Most Ergonomic Camera Brand (full size) ??

mike_d wrote in post #18475768
One thing I don't like about Fuji is how they handle variable aperture lenses (unmarked ring). I liked being able to look down see/adjust everything even without power on a prime lens, but that wasn't possible with a variable aperture lens and I found it a bit annoying.

You can look down on a Canon 135mm f/2 lens when it is not mounted on a powered-on Canon body, and adjust its selected aperture???

mike_d wrote in post #18475768
One thing I don't like about Fuji is how they handle variable aperture lenses (unmarked ring). I liked being able to look down see/adjust everything even without power on a prime lens, but that wasn't possible with a variable aperture lens and I found it a bit annoying.

True, and it annoys me too... but only 2 of the lenses I own are variable aperture and I don't use them nearly as much as my primes. Also, what you're describing isn't possible at all on any EF lens

Wilt wrote in post #18475769
You can look down on a Canon 135mm f/2 lens when it is not mounted on a powered-on Canon body, and adjust its selected aperture???

I thought the same thing

Wilt wrote in post #18475769
You can look down on a Canon 135mm f/2 lens when it is not mounted on a powered-on Canon body, and adjust its selected aperture???

I don't recall mentioning Canon in that post.

mike_d wrote in post #18475782
I don't recall mentioning Canon in that post.

But you stated, "One thing I don't like about Fuji is how they handle variable aperture lenses (unmarked ring). I liked being able to look down see/adjust everything even without power on a prime lens..." as if it was FUJI's crappy design which prevented that action. I merely let you know that, by your standards of critique, Canon was an equally crappy design, too.

mdvaden wrote in post #18475145
The question here is not to my wife. It's to other photographers. I wasn't even thinking of relaying the poll results to her. This has zero to do with her camera purchase. I'm just wondering what other photographers find more comfortable to hold and use.

Right but my point was that everyone is different - so what is ergonomically best for me, your wife, my friend, may not be for you, your brother or the guy at work.

A poll like this is meaningless because everyone is voting for different reasons. One guy may vote for Canon because he likes the grip and the button arrangement, while someone else votes for Canon because they like the weight/build quality. At the end of the day the fact that ten people like Nikon (for 8 different reasons) doesn't mean that you or I will like the ergonomics of Nikon cameras. There is no "best", there is only what is best for each individual person.

i've only held sony's in a store before...i felt they were too small...but i also feel like my 70D isn't as nice to hold as my old 40D or 5Dc are...it's just a little to thin, so my fingers kinda buckle up against it...but with the sony's i can only fit three fingers on the grip, so my pinky ends up going underneath, which reminds me of my old canon S2IS...i'm sure i could adapt to anything though...but i prefer a bigger camera, since it's usually the smaller part of what i'm shooting

Wilt wrote in post #18475785
But you stated, "One thing I don't like about Fuji is how they handle variable aperture lenses (unmarked ring). I liked being able to look down see/adjust everything even without power on a prime lens..." as if it was FUJI's crappy design which prevented that action. I merely let you know that, by your standards of critique, Canon was an equally crappy design, too.

But part of Fuji's appeal is the tactile controls. Having an unmarked ring that requires looking at a screen to adjust that parameter takes away from that. I think they could have found a better way to do it while keeping with their overall design philosophy.

mike_d wrote in post #18475973
But part of Fuji's appeal is the tactile controls. Having an unmarked ring that requires looking at a screen to adjust that parameter takes away from that. I think they could have found a better way to do it while keeping with their overall design philosophy.

I guess you simply did not sufficiently articulate exactly WHAT about Fuli was so crappy. More than one of us thought the gripe was that, "I liked being able to look down see/adjust everything even without power on a prime lens", and you cannot do that with a Canon lens -- neither variable aperture nor fixed aperture -- either!

Bassat wrote in post #18475763
I knew that. I thought it was obvious that mine was, too. A bit puzzled at your post.

I was in a hurry and completely missed the last part of the post in question. No wonder your were puzzled. My mistake.

I had to go back and read it to see what you meant... duh... didn't finish reading the post.

I don't mind too much on brand, I picked Canon because I could afford a 300D kit that Jessops were doing here in the UK: body, grip a couple of batteries and 18-55 USM kit lens. With the grip it was a nice comfortable handful. But so was the equivalent Nikon and Pentax. Having shot Pentax film cameras I might have gone with them, but in the end came down to price. I could afford the 300D, with enough left over for a tele zoom, the dreaded 75-300 USM III, a tripod, bag and a 1GB CF card. All in at £1000, IIRC none of the other bodies made it below that price, so the 300D had a big advantage.

