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Thread started 17 Aug 2017 (Thursday) 15:56
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Sick of 5D mkIII auto focus issues

 
gossamer88
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Post edited 9 months ago by gossamer88.
     
Sep 10, 2017 17:31 |  #76

I was in a similar boat a few months ago. I loved the 6D but also had focusing issues. Sent it to Canon and they found a problem and fixed it. It was under warranty. I soon sold it and got the 5D3. I was waiting for the Mark IV but it never materialized until a year later. I then sold the 5D3 and got a good deal on the 5D4. There are better deals now of course.

I was suffering from a serious case of G.A.S. I was going to trade the 5D4 for the 6D1. No takers. Well not really. Some offers, but I did not want to lose too much. During that time I was of course using the 5D4 and really loving it. I closed the ad because I got too used to the touch screen, the higher resolution, and love the Dual Pixel AF.

The focusing system is pretty much the same as the 5D3. Which I was already used to. The 6D1 is so basic in comparison. There's a huge learning curve, but once you use it, there's no going back.

My 2¢.


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AlanU
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Sep 10, 2017 18:24 |  #77

johnf3f wrote in post #18448854 (external link)
I have not had much experience of the 5D4 - though I have played with several and I am quite impressed with the AF and IQ.

However there is a cheaper alternative - namely a used 1DX? So long as the weight and low pixel count are not an issue then the responsiveness and AF will impress. Also even a 1DX with 200K clicks on it will still have more design life left in it than a brand new 5D4. Oh yest - there is the battery life too.

Just a thought?

Agreed if your into stills only.

For a general use camera with more family documentation capabilities having dual pixel AF and video the 5d4 is the reason why i bought it. This is the reason why I really appreciate my 80D and 5dmk4. For others who careless about video the 1dx mk1 is great but it's also heavier.


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raptor3x
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Post edited 9 months ago by raptor3x.
     
Sep 10, 2017 18:35 |  #78

welshwizard1971 wrote in post #18448719 (external link)
There's no motion blur, it's a toddler going slower than his normal walking speed shot at 1/800, the consensus earlier was that a slower shutter speed was good for a toddler running, which is faster than this. I obviously had the luxury of being there, and I can tell you his head was down the whole time, it's not motion blur.

I'm sorry but I really doubt you're correct here, I've shot enough table tennis using a 200mm f/2.0 near MFD to have seen this exact issue time and time again. I know somebody said something about 1/640s being enough but in this case the shutter speed simply isn't fast enough to get a pin sharp image due to the lens being shot wide open at a fairly close range. Now why am I so sure of this? It's not because I'm being a big ole' internet meanie intent on insulting you. Let start with some things we can, hopefully, agree on:

  • There exists a point on the ground that is very sharp.
  • The ground is stationary.
  • The front wheel is out of focus.
  • The rear wheels are out of focus.
  • The region of sharp focus is located somewhere between the front wheel and the rear wheels.

So, if we can agree on these and we suppose that shutter speed is fast enough for motion to not be an issue then you should be able to locate some point on the subject that is just as sharp as what we see on the ground. If it is front focus like you're thinking then somewhere on the fork, head tube, or steerer tube should be sharp. To my eyes there's nothing on the entire subject (child and bicycle) that is as sharp as what we see on the ground, but I'm interested to hear what you see in the image.

welshwizard1971 wrote in post #18448719 (external link)
Not great contrast granted, but I was aiming at his face not his forehead, with 5 or 9 points selected covering his entire face, and it is showing a focus point so focus was 'achieved', allegedly.

The second one is very likely a failure of the AF system to some degree, generally if you get an entire sequence OOF like that then the camera had trouble locking onto some high contrast target at the beginning and just flubs through the entire sequence.


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johnf3f
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Sep 11, 2017 17:28 as a reply to  @ AlanU's post |  #79

Good point - I don't even know how to video on (with my 1DX) so didn't even consider it!


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bobbyz
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Post edited 9 months ago by bobbyz.
     
Sep 11, 2017 18:27 |  #80

AlanU wrote in post #18448681 (external link)
Wizard,

Currently my "difficult" big test I have is following my kids on a fast spinning amusement park rides. I'll say my 80D gives me alot of confidence while my "flagship" Fuji X-t2 with my current lens combo definitely cannot match my prosumer 80D/lens combos.

Alan, you got to post these shots where 80d works but XT2 doesn't. First you were saying indoors low light where I can say sure Fuji might not be the best option, but even outside? Which lenses on both systems?

I have 5dmk3 and XT1 and I can say kid coming at me, XT1 will nail more. I can post samples if someone wants. Probably already did in old threads. Oh, I use 300mm f2.8 IS I on my 5dmk3. 50-140mm on XT1.


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AlanU
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Sep 11, 2017 19:16 |  #81

bobbyz wrote in post #18449733 (external link)
Alan, you got to post these shots where 80d works but XT2 doesn't. First you were saying indoors low light where I can say sure Fuji might not be the best option, but even outside? Which lenses on both systems?

