now.

We are now growing a garden as well, I love kale, green beans, zucchini, and chile peppers. The rest of the garden is for the wife (tomatoes galore). The tomato plants are about 5' tall now????

We have to get the tomatoes into the ground by Feb, they're crispy and burnt by June otherwise.
Get a juicer for that kale! Kale, 1 cucumber, 1 green apple, cilantro, half a lemon juice(after blended).

I've been wanting those french onion soup bowls. I always add le creuset on my Christmas wish list for my folks. It's too expensive for me to purchase and my step-bro is a head chef for a restaurant group in town so when I ask for cooking things they get excited too.

Isn't this nicer than discussing sensor deficiencies? haha

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18416794
The 5D2 is most noted for adding video to a DSLR, which has made a huge stir in the marketplace then, and now.

Other than that, it was mostly a warmed over 5D from what I found when I had a few of them. The 50D and 5D2 are the two camera bodies I wished I had never purchased in the past, they were the least interesting to me out of all the bodies I have had.

I had the 5DMKII and hated it.. Dumped it FAST. I passed on the 50D and glad I did.

I am going to pass on the 6DMKII as well. I will have NO regrets!!!

ma11rats wrote in post #18416800
We have to get the tomatoes into the ground by Feb, they're crispy and burnt by June otherwise.
Get a juicer for that kale! Kale, 1 cucumber, 1 green apple, cilantro, half a lemon juice(after blended).

I've been wanting those french onion soup bowls. I always add le creuset on my Christmas wish list for my folks. It's too expensive for me to purchase and my step-bro is a head chef for a restaurant group in town so when I ask for cooking things they get excited too.

Isn't this nicer than discussing sensor deficiencies? haha

LOL, yes indeed. We have a Le Creuset outlet store about 3 hours from us, and we catch them when they have the 40% off. Still outrageously priced! My wife definitely wants one of their dutch ovens, in purple I believe. Sigh....

I think I bought a 6D2 with what we have in the Le Crueset pans. However the dynamic range of what I can cook and shoot doing it is much larger than the low ISO DR of the 6D2.

(see, I am trying very hard to bring myself back on track!)

Strick wrote in post #18416742
And there is the problem, they didn't make the camera you and others wanted so now they suck as a company. That logic eludes me.

Nobody is saying that Canon sucks as a company (that's something for investors to say).
I just said that many of us have been disappointed by Canon, and this is probably because Canon is trying to maximize the return for their investors, so they won't say the company sucks.

Like I said, I am convinced that the 6D2 is a cost-reduction camera made to minimize production cost and maximize profit. If it sells a lot, investors will be happy and the company will not suck.
We could discuss whether this is a winning strategy in the long term, but it's out of topic.

Of course. But there's a reason I am not writing this post with a 386 PC running Windows 3.1.
Technology progresses, and gives us more possibilities. I like more possibilities and better tools without having to wait years or having to switch brand and throw away money.

... yes... if you have the money. Else it's just keep your current kit, and hold your breath for a few more years.