Relationship advice - What after 1DS Mark II?

An ambiguous title, but a direct question. What comes after my "long" relationship with the Canon 1Ds Mark II?

Introduction:

I own a 1Ds Mark II, and a 1D Mark II - a dream team from the yesteyear, but undoubtedly amazing and very capable cameras. They have been by my side through rain, snow, sun and any other condition imaginable. From my point of view, the 1D series cameras are the epitome of camera technology (same applies to the flagships of Nikon, etc. I'm not trying to trash talk any brand). If it was good enough for the likes of James Nachtwey, National Geographic and many more, it should be more than enough for a hobby photographer like me. But.

The problem:

It's the unstoppable force - time. I feel like I'm missing out on the modern user-friendliness (less important) of the latest cameras and the low light performance. After working with a 5D Mark III (which I cannot afford) and Fuji X-T2 (which I also cannot afford, but there is the X-T1) I felt like a geezer among teenagers. The cameras are much simpler, undeniably better in low light, and have a myriad of other options which appeal to me. I can't help but wonder if all this new technology has made us lazier, wanting more and more, while not being prepared to learn and "sacrifice" as much. Now, the main issue came up when I was shooting a kid's birthday without a flash and the files at ISO 1600 were just not as clean as I would have liked. It goes without saying that ISO 3200 was even less appealing. It was a sort of a favor my girlfriend's sister, so I had no repercussions professionally wise, but then again, I didn't feel like I did a good job either. The focus had no issues, but the noise performance, from my point of view, was not adequate. Lighting was really bad though, in good light the camera is flawless, but I simply am at a point where I don't want many limitations, especially in low light.

What I shoot:

I work as a journalist (foreign policy, etc.), but rarely as a photojournalist, which is my passion. I simply shoot out of love for the photography, and occasionally, when schedule allows it, I have a paid assignment. With that in mind, I am at a point where I feel I want to move forward, but the pros of the 1D series make it hard to move along.

What I want:

It's simple. A modern (or semi-modern) camera. I have looked at the 6D, but it feels like a toy. I am not really that careful with my cameras, and I expect them to perform well in the worst of conditions, since I don't know where I could end up on assignments. It's sort of a contingency, for which the 1D series is fully prepared. The 5D mark II seems like a good option, I will be trying out one soon, but again, there is an issue of the body shape of the 1D series, which is simply said (subjectively) perfect. The 1DS Mark III came up in a discussion with a fellow photographer, but he laughed it off, and I can understand that. 1DX is way out of my reach, and that's about it. I'm stuck.

Having worked with Fuji gear, I had a cold shower after trash-talking the mirrorless cameras. The only issue I have with them is how reliable are they for "moderate-action" e.g. protests, moving subjects in low light, etc. I am not a sports photographer, hence, I am not really interested in it's performance sports-wise (and I know it does not excel in that area). The issue here is that I would be transferring to a different system, and I already have a good network of photographers working with Canon gear. *Although Fujis are way smaller than any Canon dSLR, they don't feel like a toy to me, and with a grip it feels good in my hands, which is simply not the case with the 6D.

Intersection:

Here's where we stand - a photographer using old gear wants something new. He's a photojournalist in the making (if fate deals me a good hand), interested in visual storytelling (not like Steve McCurry, though) and portraiture. He's on Photography on the net forums for another cold shower.

Conclusion:

Having read what I have typed down, I see the inconsistencies (and that's one of the reasons I'm seeking advice). You want a good low light performer, yet you run away from the 6D, which is basically one of the best low light performers from the Canon line up. The reason is simple - I'm worried that I'll trash the camera, the gut tells me to walk away. Now, the reason I'm asking this question here, or rather, why I need another cold shower, is that I have always respected the opinions of people on this site. With so much knowledge here, it is inevitable that I will draw a clearer picture of what I need after hearing your opinions (provided that you answer that is). I'm looking forward to discussing this matter, and sorry for this wall of text. I think that is just another clue of how lost I currently am regarding this matter.

Thanks in advance.

If you have played about with a 5D3 and Fuji X-T2 you'll already know that neither of them are a 1D. Both are quite tough but in a fall my money would be on the Canon. And I say that as a Fuji shooter. Not that I think Fuji camera are not up to the job just I've only dropped one Fuji camera (It still works).

If you have access to a load of lenses to borrow that can save you a load of bother, myself and a few others kinda pool our Fuji gear so if the need arrises I can borrow or lend a lens/camera as needed. That if a life saver as it's really hard to rent gear in Ireland.

For ISO the full frame will be better but not by very much, I think the noise in the Fuji is less bothersome than on the Canon though and the DR is much better also (than the 5D3).