I have 5dmk3 and XT1 and I can say kid coming at me, XT1 will nail more. I can post samples if someone wants. Probably already did in old threads. Oh, I use 300mm f2.8 IS I on my 5dmk3. 50-140mm on XT1.

Bobby hows a 70-200 f/2.8IS mk2 for AF speed?? I can say tracking a child running using zone "spray and pray" using fuji Algorithm should be fine in landing shots at the distance you'd be at a baseball game. I think my X-t2 with Battery booster grip in boost mode would do better than the X-t1. My 5d3 or even 5d4 should land shots quite easily tracking a running child.....I've NEVER had a problem doing that.

Just recently I went to the local "Playland" amusement park with my 3 kids and their friends. Pouring rain at times but due to time schedule we had to make go....they were closing down prepping for Halloween Fright night in the next 2 weeks.

I brought my 80D with 24-70Lmk2 and Fuji I stuck the 55-200 on it. This particular situation I know it's not a fair test as the 55-200 isn't blazing fast in AF. BUT I will say my limited lens selection I also do not have blazing fast AF lenses in my gearbag.

With extremely fast spinning rides ( I will say with no exaggeration) The 5dmk3 or even my 80D in AI Servo can track my kids/friends using center point focus. The X-t2 using center point with "C" constant AF would not even be able to focus. Using Zone spray and pray is not an option due to targeting very specific subjects while the ride is spinning.

This is nothing like a single subject running. That is not a challenge compared to tracking a child on an extremely fast spinning ride. Sometimes I think I should do video documentation to display how fast the ride is spinning. Many of my photos I was shooting ISO 5000, 1/2500 using my Canon 24-70L f/2.8mk2.

This is not the ride at my amusement park but here's an example of the speed where the X-t2 cannot keep up with using a 10-24mm or 16mm f/1.4 prime. The fuji system is very dependent on the lens used. Canon on the other hand has more faster AF speed IMO. I would say using a 100LIS or 85Lmk2 would be good example of being a dog tracking kids. That combo in Canon would warrant throwing the camera gear against a wall :)

https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=bLHz5S_cGk0 (external link)

The 80d no contest in pitch darkness with speed light infra red focus assist grid on Canon speedlight will virtually land every single AF photo using single shot. I can confidently say my X-t2 with EF-X500 cannot achieve this kind of hit rate compared to my Canon gear.

Bobby, I know your phasing out your canon to some respects. I will never let my mirrored bodies go nor will I dump my Fuji. They are totally different applications in my tool box. I love the IQ both systems provide. No matter what do not test a 5dmk4 ;)

I will say I cannot regret the extremely responsive system on the 5d3 and 5d4. The Fuji X-t2 I cannot confidently use at a reception when AF is absolutely critical. However my Canon has never ever let me down. I choose Fuji for very specific reasons and when critical AF is absolutely necessary and I want usable 12800 or 25600 the fuji stays at home. The recent 3 day massive car event I did as the official photographer at the biggest VW show in Canada....Great Canadian VW show the fuji did a killer job and my 5d3 produce stellar images too.

I get it.... the Fuji using zone "spray and pray" is pretty good. Tracking a small target on a spinning fast amusement park ride my X-t2 failed. My 80D did it with ease. My 5d3 would have been able to perform the same AF performance too.


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bobbyz
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Post edited 9 months ago by bobbyz. (6 edits in all)
     
Sep 12, 2017 14:10 |  #82

I would have loved to see the 80d shots which XT2 couldn't do. And I had 55-200, it was dog compared to 50-140mm in AF dept. Side ways movements my XT1 is still not good but honestly you should show some problem shots so we know where you coming from. XT2 can't be that bad IMHO. From what you saying looks like 80d is better than 1dmk4. Maybe it is, I haven't used it. But would like to see the results. I may even buy one as I know video probably really good.

Wish my 1dmk2 could do this. Canon AF is good but not that great either. There is a reason so many folks moving to Nikon lately for AF (and that Sony sensor).

http://www.bobbyzphoto​graphy.com/img/s1/v21/​p2267264862.gif (external link)


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Post edited 9 months ago by Two Hot Shoes. (3 edits in all)
     
Sep 13, 2017 17:28 |  #83

AlanU wrote in post #18449758 (external link)
I brought my 80D with 24-70Lmk2 and Fuji I stuck the 55-200 on it. This particular situation I know it's not a fair test as the 55-200 isn't blazing fast in AF. BUT I will say my limited lens selection I also do not have blazing fast AF lenses in my gearbag.

With extremely fast spinning rides ( I will say with no exaggeration) The 5dmk3 or even my 80D in AI Servo can track my kids/friends using center point focus. The X-t2 using center point with "C" constant AF would not even be able to focus. Using Zone spray and pray is not an option due to targeting very specific subjects while the ride is spinning.

