Spot metering skin tone

Using a 5DM3, and still being fairly new to all this, I am trying to use spot metering to measure on a fair skinned person's cheek. I'm trying to get between 1/3 and 2/3 of a stop brighter then midtone. I'm doing this by setting the aperture, shutter speed, and then playing with ISO as needed.

1. For doing what I am trying to accomplish, is the decision to go with 1/3 or 2/3 of a stop brighter then mid tone for skin tone just a subjective choice, or is there anything else I need to be considering?

2. How important is it to spot meter skin tones as I described but also spot meter for shadows on the subject?

Thanks.

Heya,

If you were using lighting to accomplish this, I would just say use a flash meter and get it precise that way, and be done. Easy.

But you're probably doing this via natural light based on you floating ISO as your variable.

So to me, here's what I suggest:

1) When you do the exposure with skin being 1/3rd or 2/3rds brighter than mid tone, everything is the same amount of a stop brighter. Everything. Thus, if shooting in RAW, just get exposure correct, and gently push or pull it in post via the RAW file by 1/3rd or 2/3rds of a stop at your leisure and benefit the dynamic range of your sensor (your sensor can handle +/- 1 stop of exposure in RAW with room to spare easily at lower ISO values).

2) It's not important at all unless you're blending multiple exposures or using lighting. Otherwise, with a single exposure, expose correctly and adjust areas in RAW that you need (ie lift shadows, pull highlights).

Very best,

Is is important to keep in mind that the randomly chosen subject's facial tone will be randomly brighter than 18% gray 'midtone'.

Had you randomly chosen me, your actual reading of my face just a moment ago is +1.3EV brighter than a gray card! IOW my face in your photo would be UNDERexposed in your resulting shot.
This in spite of the general statement that the average person's PALM of hand is +1.0EV brighter than the same gray card, while the skin seen on their face is a variable amount darker than that (depending upon ethnicity and degree of suntanning at different times of year)

southwestform wrote in post #18532789
1. For doing what I am trying to accomplish, is the decision to go with 1/3 or 2/3 of a stop brighter then mid tone for skin tone just a subjective choice, or is there anything else I need to be considering?

Unless you're measuring each subject's skin and comparing it to some known value -- like middle gray -- you're just guessing. You'll probably be within roughly half a stop of correct, but it'll just be a roll of the dice.

I prefer an incident meter for critical applications because it eliminates the reflectivity of the measured surface as a factor.

Failing that, I'd suggest measuring a place on your own skin, like your palm or back of hand, under controlled lighting and compare it to neutral gray in the same light. Then wherever you go, you've got a known value to measure. So if your hand measures 1 stop brighter than middle gray under controlled light during your test, it should also be pretty close to that value in the field.

southwestform wrote in post #18532789
2. How important is it to spot meter skin tones as I described but also spot meter for shadows on the subject?

It's not important at all unless you know what to do with the shadow measurement and are actually willing and able to make changes to take that reading into account. In digital imagining, particularly for portraits, I find highlight control is usually more critical than shadow control. I can usually get by with some loss of detail in shadows, but blown out highlights to me are a much more serious problem.

If you're talking about measuring to determine lighting ratios, it's pretty easy to do that by eye and that's one of the big advantages of shooting digital -- instant feedback.

Good luck.

Your exposure standard is irrelevant to actual skin brightness. A Scandanavian does not want greyish skin. A black does not want greyish skin...I know, because 25 years ago before I photographed her for the first time, a black model told me that blacks all too often disliked being shown in photos with 'ashy' skin all too often!

Record any skin at its INHERENT BRIGHTNESS compared to 18% gray tonality.

• A Scandanivian fashion model might be +1.66EV relative to 18% tonality
  
• As stated, I am currently +1.3EV compared to 18% tonality; in two weeks, after a trip to the mountains for skiing, I estimate I will be only +0.9EV brighter compared to 18% tonality
  
• James Earl Jones would prefer to be portrayed at his own inherent skin brightness, not 'ashy'. BTW his skin is darker than Morgan Freeman.
  

Wilt wrote in post #18532837
Is is important to keep in mind that the randomly chosen subject's facial tone will be randomly brighter than 18% gray 'midtone'.

