6d2 is here.

Bassat wrote in post #18391233
Is that what you meant to type? If so, I don't have a clue what you are saying. Am I somehow not getting full frame dynamic range out of my 6D? Help me out, here.

Getting the benefit of the DR from the 80D(tech) into the new 6D2 'should' substantially increase it's DR over your current 6D. I believe is what was being referred to.

Edit: I reread that and now I'm confused. I'm going to go back to just listening.

The 80D only beats the 6D at DR below ISO 400. After that the 6D holds its own with the 5D4 and 1DX2. In fact, the older 7D2 almost exactly matches the 80D after ISO 400.

So, if I do have FF DR (looks like on both cameras?), what is Ed referring to?

I don't know, I just read on past the posts. Some try to be helpful, others like to stir pots.

Bassat wrote in post #18391165
I've had my 6D since it came out. I've run into the 1/4000 limitation 2, maybe 3 times. I got f/2.2 or 2.5 when I wanted f/1.8 (my fastest lenses). I've forgotten to put a card in the camera more often than that. I don't call 1/4000 a problem. A minor inconvenience at worst. Of course, the problem would be aggravated by faster glass.

I wouldn't let the camera decide if f/1.8 and 1/4000 was a problem. The camera's metering behaves like RAW does not even exist. The camera's metering might tell you that 1.8 is impossible, when in fact, it is not. Setting the camera to ISO 50 and shooting RAW, you're not likely to have a problem with any matte white that is sunlit, unless maybe you are on the top of Mount Everest the clearest day of June at solar noon, shooting something white on the ground at you feet. RAW allows your number in "sunny f/16" to go below 16, sometimes as low as 11 or 10.

Also, it's a little dangerous, because you may drop the lens, but when you are shooting at very low f-numbers, unscrewing the lens to lose communication increases the DR of the RAW. That happens below about f/2 for a camera like the 6D, maybe 2.2 for smaller pixels in the 6D2.

rantercsr wrote in post #18391027
in this thread the only mention of the 1dxII I made was in refernence to Peter mckinon (I think I spelled it right) , a popular and successful youtuber who uses the 1DX2 for a lot of his vlog style videos .
Although he admits , its not the camera he would recommend to someone asking for a vlogging camera , he goes to all sorts of places and says he doesn't want to carry a standard vlogging camera, a cinema camera and a stills camera... and so the 1Dx2 is a perfect balance for him to get what he needs ..

I called him the worst offender .. I think that's what your referencing ?

He's the worst offender because he chose the best camera for his own purposes?

He chose it for the quality of footage that it produces and for its build quality...far better than the much touted "flawless full frame video" of the A7RII.

Canon has done their market research and decided that this market is not as substantial as their core customers - photographers and cinema market. Social media, likes, subscribes and buzz on youtube and other revenues for "cheap" content do not translate directly to sales. Canon's stance (as identified by their key reps) has been to follow what their core customers want, not what the internet forums and noise demand.

And how many vloggers compare to photographers and cinematographers? Is this a huge group that will outweigh sales of the other groups?

Canon has the C100 II, C200 and C300 II for said needs. Honestly, if you shoot professionally, let's say weddings, very few shoot at 4K because of the demands it requires on infrastructure and computing. The ones who do understand what they're getting themselves into. The C100 Mark II is very affordable for people who are serious about video instead of dabbling and messing with external ND filters...or the A7S users who care little about shutter angle.

It was designed for matching footage with A cameras like the C300II and C700 and Arri Alexas. It's not necessarily for people putting their toes into video.

Canon already addressed this; they omitted 4K because of cooling required for it in a small body. There are cooling issues in competing products including the A9 that push spec first on their agenda. Canon's agenda is stability.

Name your complaints about the a6500, please? Was it because you tried to do 4K on it? Were you happy with the jello shutter?

The A7SII doesn't have DPAF. Strange omission, don't you think? Do you see Canon users whining that Sony crippled the A7SII? At $3200 release price point? FS5 and FS7 and FS7II all omit phase detect autofocus. Aren't they "crippled" then?