Here is a ISO12800 image, 1/100 @f/1.4, Fujifilm X-PRO2 nice colours, no?

Photo from Two Hot Shoes's gallery.
Image hosted by forum (848425)

I don't understand "laugh of the 1DS3". Is there a joke I missed?

1D3 will give you better low light performance, will be very similar and IMHO, most changes are for the better: much better rear LCD, better options for managing the 2 cards, higher frames per second, bigger buffer. Only downside a drop in pixels. Cheap is a bonus.

1D4. Cost more than 1D3, same pixels, huge buffer, great high ISO.

I only considered 1 series as that seems to be your preference. If a 1DS3 was available, depending on price I would consider it.

He laughed about it, since he is acquainted with my preferences. Basically, what he meant is that I am not going to get a drastic improvement in low light performance with the 1Ds Mark III (which is I believe in essence true).

Well, I do find myself in adverse conditions sometimes, so I have to be prepared for that because I do not own a whole lot of gear, so I can't risk having limitations imposed by rain showers or snowy conditions. Of course any camera can be prone to failure in such conditions, but weather sealing does help a lot, which basically rules out the X-E3 and the X-T20.

I am basically looking for something (on a budget) to shoot comfortably up to ISO 6400, and produce usable images.

Thanks for the image, I agree with your opinion.

I would go buy the 1Dx2.

It has a remarkable sensor and you... being on a 1D body this long.....you wont be happy with anything else.

This is by far the best body that Canon has ever put out. You will be impressed. Maybe keep the 1Ds for studio work. I love your camera but as a wedding shooter i opted for the 1DMKIII and updated to the 1DMKIV for iSo performance. I Loved the 1.3 sensors.Really ticked me off that Canon discontinued so I reluctantly switched to the 5D3's for full frame use. I used the 1Dx a few times and realized I made a big mistake stepping away from the 1DMKIV. When the update came out, I got the 1Dx2 and have not looked back. Low iso is not a problem on this sensor but the high ISO capabilities are mind blowing.

I Highly recommend this 1Dx2 camera. I much prefer the files on this body over the files on the 5D4. Files are simply remarkable and highlight recovery is the best I have ever used. I can now shoot for dark/shadows and not worry too much about being able to recover highlights in post. I use it for everything now and its a Kick but camera for studio needs.

Weather proof is what the 1Dx2 is. I can shoot in standing rain here is Washington and not worry where as I would be worried with a 5D4. ISO performance is good to 25000 iso where as your camera gets me worried at 2000 ISO. If 3200 is the max you would go on your current body, 12800 is about where you would land on the 1Dx2 for similar noise concerns and testing. So probably a full 2-2.5 stops over what you currently use...Thats a lot

There is nothing better i canons line up. Its worth every penny. I dont think you will be happy on a prosumer body. I know I was not

I believe you missed the part where I said I can't even afford the 5D Mark III, so looking for a compromise

My initial reaction to the title was

Embalming or cremation?

I believe you are wrong about the sturdiness of the 6D, or any other prosumer Canon. I faced the same problem when I was making the transition to dSLR back in 2011. My 60D was denigrated as the Super Rebel, a plastic joke, an inferior camera. Seven years later, I can report that I haven't seen any evidence that is more susceptible to physical damage than the 50D or the 70D or any other. To the contrary, I learned that plastic is tough, Glock makes pistols out of the stuff...

I would concentrate on what your photographic requirements are.

Do you demand a FF?

If you can live with a crop, you can even buy the 80D as a refurb for under $800. A 60D will set you back under $400.

Both cameras I mentioned have better AF than the 5DII or the 6D (my opinion).

If you have to have a FF, it is a difficult decision. From most reports, the center point AF of the 6D is better than the 5DII and the sensor is stellar compared to the (much older 5DII).

Of course, professionals 'made do' with the 5DII for years...

In summary

Can you live with a crop? Get the xxD you can afford

You can't live without a FF? It's a tossup, but I would go for the 6D

Your mileage may vary...

Unfortunately the 1Ds III isn't the next camera you want probably. The ISO performance just isn't where you need it to be. And they still fetch an enormous price for what the camera is today, relative to modern cameras in the 5D & 6D series that exceed it in every way other than build and weather sealing. The 1DX as you saw is pretty pricey even used.

So really, it's either stick with 1D series and pay for it, or consider moving to the 5D series (which the 5D3 is what you would do well to get for cost, it's a 1D in every way other than the tank-build). Otherwise, it's time to explore, as you have, other camera systems. Pentax & Fuji make excellent much more affordable weather sealed camera options. Of those two, Fuji is a little more universally available and the prices might reflect better with more options for glass. Pentax makes awesome tank cameras for a lot cheaper than Canon, the glass is a little more limited, but still not cheap. Worth looking at.