I have to say that now I do have an ergonomics preference and that is for the bodies with the joystick style interface. I remember when looking to upgrade from my 300D when the 60D first came out and going into a store to look at it and the 7D. I found the 7D to be incredibly intuitive and obvious how to operate the various functions. The 60D on the other hand seemed like a forced kludge of the XD and XXXD interfaces, offering the worst of each. I didn't end up with a 7D but did get in turn a 20D and 50D. I also really dislike SD cards, since I only seem to need to touch the contacts to kill one. Apart from a duff from new card I have, touch wood, never had a CF card fail. I still use that original 1 GB Jessops brand card that came with the 300D in my 20D if I need a second camera. I also tend to use the PC socket quite a bit in situations where I am working with my studio flash kit in an industrial unit with a huge amount of RFI that makes the RF triggers unreliable.

I also have one other requirement for any camera, and that is that it has an OVF. I know EVFs have made great improvements, but I still just really prefer an OVF, especially in a larger camera such as a DSLR, as I often shoot fast moving subjects with very long focal length lenses. Having had a play with one at a show I do have a preference for a smaller body too, but it could only ever be a second system for me, since 135mm is at least 465mm too short. I doubt I'll ever afford one but a Leica M Monochrom with 35, 50 and 90mm lenses would be rather nice. Or maybe a little more realistically the Fuji with the hybrid OVF/EVF system. But for a second system it's still way over my potential budget.

Alan

mike_d wrote in post #18475973
But part of Fuji's appeal is the tactile controls. Having an unmarked ring that requires looking at a screen to adjust that parameter takes away from that. I think they could have found a better way to do it while keeping with their overall design philosophy.

There are only 7 lenses that have the markings missing, the XC16-50 & 50-230, the XF18-55 & 55-200, the XF16-135, the XF10-24 and the XF100-400. I can only think that was done to keep things simple and the cost down. Can you imaging the complexity of showing a variable aperture in markings on the lens! When you consider there are another 20 lenses that have the markings on them we can forgive the few that don't and anyway you still have all the other rails on there to look at and fondle if you like.

Two Hot Shoes wrote in post #18476087
There are only 7 lenses that have the markings missing, the XC16-50 & 50-230, the XF18-55 & 55-200, the XF16-135, the XF10-24 and the XF100-400. I can only think that was done to keep things simple and the cost down. Can you imaging the complexity of showing a variable aperture in markings on the lens! When you consider there are another 20 lenses that have the markings on them we can forgive the few that don't and anyway you still have all the other rails on there to look at and fondle if you like.

I had the 35/1.4 first, then 18-55 f/2.8-4. I would have preferred the 18-55 have a marked ring and if I zoomed past its ability to open up to an indicated f/2.8, it would have to stop down and show that on the LCD. I know the 16-55 is a constant aperture option but it's so much bigger and heavier than it almost defeats the purpose of a small system. I would have been OK if the 18-55 were a constant f/4 with a marked ring.

The only problem I see there is if I visually set a lens to f/2.8 and then zoom it goes to f/4 so my settings are a stop out. The 10-24 is a constant f/4 but has no markings oddly enough. Yes the 16-55/2.8 is bigger [a lot] and heaver but you do get 55/2.8 and WR but no OIS [not that I think it needs it really]. It's a lens that I'll always be able to rely on to get the job done but I don't love it. The 18/2 I do though.

mike_d wrote in post #18476133
I had the 35/1.4 first, then 18-55 f/2.8-4. I would have preferred the 18-55 have a marked ring and if I zoomed past its ability to open up to an indicated f/2.8, it would have to stop down and show that on the LCD. I know the 16-55 is a constant aperture option but it's so much bigger and heavier than it almost defeats the purpose of a small system. I would have been OK if the 18-55 were a constant f/4 with a marked ring.

So why not just stop the lens down to f/4 at 18mm? Then it stays at f/4 for the entire range.

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #18476243
So why not just stop the lens down to f/4 at 18mm? Then it stays at f/4 for the entire range.

I've made similar comments about variable aperture lens. It's only variable aperture if you want to shoot it wide open at shorter FL. Stop down to f/5.6 (or smaller) and you get a fixed aperture lens, and better IQ. Win-win. Need aperture, buy a prime. Works for me.