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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera 
Thread started 12 Oct 2017 (Thursday) 18:27
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You've got no gear at all - Would you get a 5DMKIV or D850

 
Tom ­ Reichner
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Dec 24, 2017 10:51 |  #226

Scoobert wrote in post #18525349 (external link)
It seems as you can accept no answer that does not come up with the Canon.

I find it odd that you think that. . Although I use Canon gear, I am not all "pro-canon". . I have been frustrated with Canon in the past, because of some of the limitations that their camera bodies have, and I expect to continue to be frustrated with them into the near future.

The lack of a truly silent shutter is a very real problem in Canon's lineup. . The lack of focus peaking via a touchscreen is also very discouraging. . These things would make a very positive difference in the images that I would be able to capture, and currently Canon offers no suitable answer to these needs.

The high ISO performance and dynamic range in Canon's current DSLRs is plenty good enough for my needs - more than good enough, in fact. . The practical differences between the D850 and the 5D4, in these areas, is so minute that it doesn't make any difference at all. . These things just aren't important factors when choosing a camera body when the two bodies under consideration are so close to one another.

If the comments that I made in this post make you think that I am pro-Canon, then you have an inaccurate way of interpreting my statements.

All things considered, Canon offers an overall system that, at this time, is slightly better for my needs than either Nikon or Sony. . But I do not think that Canon's camera bodies are necessarily better than those made by Nikon or Sony. . All three systems have strengths, and all three have shortcomings.

When you consider the question that the OP asked in the initial post, you must first consider the overall system, not just the body. . If I find that the Canon system is a better fit for the kind of photography I do, then I will, of course, choose the Canon body, even if the Nikon equivalent body is better.

I'm not going to choose an entire system just because that system's camera bodies are better. . The body is actually a really small part of the overall system, and a not-too-important part, at that. . I currently have over $20,000 worth of photography gear that I use on a daily basis. . Only about $1200 of that $20,000 is in bodies (my 1D4 and my 50D backup). . The body just doesn't matter very much compared to everything else.

.

.


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Bear ­ Dale
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Dec 24, 2017 17:01 |  #227

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18525132 (external link)
Does high ISO noise performance and dynamic range matter to you, or was it something else that caused you to switch over to Nikon?

.
.


I'd been with Canon since my AE-1 Program.

My wife and I stopped at a restaurant for dinner whilst we were in the middle of a 3 week photography holiday, came out and someone had put a brick through the window of our SUV and taken all the gear.
Reported it to he police and they were able to get CCTV of the smash and grabber from a shop across from where we were parked and they were able to locate him about a week later. He'd already offloaded all the gear for peanuts for drugs.
Luckily all the gear was insured.

The Nikon D850 was announced and I thought, here's my chance to finally give Nikon a go after all these years of a massive Canon investment.

I'm very happy with the high end Nikon glass. I had every iteration of Canons 70-200mm lenses (ƒ4 & ƒ2.8) and the Nikon 70-200mm ƒ2.8 is in its own league. The only lens that I haven't replaced is the MP-E 65mm as there's no Nikon comparison, but that was a lens that I never really mastered or used, even having both macro flashes didn't even help me getting any 'wow' shots.

If I had to go back to a Canon body and L glass would I be happy? Of course I would, but I'm happier that I did choose to go the Nikon route there's just something magical every time I hold that D850 in my hands with superb glass on the front.

I haven't bought any Nikon flashes yet, so I can't comment on that front.

In a nutshell, photographically it's impossible to go wrong with either brand.


Cheers,
Bear Dale

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albemarledesigner
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Dec 24, 2017 17:02 |  #228

I'm of the opinion that I use whatever the best piece of equipment for the job happens to be. That being said, I'm pretty brand agnostic. I have Canon, Nikon, and Fuji products. So, when I shoot video, I tend to use the Canon products...stills I use Nikon....when I'm doing street photography or something of that nature where I need my gear to be lightweight and easily portable, I use Fuji. It's not what you shoot with that counts, it's what's between your ears. All a camera & lens is glass and electronic components; it has no concept of composition or posing or anything that makes an image remarkable. They're just tools. But, in the situation you described, I would go with the D850.




  
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Tom ­ Reichner
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Dec 24, 2017 17:37 |  #229

fotoworx wrote in post #18525627 (external link)
. . . came out and someone had put a brick through the window of our SUV and taken all the gear.

Luckily all the gear was insured.

The Nikon D850 was announced and I thought, here's my chance to finally give Nikon a go after all these years of a massive Canon investment.

Thanks for telling the story behind your conversion.

If the same thing happened to me, I would have to go with Canon again.

Why? . Because the Nikon gear I need would be so much more expensive than the Canon equivalents, and the check I got would not be enough to replace my Canon gear with Nikon.

Remember, what it's really all about is the lenses, and the camera body doesn't really matter all that much.

You see, the vast majority of my gear consists of supertelephoto lenses, and when you get to the very long, fast primes such as 500mm, 600mm, and 800mm, Nikon just charges more money than Canon does, for the same focal length and aperture. . And there aren't as many really long Nikon mount lenses on the used market, so the used prices are higher than the Canon equivalents because there is such a smaller supply. . So for me it wouldn't make sense to get a Nikon body, then have to skimp on glass for it, when I could go the Canon route and get the glass I need. . So I suppose that that is my answer to the question you asked in post #1.

