How would U choose a camera 4 your wife? (hsbnd)

mikeinctown wrote in post #18474887
who the heck comes up with the nonsense of a DSLR is too much to learn at once?

That was I, as you must have noticed, given that your post followed right after mine. A little more tact would have been appropriate. Maybe even a little more readiness to empathize with people at different stages of practice from your own.

The OP said his wife doesn't like complexity and isn't the techno sort. (Me too. I like complexity in some areas but not in learning curves for operating unfamiliar devices.) She's old enough not to have grown up in a gadget-filled world. (Me too.) If she's rarely or never used a camera, a compact or prosumer model would offer her a gentler start than one that requires choosing lenses to fit the shooting situation, properly carrying and storing an arsenal of removable parts, cleaning a sensor, studying recommendations written by people who don't define for beginners the terms they use.

I started with a pocket-size camera, 8 mp, because that's what they showed me at the store. When I outgrew it, I got a G15. I won't go further until the next step up on the "fancy features" scale becomes much smaller and lighter. Guys with big muscles may not give portability such a high priority.

As Mrs. OP learns more about photography, she'll have a better idea of what kind of equipment suits her needs.

I would look into some of Canon's point and shoot models, we have an SX530 HS at work with CDHK added for RAW functionality and that little camera can take great photos! It's what encouraged me to move up to a DSLR, but for someone looking for a small camera it's 24-1200mm 35mm equivalent focal length and the RAW files generated using CDHK are versatile up to ISO 1600 and sometimes even 3200! Remember you'll always get better photos from the small point and shoot you took with you for its portability than the big, heavy, expensive DSLR you left home because of its lack of portability.

-Joe

Bassat wrote in post #18474929
I tried processing some raws from the G15. Not worth the trouble.

Sorry, have to disagree. I use a G15 as my carry-around camera always with me in the car, always shoot RAW, and always find it worthwhile to convert and process the RAW files in LR.

I agree with shooting raw. Much better pics once I converted my wife to an S100 in P mode. Then I just go though an process them and transfer them to her laptop. Usually she in not shooting in the best light, so NR, highlight recovery and/or shadow recovery make the raw output so much better than the internal .jpeg engine.

I think a few people have said that the important thing about a camera for your wife, husband or A.N. Other Person is that it is a camera they like and will want to use. If you get the wrong one for that person, it will go unused and it won't matter what its capabilities as a camera are. I liked OhLook's second post on the subject, far more succinct than what I'm about to say ...

We're all here on a photography forum and can think of nothing better than using, maintaining and charging our cameras; putting the card in the card reader, downloading the shots and processing the RAW files. There's a whole lot of people who don't have these inclinations.

SLRs are complicated things. Yes they have an automatic mode but they also have lenses, possibly multiple ones, that you need to know how to take off, put on and store - as well as which one to use. Among other complications which may seem trivial and basic to some but that's because we are interested parties who have taken the time to learn all about it. For people who aren't as interested, yet, those could be obstacles to them becoming interested.

In contrast, a well-equipped point and shoot is probably a good fit. Many of them can produce RAW files for when the person gets more interested in that aspect ... or just produce JPEGs if they decide not to. Many of them have the possibility of manual or semi-manual control should that become important to our new photographer. They generally have more zooming capacity available in a smaller, lighter and more complex way. For someone new to photography, again, the appeal of carrying around a lot of equipment and weight may not (yet) fill their heart with glee. They might find it daunting and a barrier to going out and shooting. A camera you can slip in a pocket or something is more likely to leave the house with them. It's important to keep in mind the person we are buying for, that person is a different person to each of us with different needs and desires.

Another thing that I think is important is encouraging, but not pressuring, them to shoot. Teach them how to use it, and not just at the beginning but offer advice or to show them what you're doing when you're shooting, and if you notice anything when looking at their images. Make them an active part of your photography excursions, trips or whatever. Ask if they're going to bring the camera that day ... and if not, then no worries. That said, it is important that they shoot what they see independently and develop their own vision. That's the point of them having a camera. I think it's also important to go through their images with them present - not take control of that but do it together if you're a wife/husband team, otherwise Photography remains something that is yours, and it's also unlikely they'll take an interest in it in future ... just because they don't now, doesn't meant they can't be interested in the digital processing side of things. There was probably a time when most of us weren't.

OhLook wrote in post #18475025
That was I, as you must have noticed, given that your post followed right after mine. A little more tact would have been appropriate. Maybe even a little more readiness to empathize with people at different stages of practice from your own.

