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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Sports Talk 
Thread started 04 Dec 2017 (Monday) 21:17
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Basketball focus technique

 
MizzouMan_2000
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Jan 24, 2018 22:25 |  #16

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heat00
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Jan 25, 2018 11:50 as a reply to  @ post 18548408 |  #17

and what are you thoughts on the 2, comparison wise for basketball?




  
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Post edited over 1 year ago by TeamSpeed. (3 edits in all)
     
Jan 25, 2018 12:04 |  #18

on da move wrote in post #18516977 (external link)
Is it fair to say when shooting above ISO 10000, noise reduction software is need in most circumstances? Regardless, 5DM3 handles noise better than the 7DM2?

The 5D3 handles noise better than the 7D2, however I feel the 7D2 AF is better.

So you have to ask yourself whether you want shots in focus that are noisy, or potentially have shots not in focus but are cleaner.

Personally I will take ISO 6400/12800 noisier shots then cleaner motion-blurred or AF-blurred images.

The 5D3 does well with basketball though, however I find the 7D2 and 5D4 "crisper" at its AF and the lock-on of action.

When I had the 5D3, the lighting was still the old gas lighting in this venue, since then, they have moved to LED lighting. Here is ISO 20000 and 1/2000th, and ISO 10000 and 1/1600th from the 5D3 in that old lighting of the same sport. You can tell the quality of the lighting is much less than my other posted images. The color is off due to the color casts of the lights.

IMAGE: https://photos.smugmug.com/Sports-Events/Mad-Ants-2014-2015/i-GzvbjXW/0/4d24b604/XL/5P1B2419-XL.jpg

IMAGE: https://photos.smugmug.com/Sports-Events/Mad-Ants-2014-2015/i-gr5Hpwk/0/52462e9e/XL/5P1B3462-XL.jpg

With better lighting and a better camera like the 5D4 (and more experience than 3-4 years ago) I get results like this consistently. The 5D4 is a work horse, the only deficiency is the 7fps.

IMAGE: https://photos.smugmug.com/Sports-Events/Mad-Ants-Current-Season/Jan-19-2018/i-PDWWpN7/0/afc6f8c7/X2/FX8A7169a-X2.jpg

IMAGE: https://photos.smugmug.com/Sports-Events/Mad-Ants-Current-Season/Jan-19-2018/i-Mtxqskg/0/13793946/X3/FX8A7207a-X3.jpg

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heat00
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Jan 25, 2018 12:33 |  #19

Wow, the 5d4 looks like an animal... and of course your skills have a lot to do with it.

You make a great point above about 7dII vs 5dIII in having more focused shots and clean up later I suppose.... no shot is any good if blurry, certainly I've learned that many times lol....




  
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MizzouMan_2000
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Jan 25, 2018 21:07 as a reply to  @ heat00's post |  #20

I can't compare. When I had the 7D2, I got to try it out for a little baseball and that was it.

One thing I can say, though, after taking my old 7D1 with New to a basketball game last weekend is that the crop sensor body work the 70-200 f2.8L is too tight for where I tend to set up in my local high school's gym. Full frame with the 70-200 works well.



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MizzouMan_2000
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Jan 25, 2018 21:12 |  #21

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18548677 (external link)
The 5D3 handles noise better than the 7D2, however I feel the 7D2 AF is better.

So you have to ask yourself whether you want shots in focus that are noisy, or potentially have shots not in focus but are cleaner.

Personally I will take ISO 6400/12800 noisier shots then cleaner motion-blurred or AF-blurred images.

The 5D3 does well with basketball though, however I find the 7D2 and 5D4 "crisper" at its AF and the lock-on of action.

When I had the 5D3, the lighting was still the old gas lighting in this venue, since then, they have moved to LED lighting. Here is ISO 20000 and 1/2000th, and ISO 10000 and 1/1600th from the 5D3 in that old lighting of the same sport. You can tell the quality of the lighting is much less than my other posted images. The color is off due to the color casts of the lights.

QUOTED IMAGE
QUOTED IMAGE

With better lighting and a better camera like the 5D4 (and more experience than 3-4 years ago) I get results like this consistently. The 5D4 is a work horse, the only deficiency is the 7fps.

QUOTED IMAGE
QUOTED IMAGE

The high school in town upgraded to LED lights over the summer. It made a huge difference! I took my 5D3 to a game or 2 before they upgraded and I hated it. I'd spend so much time trying to correct the constantly changing color temperatures and exposures. I wouldn't bother going to anymore with those old lights.

I've been to more basketball games this year than probably the last 3 or 4 combined.

The worst thing now is just that the ends of the court are darker. I probably have to bump up exposure by 2/3 to 1 stop in Lightroom when there's action on the baseline. I shoot manual, so I just fix it in post.



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TeamSpeed
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Jan 25, 2018 21:36 |  #22

MizzouMan_2000 wrote in post #18549036 (external link)
The high school in town upgraded to LED lights over the summer. It made a huge difference! I took my 5D3 to a game or 2 before they upgraded and I hated it. I'd spend so much time trying to correct the constantly changing color temperatures and exposures. I wouldn't bother going to anymore with those old lights.

