6d2 is here.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18406580
I still think the noise characteristic is better though, and combined with a higher resolution, you could get slightly better results with a 6D2 at high ISOs over the 6D after post processing. So there is a bit of light through the clouds there with the 6D2.

meh. i'm not interested in slightly better results at high ISO and slightly worse at low ISO.

Owning the original 6D, and considering what I do with it, paying 2x ... an additional 1000-1200 bucks ... for a II over another "classic" would literally be a stupid decision.

my primary interest in following this release has been to know what I pick up at a moments notice if my 6DC fails. Although I might have immediately purchased a II if it matched the 5DIV in IQ. If it was half a stop behind 5DIV I probably would have bought one at the end of the year. If it was .75 or 1 stop behind, it would be at the top of the list should I need a quick fix.

1.75 behind the IV? Significantly behind the new crop cameras? To me, that is laughable.

It will be interesting to see if non-IQ features alone will sell this camera.

and it will be interesting to see if it lasts more than a couple of years in the Canon line up.

I didnt keep up with the 77d bit it seems like a similar type of release where you ask yourself what is the point

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18406548
It might be possible too that the 6D2 hits Canon refurbished store sooner than most other previous offerings. I suspect there will be some very good deals on the refurb 6D2 by Thanksgiving (or Christmas). For those that can wait, but are still interested in the 6D2, perhaps that patience can become a savings. I have to imagine the return rate for this camera is going to be pretty high, for those that still dismiss the IQ tests so far (or are unaware of the situation), buy or have preordered the 6D2 anyways, but then find out they are real when they go shoot.

If I make sure I expose properly (like I have to do with APS-C), the 6D2 at a refurbished sale price might be a nice addition to the stable. The other features are nice, and it is a bit more travel friendly than the 5D4.

I was thinking about cancelling my pre-order and waiting for refurbs, too. To me, 6d2 is priced too high for its value. But, then I would probably end up renting a 6D for my fall trip, so I wouldn't save anything.

Right now, I have a 70D. I would like a camera with better IQ, less noise and higher resolution. I have rented a 6D before, liked it, except the AF system drove me batty. 6D2 should have been great for me (I even geotag most of my photos), but the whole DR thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm used to being careful with exposures in backlit or high contrast situations, but it makes me wonder what else is wrong with the new sensor.

I am waiting to see what transpires, but if these initial indications are true, I am astonished at Canon's chutzpah. All they had to do is to include the 5D4 sensor in the camera and make it sufficiently less capable in other departments - 4K, focus points, dual slots, etc., to offer sufficient differentiation to the 5D4.

Well that DPR article certainly has made the poo hit the fan !

It is a bit disappointing, though, isn't it ? If they'd only down-pixelled (I'm copyrighting that term) the 30mp from the 5D4 instead.

Anyhoo, I'll still be getting one when used prices hit £1000-1100 in the UK. I never push shadows past 1.5-2 stops and at that point it's not too bad, about the same as the 6Dc in real world terms. I'll enjoy the extra detail if it turns out that what DLee saw is present in real world photos. I find the files from my 6D a little soft compared to my old 5Dc.

Hopefully all this poo-flinging (also copyrighted) will drive the used price of these down all the more !

Win-win.

Scrumhalf wrote in post #18406641
All they had to do is to include the 5D4 sensor in the camera and make it sufficiently less capable in other departments - 4K, focus points, dual slots, etc., to offer sufficient differentiation to the 5D4.

My thoughts exactly!

On the surface, it appears that using the same sensor in both the 5DIV and 6DII would make the most sense for Canon.
Like for Nikon, for example, where the D500 and D7500 share the same sensor.

But Canon somehow always manages to do something that (seemingly?) defies logic.

x-vision wrote in post #18406689
My thoughts exactly!

On the surface, it appears that using the same sensor in both the 5DIV and 6DII would make the most sense for Canon.
Like for Nikon, for example, where the D500 and D7500 share the same sensor.

But Canon somehow always manages to do something that (seemingly?) defies logic.

Maybe they have been number 1 too long and sort of got this attitude that their s**t doesn't stink.

