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Thread started 29 Oct 2017 (Sunday) 17:19
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Why doesn't canon make a EF compatible mirrorless camera?

 
aezoss
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Oct 30, 2017 00:24 |  #16

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18484346 (external link)
Conversely, the so-called "silent" mode on my 1D Mark 4 is ridiculously loud. . Oh, yeah, sure, it's quieter than when shooting in regular mode, but still it's way too loud for a lot of the things I want to do with my camera. . Plus, when shooting in "silent" mode, it can only do one shot at a time, which is nearly useless for my purposes.

Being able to shoot machine-gun style with no camera noise would help me get photos that I cannot get with my DSLR.

.

The 5D3 has 3fps silent continuous. 7D2, 4fps. 7D2 silent shutter is slightly softer than 6D. Both are noticeably quieter than the 5D3.

I assume the 5D4 is close to the 7D2 wrt shutter noise and maybe an fps or two faster than the 5D3. Not sure how the 1DX or 1DX2 compare.

If you're looking at the A9's 20fps, perhaps shooting 4k video and extracting frames might fit your needs. 8k video, if/when it becomes available in ILCs, could be very interesting in that regard.

Cinephotography example:
https://alphauniverse.​com …ing-stills-from-4k-video/ (external link)

Lee




  
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BigAl007
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Oct 30, 2017 00:47 |  #17

Tom by default any mirrorless design will require that you use a screen or EVF, and so using LV on one of the modern Dual Pixel sensors should produce operational sound levels that are comparable with any mirrorless system body. Most of the noise, and vibration is from the mirror moving up and down, I don't think I have ever really noticed the actual shutter tripping when using my 50D in LV mode. Of course you need a Dual Pixel sensor to make LV AF even close to the speed of PDAF when using the OVF. So if you want a body that uses the EF mount without adaption then it seems you are already pretty close with a Canon DP sensor in a DSLR. As I said I think I would then just push the LV signal to a larger screen to make viewing much easier, especially if you are using a tripod anyway.

A 5DIV with a 10" external LV display panel, should I would think give you optimum performance compared to any of the available mirrorless systems, and has the advantage of retaining the mirror and direct viewing OVF should you find that you really can't live with the use of electronic viewing systems. Although reverting to the OVF get you back to the objectionable mirror noise.

Alan


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blue9
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Oct 30, 2017 04:45 |  #18

davesrose wrote in post #18484328 (external link)
Mirrorless may not be completely silent either (they also can have a shutter noise). IMO, shutter noise is relative. I know apart from AF, one of the first things I noticed from upgrading to old MF SLRs/5Dc to the 5D3 was how quiet the silent modes are (you don't have to have any click noises in LV, and the silent shutter seemed amazingly quiet compared to what I was used to).

I also have a Lumix G7 and i can turn of the curtain shutter and use an electronic shutter, it works great up to 1/1000 sec. It's completely silent. Great for street photography and animals.




  
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MalVeauX
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Nov 05, 2017 12:30 |  #19

I can absolutely feel the difference with a silent or near silent shutter system compared to my dSLR. My 5D mirror slap is so obvious everyone knows when I've taken an image, and if my 1D fires of 10 FPS in a burst, it's quite obvious. But when I'm using my Fuji mirrorless, I can be within 2 feet and you can't hear it. I've been a lot of situations and still experience this where the shutter sound interference with the image capture process because the subject becomes painfully aware that I'm there and doing something, be it a bird at close range, or a bug at close range, or a person at close range.

Just a few weeks ago I was aggervated with a particular moth on a flower I was macro imaging because my shutter was disturbing it at 8~10 inches away and would disrupt what it was doing and cause it to stress and fly a bit and I'd have to move and follow it again. When I use my mirrorless, I can take images and literally can't be heard and nothing is disrupted from the noise. The difference is such an experience, quite eye opening. Same thing with birds, where I've lost lots of chances with a few spooky King Fishers that heard my shutter one time and took off never to come back. Annoying.

Mean while, even more obvious for me, is when I'm shooting my 5D with a 35mm or my Fuji at 35mm and how my 5D is so loud and I'm very close to the subject(s) and it's obvious I'm taking photos and they can hear my mirror slapping around so it takes away that candid or natural look that I'm capturing (especially when I'm doing family photojournalism or shooting in public at close distances, which I really prefer to be close). When I added my mirrorless with the 35mm FOV, it's now dead silent, and I can be in their face with it and they can't tell I've taken a few images. And I really like that, because it doesn't disrupt the moment and I get the candid and sincere expressions I'm looking for, rather than breaking the moment and losing future moments because now everyone is very aware that there is a "camera taking pictures."

I would love a 1D with a silent shutter (a real silent shutter, not just a quieter mirror slap at the cost of FPS).

Very best,


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Rainyday
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Jun 05, 2018 18:18 |  #20

Just my .02:

I've been wondering about Canon and mirrorless too. Ever since Sony got into the game and proved that mirrorless could compete with the DSLR's, I've wondered "where is Canon"? And now, I'm seeing sales from some of the larger camera stores, seems like they are aggressively pushing Canons DSLR's, perhaps they don't want to be stuck with it when Canon FINALLY introduces a feasible mirrorless camera. Or Nikon does. I do think mirrorless is the trend of the future and I wish Canon would get something going with mirrorless.