So it has nothing to do with one brand being better than the other - it is just that with Canon, I can get more for my money. . And money is a primary concern. . Whether one is using one's hard-earned cash or using the funds from insurance check, makes no difference. . In either case, the buyer has a given amount of cash to work with, and must get as much quality gear as he/she possibly can for that amount.

I'd gladly switch to Nikon or Sony if either of those brands would give me more for my money ...... but they don't, so I won't.

But if all someone is using are "little" lenses like 100-400mm and 70-200mm zooms and stuff that's even smaller than that, then it would make sense to invest in Nikon gear, because the price differences between Canon and Nikon is negligible when it comes to the lenses that are only a couple of grand.


.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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Dec 24, 2017 20:21 |  #230

I guess I have one of the less noisy 5D4s. I look through my ISO 3200-6400 shots and just don't see anything that would put it twice as bad as the 1DX, especially when resized to match at 5184 on the long side.

This is ISO 4000 direct from raw, no NR, but it doesn't need any. I believe this is pretty equivalent as the exposure on the 1DX sample posted.


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Bear ­ Dale
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Dec 24, 2017 20:36 |  #231

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18525648 (external link)
T Whether one is using one's hard-earned cash or using the funds from insurance check, makes no difference.

Tom, still my hard earned cash. Just thankfully it was insured so that I got to re-spend it.

That cropping power of the D850 is something to behold.

One only lives once, and it was nice to be able to wander over to the dark side for a different experience.


Cheers,
Bear Dale

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George ­ Zip
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Dec 24, 2017 23:27 as a reply to  @ Bear Dale's post |  #232

Only at the end do you realize the power of the Dark Side.




  
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Dec 24, 2017 23:46 as a reply to  @ George Zip's post |  #233

Those D850s must be amazing, to be able to photograph the dark side.


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George ­ Zip
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Dec 25, 2017 01:34 |  #234

This thread is in danger of becoming Star Wars quotes :lol::-)




  
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Angmo
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Dec 25, 2017 12:06 |  #235

I’ve shot Nikon and Rolleiflex Medium Format for years. Lens quality matters. That’s why I shoot MF.

Between Canon and Nikon, Canon has an edge in their higher quality lines. Compared side to side you’d be hard pressed to notice a difference. Particularly off internet/social media sized jpegs.

The 850 is superb. Best all around beast this cycle. With that quality camera, many lenses will fall apart at that resolution. So you need to study what lens performs best. Even a good lens on the 810 can buckle under the pressures of an 850.

Will you see the difference? Not really. Not with internet quality jpegs

I don’t have an 850 yet. When I do, I’m likely not to shoot smaller than f5.6 with my old nikon glass. Will have to update to the 24-70E and other finer nikon glass. Then wow!


Nikons, Rolleiflexes, Elinchroms, Billinghams

  
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Dec 30, 2017 18:11 |  #236

:-P

Wow, that's putting all existing Canon users/owners squarely 'on-the-spot'!
(imagine not ever handling a pristine 'L' lens! - a wasted life if you ask me)

Independent reviews based on Performance Testing of both cameras give NIKON the accolade!
In a nutshell, the NIKON D850 'trounces' the 5D Mark IV
153 Auto-Focus points
Greater 'dynamic-range'
45.7MP
...
...
7-9FPS
(Yes, I am crying as I type this sad and awful truth --> :cry: :cry: :cry:

Any 'budding' pro-Tog coming out of University, people switching professions and seasoned amateurs wanting to invest in 'the-best-kit' - would probably choose NIKON based on these reviews.

For overall system-building, integration, lens lineup, accessories and Brand loyalty - CANON has no competitor! ---> oh look, I've cheered-up
:lol: :lol:


"... with a clear perspective - the confusion is clearer ..."
Body: Canon 5D-IV
Lenses: 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM, 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM
Flashguns: 580ex II x 4, MT24 macro flash
Accessories: Pkt Wiz TT5 x 4, AC3, MiniTT1, Sekonic L-758DR
Studio Lights: <... pending ...>

  
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Jan 01, 2018 16:40 |  #237

I'm curious about the D850 now myself. anyone know where I can go download some of their RAW files and see on my computer for myself?


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Angmo
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Jan 01, 2018 19:03 |  #238

Silver-Halide wrote in post #18531147 (external link)
I'm curious about the D850 now myself. anyone know where I can go download some of their RAW files and see on my computer for myself?

Check Nikons website.


Nikons, Rolleiflexes, Elinchroms, Billinghams

  
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Jan 01, 2018 19:42 |  #239

Compare and download here.
https://www.dpreview.c​om …6981&y=0.798811​4034646676 (external link)

Once they are equalized, the 5D4 and D850 look pretty close at high ISO There are download links to these files in the lower right corner under each camera sample.


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Jan 01, 2018 20:04 |  #240

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18531259 (external link)
Once they are equalized, the 5D4 and D850 look pretty close at high ISO

What do you mean by "equalized"?

When I go to the link you provided, and view the color swatch comparison that is right there on the page that pops up when I click on your link, the D850 image looks much, much worse than the 5D4 image.


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"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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