I've been to more basketball games this year than probably the last 3 or 4 combined.

The worst thing now is just that the ends of the court are darker. I probably have to bump up exposure by 2/3 to 1 stop in Lightroom when there's action on the baseline. I shoot manual, so I just fix it in post.

I use manual mode on the 7D2 and 5D4, with auto ISO, with EC set up 1/3. That fixes the edges of the court issues I face.


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heat00
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Jan 26, 2018 10:05 as a reply to  @ MizzouMan_2000's post |  #23

this is probably my biggest concern with the 7dII, that I face now with my t3i and 70-200. not really so much concern but more advantage of FF with a 70-200.... whereas currently I find myself always having to switch from my 24-70 to my 70-200 as most of my shots I see end up right in that 50-80/100 MM range (on Crop), which requires 2 lenses. with the FF, a 70-200 covers that focal range nicely without the need to switch to the 24-70. Many times I like to shoot under the basket with players coming at me however many times you are right, it's too close with a crop and 70-200....
This is what leans me towards a 5dIII.




  
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MizzouMan_2000
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Jan 26, 2018 16:14 |  #24

heat00 wrote in post #18549346 (external link)
this is probably my biggest concern with the 7dII, that I face now with my t3i and 70-200. not really so much concern but more advantage of FF with a 70-200.... whereas currently I find myself always having to switch from my 24-70 to my 70-200 as most of my shots I see end up right in that 50-80/100 MM range (on Crop), which requires 2 lenses. with the FF, a 70-200 covers that focal range nicely without the need to switch to the 24-70. Many times I like to shoot under the basket with players coming at me however many times you are right, it's too close with a crop and 70-200....
This is what leans me towards a 5dIII.

I tried the 24-70 f/2.8L. I was not pleased in general and sold it.

I sit at the corner of the baseline. I'd like to sit under the goal, but there's just not much room between baseline & wall and usually cheerleaders are there, depending on the size of the squad from the visiting school.

I also tried my 16-35 f/2.8. Got some interesting shots, but it seems too slow to focus or something. It just couldn't hit focus it seemed like.



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heat00
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Jan 26, 2018 21:42 as a reply to  @ MizzouMan_2000's post |  #25

so you're saying you just stick with the 70-200, and with FF that works perfectly?




  
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MizzouMan_2000
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Jan 26, 2018 21:53 |  #26

heat00 wrote in post #18549875 (external link)
so you're saying you just stick with the 70-200, and with FF that works perfectly?

Perfectly? No. But a good majority of the time it does very well. I wish the gym here was like the gym where I went to high school. We actually had bleachers at either end of the court, so tons of room. This gym has roughly 8 ft from the baseline to a padded brick wall on both ends. At one end, on the corners, are doors to some other room (no idea what it is), but the doorways are recessed about another 6 ft. I sit at the very edge of that recessed space just so I can look around the corner. If I go to the other end of the court, there's nowhere to go so I stand at the end of the bleachers in front of the entrance from the locker room. A couple of times I squeeze my rear against the wall. Once when I used my 16-35 and got a kid going for a game tying 3 right in front of me with just a couple seconds left in the game.

But overall, I'm pleased with my 70-200. I recently learned of a 120-300(?) f2/8 from some other manufacturer. That sounded appealing, but the 120 won't be near wide enough on the near end of the court - even with full frame.



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Post edited over 1 year ago by TeamSpeed.
     
Jan 26, 2018 22:42 |  #27

The lenses you use depends on the venue and your placement to the action. Also sometimes, it is good to be at the half court mark and capture action from that vantage point. Both the 24-70 II and 70-200 II are very critical to my own situation for example. That may be different for others.

My 14 year old daughter helped me out a couple games ago with the 7D2 and 24-70.

IMAGE: https://photos.smugmug.com/Sports-Events/Mad-Ants-Current-Season/Jan-05-2018/i-K9L5x5B/0/adf43eba/X2/216A5222-X2.jpg

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heat00
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Jan 27, 2018 10:12 as a reply to  @ MizzouMan_2000's post |  #28

agreed I find the same issues... I guess at the end of the day you will still need that 24-70 on either FF or crop to some degree... so maybe still best off with the 7dII to get the best FPS and focusing, not to mention the anti flicker and true auto iso, as Teamspeed has indicated.




  
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heat00
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Jan 27, 2018 10:14 as a reply to  @ TeamSpeed's post |  #29

your shots (and your daughters shots) are amazing as always! I hope to get shots this year 1/4 as good as those :)
as soon as I have the time I'm going to get the new body, season starts in 2 weeks so it's time get the new body and get familiar with it...




  
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Post edited over 1 year ago by TeamSpeed. (3 edits in all)
     
Jan 27, 2018 12:58 |  #30

I am shooting a BB tourney right now at Penn HS with CFL bulbs. I am using the 7d2 and both L lenses. Will post a couple this evening...

Terrible sample but this is directly out of camera, I happen to have my wifi with me so I can access the pics with my phone. Once I get home these can be post processed to be crisper and have less noise.


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Basketball focus technique
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