Every camera has its upgrade lifecycle and product segmentation. Sony is just as "guilty" of this, with sometimes less rhyme and reason (A7SII PDAF omission, A9 S Log omission, FS5 artifacting in high frame rate, underwhelming FS7II release). It's absolutely common practice in this industry.

That no company offers a full frame camera with 4K offers little incentive for Canon to do so. When someone does and when there's enough real demand, then we'll see Canon's response.

idkdc wrote in post #18391281
He's the worst offender because he chose the best camera for his own purposes?

He chose it for the quality of footage that it produces and for its build quality...far better than the much touted "flawless full frame video" of the A7RII.

Canon has done their market research and decided that this market is not as substantial as their core customers - photographers and cinema market. Social media, likes, subscribes and buzz on youtube and other revenues for "cheap" content do not translate directly to sales. Canon's stance (as identified by their key reps) has been to follow what their core customers want, not what the internet forums and noise demand.

And how many vloggers compare to photographers and cinematographers? Is this a huge group that will outweigh sales of the other groups?

Canon has the C100 II, C200 and C300 II for said needs. Honestly, if you shoot professionally, let's say weddings, very few shoot at 4K because of the demands it requires on infrastructure and computing. The ones who do understand what they're getting themselves into. The C100 Mark II is very affordable for people who are serious about video instead of dabbling and messing with external ND filters...or the A7S users who care little about shutter angle.

It was designed for matching footage with A cameras like the C300II and C700 and Arri Alexas. It's not necessarily for people putting their toes into video.

Canon already addressed this; they omitted 4K because of cooling required for it in a small body. There are cooling issues in competing products including the A9 that push spec first on their agenda. Canon's agenda is stability.

Name your complaints about the a6500, please? Was it because you tried to do 4K on it? Were you happy with the jello shutter?

The A7SII doesn't have DPAF. Strange omission, don't you think? Do you see Canon users whining that Sony crippled the A7SII? At $3200 release price point? FS5 and FS7 and FS7II all omit phase detect autofocus. Aren't they "crippled" then?

Every camera has its upgrade lifecycle and product segmentation. Sony is just as "guilty" of this, with sometimes less rhyme and reason (A7SII PDAF omission, A9 S Log omission, FS5 artifacting in high frame rate). It's common practice in this industry.

Wow..lol

ok .. not even sure where to begin..

when I said worst offender , I meant in the breaking the rule of vloggers cameras are supposed to be light , small and have an articultating screen..

-yes that's right , that's what I said ,... he chose it because he didn't want to carry 3 cameras and he didn't want to compromise quality..

he makes awesome , high quality content .. have you seen his videos?

-- a lot of people watching these vloggers are young aspiring photographers , looking for direction..eventually they will be in the market for more than just an iPhone or galaxy , I think canon should keep them in mind .. the world of camera users is bigger and more diverse than a lot of people think

--the a6500..tried 4k? i lived on 4k with it lol ...if it were purely based on image quality, stills or video , in my opinion nothing beats the a6500 at it price point (within apsc).. yet I sold it for the 80d(although to be fair only because I have the a7sii) .. 4k video is the sharpest 4k available in a non cinema camera .. sharper than my a7sii , sharper than the gh5... rolling shutter? no I don't do action video, no quick panning for me , never had that be a major issue.. for me ,, but yes rolling shutter is horrendous on the a6500.. , I hated the ergonomics. not enough dials ,, it slowed me down..the rear screen near useless in daylight, the glare and dimness were horrible... the images both stills and video were awesome best raw files when it comes to dynaminc range.. bracket shooting not neccassary ..... but I already have the a7sii whos AF sucks , but I've gotten better at manual focusing , so I decided a7sii for video and my canon 80d for stills .. not that the a7sii isn't good for stills , if what yuou are shooting is not moving lol.. so yeah needed something better for moving subjects