  
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archfotos
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Jun 07, 2018 12:34 |  #21

Rainyday wrote in post #18639906 (external link)
... I do think mirrorless is the trend of the future and I wish Canon would get something going with mirrorless.

Maybe, what happens when Canon release a FF mirrorless that allows Eos lenses but is initially crippled so not to compete with either their current 5d or Cinema c-100? Seems like Canon just released a mirrorless that doesn't even compete with a two year old Sony.

Don't get me wrong I would love to see the next 5dsr as a mirrorless


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Jun 14, 2018 00:57 |  #22

archfotos wrote in post #18640895 (external link)
Maybe, what happens when Canon release a FF mirrorless that allows Eos lenses but is initially crippled so not to compete with either their current 5d or Cinema c-100? Seems like Canon just released a mirrorless that doesn't even compete with a two year old Sony.

Don't get me wrong I would love to see the next 5dsr as a mirrorless

That’s why I finally gave up and bought a Sony A7III. I’m adapting most of my Canon lenses at the moment, and only buying E-mount glass that I really need until Canon announces something. From what I hear from all of the rumor sites, it’ll be in the next 12 months or so. I’ve already sold my 5D3 and some Canon flash gear/accessories, but if the FF mirrorless from Canon is as lackluster as I’m expecting it to be... then the rest of my Canon gear will be gone and I’ll be all in with Sony.


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Jun 14, 2018 11:36 as a reply to  @ Lyndön's post |  #23

Ballen Photo wrote in post #18554738 (external link)
Haha! I've now heard about that from multiple sources. Seriously though, not a laughing matter.

I've heard speculation that Canon will announce something at Photokina next October but I'm not holding my breath. I sold my Canon gear, bought a Fujifilm X-T2 and love it. However, I am watching Sony very closely and will probably pull the trigger on a Sony system next year. The 7III is amazing, and imo, has better focusing than my Fujifilm. I'm not willing to wait for Canon to play catchup when Sony seems to do the mirrorless system so much better.




  
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Jun 14, 2018 11:50 |  #24

Rainyday wrote in post #18645241 (external link)
I've heard speculation that Canon will announce something at Photokina next October but I'm not holding my breath...

I'm thinking that the mirrorless train left the station and Canon and Nokia missed it. If they do come out with something it is going to have to be spectacular to get people to move back.


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Jun 14, 2018 16:36 |  #25

Using a Canon DSLR in live view mode with the latest DPAF and STM lenses gives you the same basic operation as a mirrorless, no shutter sounds and decent bursts.

So occasionally when I want truly silent shooting, I will use live view. Not a fan on using a screen for the shot thus why I will need a good EVF on a future mirrorless when I get one.


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Jun 25, 2018 13:44 as a reply to  @ post 18484172 |  #26

As someone who has made the switch to Sony bodies but uses L glass on them via metabones.... I have to wonder what you are talking about? Heat? what? Im sorry... Sony has its own color thing going on, but to say Sony has image quality issues because of heat is a new one on me. And I have zero issues with black out, no more than the mechanical shutter box on the Canon provides..... There are lots of reasons to not shoot with Sony..... but those are first on me.

As to the idea that using live view is the same as using an EVF.... the experience isn't even close. Two points... 1) regardless of the back screen on any camera, they all are difficult to see in bright sun light. I shot a noon wedding at the coast on the beach two weeks ago. I was working as a second shooter who was working with a 5D and a 1D. I had no issue seeing exactly what my exposure was in real time... no new surprises. Which brings me to point 2. Shooting with a mirrorless you always see exactly what your exposure will be. I was a skeptic of this in the beginning, but once I relearned how to use these, I know the instant I press the shutter what the results will be. Never a surprise. That with focus peaking.... I take far fewer images to get what I need.


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Jul 04, 2018 10:46 as a reply to  @ post 18484314 |  #27

Sony's can be completely silent. I'm not sure where this notion that in silent mode that these cameras make noise unless you can hear the electrons turn on and off using the electronic shutter. There are some lighting issues with the e-shutter, but thats a different topic. The sony A cameras make no noise what so ever - none at all. During things like weddings I am able to get inches away from other people without them having a clue I am there shooting.


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Jul 08, 2018 10:22 |  #28

Cannot wait for the new canon full frame mirrorless bodies to be announced. My wishlist:

Canon clog, 4K 60p, silent shooting at 20fps, and massive battery life!




  
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Jul 08, 2018 22:44 |  #29

Physics! and I hope Canon make two variants of the mirrorless full frame.

a) light weight, small size, portable like the Sony body
b) same size, dSLR like ergonomically design with grip (similar to Fuji's X-H1)


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Jul 09, 2018 16:40 |  #30

Croasdail wrote in post #18656211 (external link)
Sony's can be completely silent. I'm not sure where this notion that in silent mode that these cameras make noise unless you can hear the electrons turn on and off using the electronic shutter. The sony A cameras make no noise what so ever - none at all. During things like weddings I am able to get inches away from other people without them having a clue I am there shooting.

Absolutely correct.

If someone says that Sony A cameras still make a little bit of shutter noise, they are completely and utterly wrong. . I have no idea why people say these things.

If a lens makes noise when it focuses, then that is completely different than a camera making noise. . Maybe people hear a little lens noise and foolishly confuse it with camera noise???


.


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Why doesn't canon make a EF compatible mirrorless camera?
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