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Thread started 20 Oct 2017 (Friday) 10:00
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So if we are done with LR, whats our choices?

 
WiscTim
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Mar 09, 2018 09:28 |  #376

Mathmans wrote in post #18580951 (external link)
....
This is not a critique; it's just my curiosity.
Yesterday I was wondering why I don't like Capture One despite all those ravings on the net how it renders perfect skin tones and how natural C1 colors look.
It seems that's not the case with my Nikon camera and also it's not the case with some other cameras.
....
If I open the same file in my other RAW software there is no problem, but Capture One gives me over saturated reddish and orange tint. It recognises my camera and my lenses and changes color profile for my camera but….
It seems Capture One color profile for certain cameras does not represent those cameras as it should. On the other hand, those Phase One cameras owners seems to have no problems with colors. I wonder why.
...
I just wonder if there is a better solution with Capture One 11 rather then spending afternoon fiddling with color sliders and I don't know what else and saving custom profiles.
Something like: cange to sRGB (I have) or go to settings and unclick this setting …. etc

I found the same issue with Capture One 11. On the wildlife and landscape images I shoot with my Canon 7D, the default 7D profile emphasizes browns and oranges. On some images this works, but for others such as snowy landscapes it can look "dirty".

I tried changing the ICC profiles to different Canon models and found that using the Canon 7DII version 2 profile and pulling down the saturation slightly gives me a look that I like. I set this as the default profile for my Canon 7D. I also found I could use the sRGB profile if I increased the saturation to around 90. For my Canon SL1 I use the default 100D (SL1) profile.

In fairness, I also do not like the default Lightroom profile, although Lightroom's alternatives are more clear. The default Adobe Standard profile seems to blow out magentas and deep reds. I use the Camera Neutral profile as my default and sometimes switch to Camera Faithful if it gives a more pleasing look.




  
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jcothron
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Mar 09, 2018 09:55 |  #377

WiscTim wrote in post #18581050 (external link)
I use the Camera Neutral profile as my default and sometimes switch to Camera Faithful if it gives a more pleasing look.

Same here, I find it does the best job.


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mwsilver
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Post edited 3 months ago by mwsilver.
     
Mar 09, 2018 10:45 |  #378

Mathmans wrote in post #18580951 (external link)
Seems like I/we discovered a solution for to much sensitive DxO sliders.
Now the developers should find a solution for interaction between Selective Tone sliders and just a little better highlights recovery and perhaps they could also add highlights reconstruction like LR has ( ;-)a ).

Here I have another one from my ''nagging bag''…
This is not a critique; it's just my curiosity.
Yesterday I was wondering why I don't like Capture One despite all those ravings on the net how it renders perfect skin tones and how natural C1 colors look.
It seems that's not the case with my Nikon camera and also it's not the case with some other cameras.
I have found a lot complaints on Google about red and orange tint Capture One generates with files from certain cameras. I've spet a few hours looking for a solution on the net but all those threads and debates ends with no solution or with advice to manually adjust ICC profile and save it as default.
Search words:
capture one color problem , capture one red tint , capture one oversaturated …etc

If I open the same file in my other RAW software there is no problem, but Capture One gives me over saturated reddish and orange tint. It recognises my camera and my lenses and changes color profile for my camera but….
It seems Capture One color profile for certain cameras does not represent those cameras as it should. On the other hand, those Phase One cameras owners seems to have no problems with colors. I wonder why.

If the only solution to this problem is buying a Phase One camera or fiddling with color settings till I get the look to my leaking I would say – don't bother. I don't need to do all this in other software I have at the moment and I certainly won't do the work the developers should do.
This is no disaster or desperate cry for help because I don't use Capture One much. It's just my curiosity and a wish to learn new things.