Had you randomly chosen me, your actual reading of my face just a moment ago is +1.3EV brighter than a gray card! IOW my face in your photo would be UNDERexposed in your resulting shot.
This in spite of the general statement that the average person's PALM of hand is +1.0EV brighter than the same gray card, while the skin seen on their face is a variable amount darker than that (depending upon ethnicity and degree of suntanning at different times of year)

1. Is there an ideal location of the subject's skin tone to meter off of?

2. If grass is available in the same lighting as my subject, is it more accurate to meter off of grass then skin tone?

3. OR should I just use a grey card, fill the screen, and adjust ISO/shutter until I get between 1/3 and 2/3 of a stop brighter then midtone in the lighting of my subject when I'm taking portraits?

Thank you.

southwestform wrote in post #18533297
1. Is there an ideal location of the subject's skin tone to meter off of?

2. If grass is available in the same lighting as my subject, is it more accurate to meter off of grass then skin tone?

3. OR should I just use a grey card, fill the screen, and adjust ISO/shutter until I get between 1/3 and 2/3 of a stop brighter then midtone in the lighting of my subject when I'm taking portraits?

Thank you.

By far, the best solution would be to get a meter that can make incident readings. Hold the meter so that the light source(s) is/are in the same relative position to meter as it/they are to the subject. After some experimentation, you may find that you want to modify the readings made this way by some offset value.

If you are totally against buying a handheld meter, use a grey card that's designed for light level measurement. Hold the card so the light is falling on it in roughly the same direction as the light falling on the subject and meter the light reflecting from the card.

The easiest way by far IMO would be to use an incident light meter.

Alternatively, spot metering off grass or pavement should get you close enough. Using a grey card located in similar light to the intended subject should also work ... either spot metering off it or filling the frame.

Any of these would probably be more reliable than trying to spot meter off the subject.

I'm not sure where your requirement to adjust to 1/3 or 2/3 brighter than a mid-tone is coming from. If you use the readings from a grey card or an incident meter unadjusted, the image should be well exposed and skin-tones should be fine. This is unless you have some particular desire to retain extra shadow detail in a high dynamic range scene by deliberately exposing to the right.

SkipD wrote in post #18533307
By far, the best solution would be to get a meter that can make incident readings. Hold the meter so that the light source(s) is/are in the same relative position to meter as it/they are to the subject. After some experimentation, you may find that you want to modify the readings made this way by some offset value.

If you are totally against buying a handheld meter, use a grey card that's designed for light level measurement. Hold the card so the light is falling on it in roughly the same direction as the light falling on the subject and meter the light reflecting from the card.

I'm not against getting a handheld meter, though I will need to research, and buy one, so in the meantime I want make sure I fully understand how to use the built in light meter/spot meter.

1.) I do have some grey cards that I have never used before (please see attached image). The grey on these different targets are slightly different. Thoughts on whether any of these are accurate enough to use?

2.) I also just realized that I had been using spot metering based on the focus point, and I now realize that spot metering with the 5DM3 only works based on the circular center point of the view finder. The circle is larger then the focus box. What happens if I am spot metering with the circle and it is getting something grey but also something with white or black? Perhaps if I'm metering on one of those cards and I get a bit of black or white along with the grey. Do I just need to do everything possible to ensure that the circle is only focussed on the grey?

Thanks.

southwestform wrote in post #18533358
I'm not against getting a handheld meter, though I will need to research, and buy one, so in the meantime I want make sure I fully understand how to use the built in light meter/spot meter.

1.) I do have some grey cards that I have never used before (please see attached image). The grey on these different targets are slightly different. Thoughts on whether any of these are accurate enough to use?

2.) I also just realized that I had been using spot metering based on the focus point, and I now realize that spot metering with the 5DM3 only works based on the circular center point of the view finder. The circle is larger then the focus box. What happens if I am spot metering with the circle and it is getting something grey but also something with white or black? Perhaps if I'm metering on one of those cards and I get a bit of black or white along with the grey. Do I just need to do everything possible to ensure that the circle is only focussed on the grey?

Thanks.