The OP said his wife doesn't like complexity and isn't the techno sort. (Me too. I like complexity in some areas but not in learning curves for operating unfamiliar devices.) She's old enough not to have grown up in a gadget-filled world. (Me too.) If she's rarely or never used a camera, a compact or prosumer model would offer her a gentler start than one that requires choosing lenses to fit the shooting situation, properly carrying and storing an arsenal of removable parts, cleaning a sensor, studying recommendations written by people who don't define for beginners the terms they use.

I started with a pocket-size camera, 8 mp, because that's what they showed me at the store. When I outgrew it, I got a G15. I won't go further until the next step up on the "fancy features" scale becomes much smaller and lighter. Guys with big muscles may not give portability such a high priority.

As Mrs. OP learns more about photography, she'll have a better idea of what kind of equipment suits her needs.

Different stages of practice mean nothing when there is an auto function and it can shoot in JPEG, eliminating the entire RAW to JPEG conversion and whatnot. I've been shooting for whatever time it has been since I joined the forum. My first camera was a DSLR, a T3i. I used it in auto for a week, then went to one of the somewhat manual modes, then a month later to full auto. To imply that a DSLR is too much to learn when you have a mode that requires the same amount of learning as a point and shoot is beyond absurd.

Now if you wanted to phrase it as a DSLR may be a lot heavier or bulkier than she may want then I would be all on board with that, but you didn't.

BTW, to this day I still have never cleaned a sensor, and the kit lens was all I had for the first year or two, which eliminated that pesky concern about choosing the proper lens for the subject. You have the same limitations with a point and shoot. zero differences.

I have taught, many a person, the basics of how to shoot in fully manual mode in 20 minutes that have never used a DSLR camera before - and they can do it - it doesn't mean they are fast, it doesn't mean they don't have to think, and it doesn't mean they will fully remember it the next day - however, it is all very doable (see picture below of me teaching my 6 year old in 30 minutes last summer how to fully use a 1DXii in manual with bounce flash).

This is what I do

- F2.8, F4, F8 (1 person, 2 persons, everything in focus)
- 1/100, 1/200, 1/1000 (people posing, people moving, sports)
- single point focus, use joystick to put focus point on what you what to be in the most focus

However, given what the original post was about, a person married to another person, who owns two cameras themselves, and sounds like potentially on walks or other, may want to start trying to learn as well while out on these adventures together. Candidate doesn't use cellphone to take pictures etc.

My original IPhone 8 or Samsung Note 8 is a real suggestion - learn to take pictures, find out about filters (easy processing) and post a few to FB to her close friends or family while following her partner around - sounds like a good idea to me.

My second choice is buy a very modern, lighter, less bulky mirrorless camera, that produces excellent jpegs sooc, such as a Fuji X-T2 or other - (Sony 6500?), with their fast standard zoom 18-55 F2.8-F4 (or similar). The advantage here is that this can also make a nice travel camera for both people. Make the experience about producing good jpegs sooc, but it can do raw if desired.

My 3rd choice is the $300 used Rebel and kit lens just to start learning and then resell it in 12 months if this is really something of interest.

For me personally, I have found that having participated in many different activities in my life, that the buy cheaper used to start and or buy the prosumer equivalent immediately, has always worked out better because it is either a fling that will pass (generally never happens for me) or I want to do it and want the proper tool for the trade - i.e in this case, for the candidate mentioned, the $1200-$2000 modern Fuji or equivalent that can be used happily for years to come.

The one issue I have with older / cheaper introductory consumer type cameras is that the control dials are general NOT easy to use - in contrast, put a 5D4 in a beginners hands, and it is just so much easier to teach and use - this is the feedback I have gotten over, and over again, when I teach people - if the dial layout is good, they can and do come up to speed so much easier (and it is enjoyable), with a well laid out camera (easy to find and operate, Shutter (finger) , Aperture (thumb), ISO (thumb and finger) and Focus point selection (thumb) - all while their eye is looking in the optical viewer.

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/KWrw​bU

Personal opinion alert:

All the joy of photography is lost when using a cell phone. It's simply not the same thing. I actually feel the same way regarding point n shoots, but a stronger argument can be made for that.

DSLR's are pretty cheap (Canon Refurb) and they all have auto mode. And as others have said, you can do the image editing for her.

kmilo wrote in post #18475286
Personal opinion alert:

All the joy of photography is lost when using a cell phone. It's simply not the same thing. I actually feel the same way regarding point n shoots, but a stronger argument can be made for that.
....