I just wonder if there is a better solution with Capture One 11 rather then spending afternoon fiddling with color sliders and I don't know what else and saving custom profiles.
Something like: cange to sRGB (I have) or go to settings and unclick this setting …. etc

I had also noted either here are or elsewhere else that Capture One tended to oversaturate. It's a excellent, albeit expensive, option, but there are also aspects of the tools and interface that I personally find uncomfortable in use. I suppose over time I could get used to it, but not for $300.


Mark
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digital ­ paradise
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Mar 09, 2018 10:48 |  #379

mwsilver wrote in post #18581116 (external link)
I had also noted either here are or elsewhere else that Capture One tended to oversaturate. It's a excellent, albeit expensive, option, but there are also aspects of the tools and interface that I personally find uncomfortable in use. I suppose over time I could get used to it, but not for $300.

Yeah I may have gone for it at $150. Also I have read from several sources it is becoming an annual upgrade. About a 14 month cycle. I also find at extreme crops detail is coarser than LR.


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mwsilver
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Mar 09, 2018 11:29 |  #380

digital paradise wrote in post #18581118 (external link)
Yeah I may have gone for it at $150. Also I have read from several sources it is becoming an annual upgrade. About a 14 month cycle. I also find at extreme crops detail is coarser than LR.

With regard to your extreme crop findings, I noticed that when viewing the same raw file in both DXO Photolab and Capture One Pro 11 at 400% the Capture One Pro images look blotchier with poorer definition than in PhotoLab. Of course, at 400% nothing looks great, but the Capture One images looked consistently and noticeably worse to my eyes. And it usually wasn't subtle.The degree of difference did seem to vary somewhat from photograph to photograph, but was especially obvious when viewing leafy trees.


Mark
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WiscTim
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Mar 09, 2018 13:25 |  #381

mwsilver wrote in post #18581116 (external link)
... It's a excellent, albeit expensive, option, but there are also aspects of the tools and interface that I personally find uncomfortable in use. I suppose over time I could get used to it, but not for $300.

digital paradise wrote in post #18581118 (external link)
Yeah I may have gone for it at $150. Also I have read from several sources it is becoming an annual upgrade. About a 14 month cycle. I also find at extreme crops detail is coarser than LR.

I have switched to Capture One for my photos this year. I am a hobbyist and like a processor with a DAM that allows me to search and review previously processed photos in their completed form. I don't use Photoshop and only upgraded Lightroom every other version (I use ver. 6), so while the upfront cost for Capture One is higher it will be cheaper after 2-3 years. You can search the web for videos by C1 "ambassadors" that also offer coupon codes for a 10% discount, and that helps somewhat.

I have been frustrated with Lightroom's slowness despite using available speed tips. I also like Capture One's flexibility of setting up the workspace and the capability of putting multiple photos side-by-side and making changes without having to change modules. I also like how Capture One uses masks for making adjustments over Lightroom's local adjustment brush.

digital paradise wrote in post #18581118 (external link)
...
I also find at extreme crops detail is coarser than LR.

For certain items I have found the opposite, especially with regards to noise and cropping. For example, with high ISO images of birds I can use Capture One's structure slider and get relatively pleasing feather definition, where with Lightroom it tends toward random noise or plasticky smoothness. However, I have not yet found a way in Capture One to get backgrounds as creamy as Lightroom produces with its noise reduction slider.




  
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Mar 09, 2018 23:11 |  #382

I worked with all C1 had to offer including the structure slider. I have said before I really wanted C1 to blow my socks off but for $300 it didn't. I was not keen on the subscription approach but we choose what works best for us.

As for sharpening (and structure) I found C1 similar to Canon's DPP. Very aggressive which is not a bad thing. Just have to be careful controlling it.

I have to say C1 export speed surprised me. Instant. We just got home from a trip and today I finally got around to downloading LR 7.2. I clocked export at about 4 seconds which is an improvement but not that important to me.

I know there have been a lot of complaints about LR's editing speeds. I just tried out the gradient and brush panels. While not blazing fast I never found it terrible from a hobbyists perspective before 7.2. So far 7.2 is showing a good improvement.