Hosted photo: posted by southwestform in
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forum: Canon Digital Cameras

I wouldn't be too concerned about the variations in grey cards ... although use one from a reputable manufacturer if you can. There are also variations between cameras. So a little trial and error to get the feel of how spot metering works out for a particular card and camera combination is probably called for. You can then make your own decision about whether to adjust by a bit of a stop one way or the other to get the best SOOC shots.

I think metering and focusing are best considered and managed separately. So first spot meter off something suitable or get an incident light meter reading. Then set the exposure settings (speed, aperture, iso) in manual mode. Then focus and shoot. Chimp and adjust if necessary.

Edit: I'd try to spot meter off just the grey area on a grey card. You can also take a first shot with your subject holding the grey card in frame. That could be helpful in making adjustments in post.

I prefer the services of a qualified chimping monkey. Sure they can be obstinate and a bit crude, but they know their craft and preform well in most situations. I've had one for over 20 years now and wouldn't be without.

southwestform wrote in post #18533297
1. Is there an ideal location of the subject's skin tone to meter off of?

2. If grass is available in the same lighting as my subject, is it more accurate to meter off of grass then skin tone?

3. OR should I just use a grey card, fill the screen, and adjust ISO/shutter until I get between 1/3 and 2/3 of a stop brighter then midtone in the lighting of my subject when I'm taking portraits?

Thank you.

You should meter off an 18% gray card, and IGNORE SKIN TONE (and whether it is ass skin or elbow skin or facial skin)!
If you had looked at this linked photo that I posted previously
http://colourbalance.l​ornaroth.com …2/03/web-ShirleyGetty.jpg
and seen that you have those three models for the shot, whose skin tone would you have metered from for a reference?!

Different grasses meter atvdifferent brightnesses relative to an 18% gray card, too. So metering grass is no less situation dependent than metering skin!

Meter the gray card and USE THAT READING as measured, totally unadjusted, with zeroi thought about skin tone and where it comes from on the body!!!

Wilt wrote in post #18533408
You should meter off an 18% gray card, and IGNORE SKIN TONE (and whether it is ass skin or elbow skin or facial skin)!
If you had looked at this linked photo that I posted previously
http://colourbalance.l​ornaroth.com …2/03/web-ShirleyGetty.jpg
and seen that you have those three models for the shot, whose skin tone would you have metered from for a reference?!

Different grasses meter atvdifferent brightnesses relative to an 18% gray card, too. So metering grass is no less situation dependent than metering skin!

Meter the gray card and USE THAT READING as measured, totally unadjusted, with zeroi thought about skin tone and where it comes from on the body!!!

I did look at the photo you posted, thanks for posting it. Just trying to make sure I understand all this.

1. After spot metering on the grey card, am I just trying to get the exposure meter to read 0?

2. If using the grey card, do I always just get the exposure meter to read 0 regardless if I'm shooting a black and white dog, two fair skinned kids sitting close together, etc.?

Thanks!

Yes, there is an optimal point: halfway between the highlight and the terminator.

Some useful info:
https://photography-on-the.net …showthread.php?​p=18424396
http://gurneyjourney.b​logspot.ca …t-and-form-part-1_15.html

southwestform wrote in post #18533443
I did look at the photo you posted, thanks for posting it. Just trying to make sure I understand all this.

1. After spot metering on the grey card, am I just trying to get the exposure meter to read 0?

2. If using the grey card, do I always just get the exposure meter to read 0 regardless if I'm shooting a black and white dog, two fair skinned kids sitting close together, etc.?

Thanks!

Not sure what you mean by 'read 0'...if you mean 'center the needle, rather than compensate the reading by putting the needle into either the Minus or the Plus values', the answer is YES.

When you meter a gray card, you do not need to COMPENSATE the reading.
When you meter a black cat or the skin or dress of a Scandanavian bride, you do need to COMPENSATE the reading by putting the needle on the Plus side of the scale when you spotmeter her white gown; compensate the reading off the fur of the black cat with Minus compensation.
Since you are not sure of HOW MUCH DIFFERENT her gown is vs. 18% gray, nor are you certain of how much different the black cat is vs. 18% gray, rather than guess the differential for use in compensation, merely METER 18% GRAY with zero compensation or guessing of the amount involved.