I REALLY want a 6D2! The $ is just sitting there under the mattress! But, how can I possibly justify selling the 80D and spending an additional $1000.00?

gjl711 wrote in post #18406695
Maybe they have been number 1 too long and sort of got this attitude that their s**t doesn't stink.

To me it was always they knew they could get away with making tiny improvements and charging huge bucks for them because people wanted to stay in their eco system because of the lenses.

The Tamrons/Sigma's are starting to catch them on this front. More importantly if Sony can get their AF better with the adapter so people could seamlessly switch to sony I think it would force Canon to do something other than wait 5 years to release a camera that is several years behind the competition. Especially in the sensor department and their refusal to not have more than one camera without a AA filter.

Scoobert wrote in post #18406754
...
The Tamrons/Sigma's are starting to catch them on this front. More importantly if Sony can get their AF better with the adapter so people could seamlessly switch to sony I think it would force Canon to do something other than wait 5 years to release a camera that is several years behind the competition. Especially in the sensor department and their refusal to not have more than one camera without a AA filter.

Yea, I suspect I'm going to have to go the Sony route. From what I have been reading about the A7III, if it really turns out to be a mini A9, this is going to bury the 6DII image wise and performance wise.

SixDeeFan wrote in post #18406750
I REALLY want a 6D2! The $ is just sitting there under the mattress! But, how can I possibly justify selling the 80D and spending an additional $1000.00?

I'd take that $1k and get clean used copy of the original 6d and have the 6d/80D combo. Or like what was mentioned previously, wait for the refurbs to show up.

Well after all the teaser info released and discussed I know one thing for certain....I'll be putting in a request for the 5D4 on a CPS eval loan for my Sedona wedding next month. The mountain tops are always brighter than down in the valley. I know I'll be bringing up shadows more than I normally would for the weddings on golf courses I usually shoot at.

ma11rats wrote in post #18406837
Well after all the teaser info released and discussed I know one thing for certain....I'll be putting in a request for the 5D4 on a CPS eval loan for my Sedona wedding next month. The mountain tops are always brighter than down in the valley. I know I'll be bringing up shadows more than I normally would for the weddings on golf courses I usually shoot at.

Out of curiosity why not a 5dsr if you are going for pulling shadows?

Uh oh. Even Canon Rumors is now showcasing the issue. For Canon's sake, I hope the 'issue' is some form of firmware degradation that they're implementing(maybe a type of NR that's limiting output of DR from capture -> file output?? I have no idea) to keep it separated from the 5d4 and that Canon can 'turn it off' in a firmware upgrade.

Once these get out into the youtubers hands, there's going to be an infinite amount videos of people bashing this camera. When prospective buyers(non-forum people) go to search online, there's going to be an incredible amount of bad press for this camera. Really the only negative on the original 6d was it's basic AF system. But, generally speaking it was well regarded. This camera is going to be played out as worse in the minds of the reviewers.

x-vision wrote in post #18404597
The 5DS is a more expensive camera than the 5DIV - and yet, its DR performance at base ISO is worse than both the 5DIV and the 80D.
And the reason for that is that the 5DS is still using external ADCs - as opposed to the on-chip ADCs in the 5DIV and 80D.

Based on the pre-production RAWs, the 6DII DR performance is consistent with the use of external ADCs, just like the 5DS.

Note that that 5DS is still a current model in Canon's lineup (and will likely remain so at least until Photokina next year).
So, technically, Canon is not 'backtracking' with the 6DII sensor.
This sensor is still made on a current Canon tech - just not the very latest.

Interesting to see how folks interpret things in ways in which none of us have understanding about the effects...like external A/D vs. on-chip A/D magnitude of impact. Certainly internal vs. external A/D conversion has a benefit, but on the face of if we have zero understanding of the quanitification of the benefit...while we CAN see the impact of smaller area pixels.

Fact is, the 5DS is 50Mpixel with pixel pitch of 0.004144mm vs. 5DIV having 30MPixel with pixel pitch of 0.055357mm, or the 5DS pixel has only 60% of the pixel area, leading to reduced S/N in the 5DS in order to support higher pixel count, which means less DR too.