I have a 1D Mark III & a Fuji X-T1. Both can take rain and go to the beach with me. I really don't mind not having the tank build of my 1D. I actually prefer the smaller size of my Fuji system. I keep my 1D for when I'm using big telephotos (only because frankly Fuji doesn't have any big telephotos yet).

But really if you like tank build, weather sealing, and you want something in the price range of the 1Ds Mark III to the 1DIV, then Pentax may have something for you.

Very best,

If you were to try a 5d2 with a battery grip I thi k you would be pleased with the feel. Its. Its not a 1 series but it's still a sold camera, especially with your budget considerations.

umphotography wrote in post #18554619
I would go buy the 1Dx2.

It has a remarkable sensor and you... being on a 1D body this long.....you wont be happy with anything else.

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Why suggest something that the OP clearly and repeatedly said that he can't afford?
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Strahinja wrote in post #18554520
After working with a 5D Mark III (which I cannot afford) and Fuji X-T2 (which I also cannot afford.......)

The 1DX is way out of my reach, and that's about it. I'm stuck.

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I see this done over and over again in photography forums - people just ignoring what the OP has said, and I can't understand why people continue to do it. . I sometimes get the idea that maybe people reply without carefully reading the entire post that they are replying to.


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For the OP:

I think that you have put yourself in a hard position, with respect to the compromises that must be made.

You say that you want to shoot comfortably at 6400 ISO, that your budget is < the price of a 5D3 or used 1Dx, and that you really want the 1D build. . Hmmmm. . I think that you may have to pick two of these things, but will not find all three in one camera.

I think that a 1D Mark 4 would come very close to meeting your needs because it is VERY budget friendly, with used prices now in the $800 - $900 range. . And of course it has that same 1D series size and build quality that you want.

The thing that the 1D Mark 4 lacks (in my opinion) is great noise performance at 6400. . It is MUCH better than the 1D2 generation cameras that you are currently using. . But 6400? . I don't think that will work great unless you do some kind of noise reduction in post processing. . But it is stellar at 1600 ISO and sometimes usable at 3200 ISO (without any noise reduction being used).

There will no doubt be people that tell you that the 1D4 is very useable at 6400 ISO, but I wouldn't trust them. . They either don't print big (36" and larger), or they do not submit images to picky publishers and stock agency review boards, or they use noise reduction, which works for things like sports where there is not really much (if any) extremely fine detail. . Perhaps for your usage 6400 would be okay, but there is most definitely noise grain, especially in the dark, out-of-focus areas of an image.

I have used the 1D4 as my primary body for the past 4 1/2 years, and been pleased with it, as it meets most of my needs.

I agree that the 6D is toy-like. . I just got one as a backup, and don't imagine that it will withstand the rigors of hard outdoor use in rain, sleet, snow, mud, dust, and sand.


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Strahinja wrote in post #18554652
I believe you missed the part where I said I can't even afford the 5D Mark III, so looking for a compromise

You are right I did

Gonna be hard if you have been on a 1Ds this long. Maybe a lower count 1Dmkiv if you can find one

Four years ago I had the 1D3, 1DS3, and 1D4 bodies. I got rid of the 1D3 and 1DS3 and got 5D3 and 5D4 bodies. I kept the 1D4 for sports, inclement weather or other stressful shooting. After using a 1D series body you obviously see they have different pro features compared to Canon's other bodies. Multi-spot metering where the spot meter follows the selected AF point. Other bodies only spot meter off the center point. The 1D basic body style with "built-in" grip is much more proper and sturdy than a 5D body with the accessory grip. I like the shutter eyepiece on the 1D bodies too - not to be found on other models. A feature I love and use often on my 1D4 is the voice annotation ability. When reviewing a photo on the rear screen I can hit the microphone button and add up to about 30 seconds of voice to an image file. Comes in handy when shooting and the subject gives me their name or email for example. Or if I want to add other info about the subject. Very handy. When reviewing in Lightroom I simply click a button that shows audio is attached and it plays. All that being said the 5D4 gives me better images under more conditions than my 1DS3 did. And at 7 frames per second versus 10 on the 1D3 its not all that slower.

80D with a grip. Done.

I call shenanigans. You say that your not satisfied with the noise in your high ISO images. I say that the noise won't impact the message in the image. I have an ISO 12800 shot taken with the 5D3 and it is really noisy when zoomed in at 100% and has reduced dynamic range. But I printed it and I'm happy because I captured a great moment.

High ISO images are usually in situations where you can't quite control the lighting anyhow. And if you know you'll be shooting in those conditions, bring a flash or a wide, fast prime.

I say stick with your 1DS Mark II. I shot with a 1D3 and it isn't more complicated them my 5D3.