This is nothing like a single subject running. That is not a challenge compared to tracking a child on an extremely fast spinning ride. Sometimes I think I should do video documentation to display how fast the ride is spinning. Many of my photos I was shooting ISO 5000, 1/2500 using my Canon 24-70L f/2.8mk2.


I think you'd be better saying that between the two lenses, the $1900 EF 24-70 F/2.8 Mk2 and the $700 XF55-220F/3.5-4.8, the Canon was faster in locking on and staying with fast moving subjects.

I can show you shots from a very fast fairground ride with Fuji's $1200 XF16-55 F/2.8, a much better match to the Canon zoom, where ALL the shots are sharp and on point:

https://twohotshoes.co​m …uji-xf16-55-f2-8-r-lm-wr/ (external link)

And that was before Fuji gave us the better AF that the X-T2 had at launch [In the X-PRO2 that I use].


As far as Canon's 5D3 AF 'issues' that was one of the reasons I got to like shooting with Fuji [I believe mirrorless on the whole], the AF is on chip not a separate sensor that gets misaligned or whatever. When it's good - awesome - but for the times is not, for whatever or the reasons, it just down annoying. 5D3 is an awesome do all camera and Canon's lenses are on top, IMO, for FF cameras. So much choice of really great lenses. Having had Canon Dual Pixel AF in the 70D, I could really see just how good a mirrorless camera could focus and at the time is was shockingly good but as typical Canon it took far too long to move the tech along. The 70D now that was horrendous using the viewfinder, constant front or back AFing. Don't miss that one at all but I'm sure the 80D is better there.


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Nov 28, 2017 15:18 |  #84

mystik610 wrote in post #18430541 (external link)
This is precisely the reason I'll never shoot on a DSLR again....the critical focus accuracy just isn't there and it has nothing to do with settings. Separating the image sensor and the AF sensor is always going to have some deviation.

I stopped using DSLR's even when my best option at the time was MF on the original a7R, because even that was more consistently accurate with focus peaking.

I always have superb success with both my DSLRs provided contacts are clean, and change lenses when there's not a bunch of dust.

Provided there is adequate light, and the cameras are maintained, what you wrote is not something I experience.

...


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Nov 28, 2017 16:31 |  #85

mdvaden wrote in post #18506084 (external link)
I always have superb success with both my DSLRs provided contacts are clean, and change lenses when there's not a bunch of dust.

Provided there is adequate light, and the cameras are maintained, what you wrote is not something I experience.

...

It depends on what you shoot, but microfocus issues with dslr's is a well understood and accepted reality when shooting at fast apertures. If this were not an issue, in camera microfocus adjustments, and all these microfocus softwares would not exist.

There is no microfocus adjust feature in mirrorless bodies because it's an issue that does not exist when the AF system is part of the image sensor itself


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Nov 28, 2017 16:49 |  #86

mystik610 wrote in post #18506199 (external link)
It depends on what you shoot, but microfocus issues with dslr's is a well understood and accepted reality when shooting at fast apertures. If this were not an issue, microfocus adjustments, and all these microfocus softwares would not exist.

There is no microfocus adjust feature in mirrorless bodies because it's an issue that does not exist when the AF system is part of the image sensor itself

Not completely true, when adapting 43 lenses with an E-M1/E-M1ii it's pretty common to have to microadjust the lens as Olympus doesn't use a CDAF finishing step like with m43 lenses. Sony has a similar CDAF finishing step when shooting S-AF.


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Prathamesh
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Jan 17, 2018 02:14 |  #87

Hello guys
Please help :-(
I have 5d mark 3
Around 2 years old
Something camera works perfectly & all buttons working properly
But sometimes after i switch camera ON Then camera directly going to live view & photo /video
Switch not working & live view to viewfinder button also not working
& That time all buttons working expect " Q " & " delete" button
I reset all settings & update firmware but same thing happens with cam
& If i keep camera off for sometime then work perfectly & all buttons properly work
But sometimes this problem happens.

So is there motherboard issue?
Or start/stop button issue ?but sometimes this buttons work properly
Or is there any sensor for viewfinder to live view in mark 3 may be the sensor problem ?




  
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gjl711
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Jan 17, 2018 09:13 |  #88

Prathamesh wrote in post #18542800 (external link)
Hello guys
Please help :-(
I have 5d mark 3
Around 2 years old
Something camera works perfectly & all buttons working properly
But sometimes after i switch camera ON Then camera directly going to live view & photo /video
Switch not working & live view to viewfinder button also not working
& That time all buttons working expect " Q " & " delete" button
I reset all settings & update firmware but same thing happens with cam
& If i keep camera off for sometime then work perfectly & all buttons properly work
But sometimes this problem happens.

So is there motherboard issue?
Or start/stop button issue ?but sometimes this buttons work properly
Or is there any sensor for viewfinder to live view in mark 3 may be the sensor problem ?

We could take guessess all day and some might actually be right however, your best bet is to send to Canon for evaluation.


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Sick of 5D mkIII auto focus issues
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