That kind of depends on what your goal is. A camera is a tool. Some people fall in love with the tool, some with the process, others with the result. Think of it like carpentry, another activity that requires some level of skill. Some are enamored with the tools they use and can talk endlessly about why one hammer is better than another while others are interested in the build process and others about the final product.

Owain Shaw wrote in post #18475179
I liked OhLook's second post on the subject, far more succinct than what I'm about to say ...

We're all here on a photography forum and can think of nothing better than using, maintaining and charging our cameras; putting the card in the card reader, downloading the shots and processing the RAW files.

Thank you, and I hope you're exaggerating about what we can all think of nothing better than. Far from being an equipment freak, I do the mechanical tasks as means to an end.

mikeinctown wrote in post #18475244
Different stages of practice mean nothing when there is an auto function and it can shoot in JPEG. . . . To imply that a DSLR is too much to learn when you have a mode that requires the same amount of learning as a point and shoot is beyond absurd.

Now if you wanted to phrase it as a DSLR may be a lot heavier or bulkier than she may want then I would be all on board with that, but you didn't.

I did make the point about weight and bulk. If you missed it, it's still there for your inspection. I haven't edited the post. Here's a related point: A smaller camera is easier to conceal. This may be a concern for women (and men) going out alone in urban areas.

If a user is going to shoot in Auto or P, what's the point of having a DSLR? You get a more unwieldy and more expensive camera in order to gain control over the way it records a scene. Why give that up by not using its flexibility?

You've called my opinions "nonsense" and then "beyond absurd." I'll have to speak more plainly: Don't do that. It's rude. Other posters in this thread illustrate civil ways of disagreeing.

wallstreetoneil wrote in post #18475270
The one issue I have with older / cheaper introductory consumer type cameras is that the control dials are general NOT easy to use

I wholeheartedly agree. With my old compact, I had to interrupt shooting and go to a menu to change too many things. The G15 has the most-used settings on the outside.

I started taking my wife with me on my birding outings. She loved the nature part of it. One spring, we went to the bird rookery in St Augustine. She was using my little G12. She had fun but was disappointed she wasn't able to caught much of the action.

Our anniversary is in June. That same year, I got her a little SL1, a used 15-85 and a 55-250STM. She immediately fell in love with it.

She doesn't like the technical part of a DSLR, so I often set the camera up with her when we're out birding. That said, she's retained enough of my instructions to take very good photographs of the various kitchens where her kitchen cabinets are installed.

So, my comment: if the person in question had bumped up against the limitations of their cell phone camera, it's isn't that much of a jump to a simple DSLR. As has been mentioned, with a few minutes instruction, they can get started. What my wife has that I lack is vision. She "sees" things differently that I do.... much better for getting photographs that have lasting meaning. I'm learning from her, though I don't have her innate talents. She's learning the technical stuff from me. We are both improving, though, if I give it much thought, I'd rather struggle with the technical side than the artistic.

After showing my wife some tinkering in Lightroom on JPGS from my old point and shoot years ago, plus RAW from current DSLR, she favored a camera with RAW

After showing her my DSLRs plus others at retail display, she said something like a Canon SX730 IS is too small to hold. And she wanted to ditch switching lenses. So that ruled-out something like T6i, T5i, etc., etc..

She migrated to the Canon SX60 HS and liked the size and how it felt to hold. So that's what she bought.

Thanks for the feedback.

OhLook wrote in post #18475349
Thank you, and I hope you're exaggerating about what we can all think of nothing better than. Far from being an equipment freak, I do the mechanical tasks as means to an end.

I was indeed exaggerating for effect. And likewise, I enjoy using my camera to take pictures ... I don't have any great enthusiasm for the rest of the tasks on the list, as I imagine would be the default position of most people new to photography.

Get her new iPhone. This will works most likely. I like iPhone photography for FB, it is ideal tool for it.
Worst thing you could do is to get her camera without asking her. Lets be honest, all you want is third camera.

Oops, too late.

I pretty much just went through this process. My wife asked if I could start showing her how to use the camera, of course I got excited. I also wanted to start paring down my equipment. Best bet is to realize what you both want if you are sharing the same camera.

I wanted to retain Full Frame. Speed was not a huge concern..1DmkIII was a bit overkill without shooting sports. Better Dynamic Range over 5D.

My wife wanted video capability. A lighter lens than the 24-70. She liked the size of the Rebel Line.

And the 6D with 24-105 was the easy winner. It hit all the marks on the list. I am still getting use to the smaller size, but I may get the grip for myself. I still need to truly spend time with it, but first impressions are positive.