All good software and one has to find what works best for your needs.


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Mathmans
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Mar 10, 2018 06:34 as a reply to  @ digital paradise's post |  #383

I was just playing again with those camera profiles in Capture One and not a single Nikon profile can match the colors I get in DxO.
There are some Canon profiles that work better. What an irony. Should I switch to Canon?
If I draw a line, there’s nothing in Capture One that would blow me away, if I compare it to other software I have. It’s not bad at all, but I agree - it doesn’t worth $300. More like $120 for my standards.
Still, I must confess I like some tools in C1. I like Levels for example.




  
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Mar 10, 2018 08:37 |  #384

digital paradise wrote in post #18581493 (external link)
I worked with all C1 had to offer including the structure slider. I have said before I really wanted C1 to blow my socks off but for $300 it didn't. I was not keen on the subscription approach but we choose what works best for us.

As for sharpening (and structure) I found C1 similar to Canon's DPP. Very aggressive which is not a bad thing. Just have to be careful controlling it.

I have to say C1 export speed surprised me. Instant. We just got home from a trip and today I finally got around to downloading LR 7.2. I clocked export at about 4 seconds which is an improvement but not that important to me.

I know there have been a lot of complaints about LR's editing speeds. I just tried out the gradient and brush panels. While not blazing fast I never found it terrible from a hobbyists perspective before 7.2. So far 7.2 is showing a good improvement.

All good software and one has to find what works best for your needs.

7.2 is a major speed upgrade for me. No more slow down when using the brush etc. I can make it slow down but it's after hours of work. Much better than before.


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Mar 10, 2018 09:45 |  #385

Mathmans wrote in post #18581655 (external link)
I was just playing again with those camera profiles in Capture One and not a single Nikon profile can match the colors I get in DxO.
There are some Canon profiles that work better. What an irony. Should I switch to Canon?
If I draw a line, there’s nothing in Capture One that would blow me away, if I compare it to other software I have. It’s not bad at all, but I agree - it doesn’t worth $300. More like $120 for my standards.
Still, I must confess I like some tools in C1. I like Levels for example.

I may be in C1 or DXO territory again one day if Adobe does something like melds CC and Classic requiring cloud storage with a desktop app. That is my red line. I want that to be my choice.


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Mar 10, 2018 10:07 |  #386

digital paradise wrote in post #18581784 (external link)
I may be in C1 or DXO territory again one day if Adobe does something like melds CC and Classic requiring cloud storage with a desktop app. That is my red line. I want that to be my choice.

I can't see LR requiring cloud storage ever. If they did that, how would that work for an event photographer who shoots 3000 pics a day?


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Mar 10, 2018 13:00 |  #387

Archibald wrote in post #18581804 (external link)
I can't see LR requiring cloud storage ever. If they did that, how would that work for an event photographer who shoots 3000 pics a day?

No doubt! Can you say "bottleneck"?


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Mar 10, 2018 13:06 |  #388

BTW, this thread is starting to border on epic*. I really like how the thread is beginning to evolve into a nitty-gritty analysis of key issues with the various LR alternatives. I have some serious thinking to do on how to evolve my post process, (finally upgrading from a lot of older software and preparing to join the 21st century :rolleyes: ) and this thread is actually becoming a bit of a reference source for me. Nary a post goes by here that doesn't give me more food for thought. Hope it keeps going strong.


* Maybe even sticky-epic ;-)a


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digital ­ paradise
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Mar 10, 2018 13:10 |  #389

Archibald wrote in post #18581804 (external link)
I can't see LR requiring cloud storage ever. If they did that, how would that work for an event photographer who shoots 3000 pics a day?

I agree which was another reason I decided to stay with Adobe. Not worried about the future. However the trolls on other sites where out in full force on that one.


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So if we are done with LR, whats our choices?
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