--I'm not sure what you are rambling on about .. ,I am not a "sony user" , I am a photography and videography enthusiast !.. Ive owned canon t4i , 5d3 ,80d , Panasonic and sony cameras..."canon users complaining" ? don't care about them , I do like to listen to people who were hoping to use a system but feel a bit under whelmed by specs and discuss why they feel that way and keep an open mind .. like why the hell cant sony make a camera with better heat management .... you seem like you are in attack mode..
the a7sii is far from perfect ,and any other camera sony makes , which is why I got decent with manual focus. and why I got an 80d

criticizing is not bashing , or hating on ...

not sure what else to say
Never said sony was without its flaws , every brand compromises in one place to excel at another... not sure why you are critisicing sony as if that would fix , or change my opinion on canon?

by criticing canon , I am not attacking canon users.. just want to make that clear.. as it seems many here are confusing that fact..

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18391245
The 80D only beats the 6D at DR below ISO 400. After that the 6D holds its own with the 5D4 and 1DX2. In fact, the older 7D2 almost exactly matches the 80D after ISO 400.

Not a real surprise since it's always been true that DR exponentially goes down with higher ISO. For awhile, ISO performance has been quite good: now there's a push to improve read noise and have improved low ISO DR. FF "tends" to be better with higher ISO because of larger pixel pitch. Software also improves over time. No doubt that the new Canon sensors have better low ISO DR (and is getting better with exposure latitude in shadows). But I've also noticed my lowly 5Dc RAWs now have some better shadow recovery with the new ACR algorithms as well. "Back in the day" when I was shooting for processing in then current CS3, I'd get pretty bad noise and banding with any shadow recovery tool. Now when I revisit 5Dc files, they still have more noise compared to newer cameras, but they're not nearly as bad as I remember.

wow, this thread is going all over the place! In regards to video with "prosumer" Canon vs Sony....yeah, Sony seems to have better video options for smaller form factor "prosumer" type market. I don't agree that 4K was omitted in the 6DII because of the size: I think it's Canon purposely seperating their pro cinema lines with consumer DSLRs. While there are some mirrorless/DSLR systems that seem good and appropriate for even 4K video, most videographers are better served with dedicated video systems (which Panasonic, Sony, Canon, Red, and Arri are major hitters).

Bassat wrote in post #18391195
I'll likely end up with a 6D2. I can wait until the price drops to $1800 or so, and the refurbs are going for $1400-$1500. My only fear is the bottom dropping out of the 6D used market by then.

I would probably be willing you wait a while but I didn't want my 6D value to drop after release so i figured if I got it at release, I get better resale value for the 6D and get the camera straight away. Win win for me

Dlee13 wrote in post #18391336
I would probably be willing you wait a while but I didn't want my 6D value to drop after release so i figured if I got it at release, I get better resale value for the 6D and get the camera straight away. Win win for me

That makes sense. A refurb for $1400 saves me $700 over today's price. The current 6D would have to tank SEVERELY to be worth only $200 six months from now. And I'm not in a hurry because I see no upgrade in gear/capability here.

rantercsr wrote in post #18391291
Wow..lol

ok .. not even sure where to begin..

when I said worst offender , I meant in the breaking the rule of vloggers cameras are supposed to be light , small and have an articultating screen..

I'm sorry, but by "worst offender," you imply there's a "right" way of doing things. There are no "rules" regarding creating content. Preferences, sure.

I have, which is why I think he's got his head in the right place.

Most camera purchasers are older men. There's demographics already collected by the camera companies which you're welcome to look up. Actually, your prediction has another possible outcome: for many, the smartphone is enough and will continue being enough. If anything, camera companies are going more upmarket to avoid these purchasers.

I thought vlogging would find autofocus quite useful.

--I'm not sure what you are rambling on about .. ,I am not a "sony user" , I am a photography and videography enthusiast !.. Ive owned canon t4i , 5d3 ,80d , Panasonic and sony cameras..."canon users complaining" ? don't care about them , I do like to listen to people who were hoping to use a system but feel a bit under whelmed by specs and discuss why they feel that way and keep an open mind .. like why the hell cant sony make a camera with better heat management .... you seem like you are in attack mode..
the a7sii is far from perfect ,and any other camera sony makes , which is why I got decent with manual focus. and why I got an 80d

criticizing is not bashing , or hating on ...

not sure what else to say
Never said sony was without its flaws , every brand compromises in one place to excel at another... not sure why you are critisicing sony as if that would fix , or change my opinion on canon?

by criticing canon , I am not attacking canon users.. just want to make that clear.. as it seems many here are confusing that fact..

Not every dissenting opinion is an "attack." Check your word count, mate. I might be confusing you with another poster here, but it seems like you're complaining that there isn't a a6500, or a a7s III for $2100, in Canon's lineup yet, and the 1DX II and 5DIV cameras are overkill for vloggers...who somehow constitute a larger or at least equally important customer base than the cinema market or core still photographer? Sounds like you have some Goldilocks syndrome (I don't mean this in any harsh way). You're conflating that Canon didn't make your perfect camera with Canon making some large market research mistake.

.. really not sure why you're twisting my Peter mckininon comment as some sort of negative comment , when it isn't at all..

and some day the younger generation will be older men/..\

yes good autofocus is good for vlogging ,, not sure where I said other wise..??


no I don't want an a6500 or a7sii equivalient for 2000 bucks..

I said , in the post you quoted .. although you left this part out

I didn't expect 4k from the 6d2.. I don't think its a bad stills camera..
I would have been happier with it , if it had better 1080p , more than 60p and clog..


I DO think Canon could have WOWED the hell out of the world , and put a sock in all the sony fanboys mouths .. if they had included just 4k at 24p ,,, even with a crop , but not in mjpeg ..

why wait for sony to do it?

be the first .. F'ing canon was the one who started the dslr video movement .. before that the average joe couldn't afford it ... I LOVE canons color science and that s why as an amateur video messer abouter ,, I get annoyed with canon when they lag so far behind in that department ..no I;m not saying canon doesn't do good cinema cameras .. but for those that cant drop 5g's ..

anyway , continue to paint me as the canon basher and sony fan boi if you want .. thos e are my thoughts

I am that guy that is rooting for the team , just annoyed at the decisions the managers make..

Has anyone seen any worthwhile comparisons of 5D3 vs 6D2? This seems more logical to me than 6D vs 6D2 due to the price the cameras now come in at and both being FF with decent autofocus.

I'm in NZ so good S/H 5D3 is $2500NZD and the 6D2 is reported at $3300NZD.

I used to shoot Canon (30D/1D2n/50D/650D-video/S95/S110/G1X) but then went to Fuji for the last 2 years. I still have some Canon primes and want to come back to FF with decent autofocus. I've been waiting for the 6D2 to be released and am pleased with AF improvement.

I'm a photographer, only video will be family snapshot/holiday so 4K isn't an issue (I probably wouldn't use it anyway due to storage!)

Bassat wrote in post #18391339
That makes sense. A refurb for $1400 saves me $700 over today's price. The current 6D would have to tank SEVERELY to be worth only $200 six months from now. And I'm not in a hurry because I see no upgrade in gear/capability here.

I don't know what you guys think the 6D is going to drop to. The 5D2 is still going strong at $700-800...5 years after being replaced. Canon's not going to drop the 6D2 before Christmas. It might have a sale by then but I have a feeling it'll be a mail-in-rebate vs instant discount.

Why do you think it'll drop below $800(average clean prices, not the high mileage 'well used') ? I think it's going to hold personally, and the 5D3 around $1300, used 6D2 $1500-1600, new $1800 next summer.

6D will hold it's ground on the used market for the sole fact that it's still a great high ISO body. It's value is prime right now. It's a freaking great camera for $900 used. And I think people will be willing to keep buying it at near that price.