Panasonic G9.

I generally shoot RAW+JPG, that way I have the option to edit for best or a “quickie” to share for where appropriate. I find it easier than switching back and forth between the two.

I use my iPad Pro for almost everything these days, the photos I post here are imported and then tweaked to my liking in PhotoShop Express on the iPad. I am happy with the jpgs in most cases unless there is an extreme dynamic range or I need to greatly bring up shadows or it is a particularly “good” shot where I want best IQ possible.

A comparison of a shot I grabbed the other day from the middle of the road. Shot with my GX9, but I believe they use the same sensor/processing

SOOC jpg, resized. Shot with “vivid” setting but still a bit flat

Well I guess if you have to edit a JPEG why not just edit the RAW file? I dunno.

Also seems with all the manipulation (especially WB) that having those settings apply to every photo and situarion is kind of defeating the purpose. Again, I dunno.

Not trying to be argumentative at all I’m just saying that the JPEG engine on the G9 doesn’t seem any better than the Canon 80D unless you want to mess with all the picture style settings and be willing to live with what you get OR be ready to edit the file some more anyway.

Agreed, if you are going to edit, may as well work with RAW. Of course the bigger RAW files take more time to transfer, more storage, and longer to load in the editing program.

I suppose if you were doing a lot of very similar shots you might save some time by presetting adjustments, but kind of like you I am of the mind of “If I am editing anyway, time adjusting camera (within reason) seems wasted.”

Admittedly I am not to technical when it comes to WB adjustments, I tend to just adjust to what looks “good” to me.

LoneRider wrote in post #18841841
Agreed, if you are going to edit, may as well work with RAW. Of course the bigger RAW files take more time to transfer, more storage, and longer to load in the editing program.

I suppose if you were doing a lot of very similar shots you might save some time by presetting adjustments, but kind of like you I am of the mind of “If I am editing anyway, time adjusting camera (within reason) seems wasted.”

Admittedly I am not to technical when it comes to WB adjustments, I tend to just adjust to what looks “good” to me.

Me too. I went through a short phase of shooting raw+jpg, but quickly went back to raw only once I got Lightroom on my iPad. Quick edits on the iPad are just as easy with raw files, and I like the results better than jpg. Everything is synced back to my desktop if I want to get serious.

the only reason I shoot raw + jpeg .. is for the occasional quick transfer to my phone to share something on social media with friends and family..so I keep doing it.. but eventually the jpegs get deleted from my hard drive

i-G12 wrote in post #18841739
I was just commenting that the Panasonic JPEG engine doesn't appear to be the great. Without all the changes you make do you agree?

No. No I don't. How does the camera manufacturer know exactly what style of photo every single purchaser of their product finds pleasing? The fact is they don't and never will. So, what they do, is give you options. Some very very good options in fact.
What you have to do, is sit down, & actually understand/comprehend what it is, that you don't like about your current jpegs. Not saturated enough? Lacking contrast? Blocked up shadows? Blown highlights? Consistently hot, or cold white balance? Once you actually understand what you want, or like, then it's simply a task of adjusting the required settings, to your own taste. It's not difficult. Really it's not.
Me, personally, I go with standard picture style, +2 on contrast, +2 on sharpness -3 on NR, & +2 on saturation. I pick standard auto WB, & go a little bit in the Magenta, as well as the Amber direction in the adjust menu. I leave iDynamic on, mostly standard, or in extreme lighting, bump it up to high. I have a custom setting in which I save all these, (you have 6 available to you -use them) along with shutter style, AF point style, etc etc etc. I find this produces some of the most beautifully detailed, crisp, saturated & exposed shots I've taken.
This, is the WHOLE POINT of buying a basically infinitely adjustable, customisable camera. In all aspects of operation. Otherwise, you'd be far far better off, simply trying out all the cameras the various manufacturers make, in standard mode, & picking one based solely on that.
Good luck with your tweaking.

PS -I'm not one of these militant jpeg or raw only freaks, that feels you have to draw a line in the sand, choose a side, & defend that position to the death. That's just plain stupid. Nor am I married to one, single camera brand/format, and do the same. If there's something I don't like, or am not happy with, the first port of call in solving, or changing things, is to myself. Too easy to just blame everything else around you.

Ok, well my understanding was that the jpeg settings only applied if shooting jpeg only.

I shoot raw and jpeg but you guys will laugh. I still file my pics in Windoze and it does not yet build a thumbnail for Panasonic raw. I am not that keen on the way libraries are arranged in other software, mind you I am not PC fluent by any means. I frankly like drag and drop, and suspect that going back to Adobe is a move I may be making in the near futre, because most of the competition, is more expensive and to me, not really as good or versatile.

kiwichris wrote in post #18842059
Ok, well my understanding was that the jpeg settings only applied if shooting jpeg only.

They do, but with a caveat. You'll notice that if you set your camera to shoot raw only, you can change the picture styles in the menu, & what is displayed in the EVF reflects these settings. Before you press the shutter. Try it -cycle through to monochrome, & the EVF representation will be black & white. Even though you've set the camera to raw only. There isn't anything baked into the recorded raw file, it's only a representation, as you can't actually view a raw. The exact same thing goes for iDynamic, except that what is represented in the EVF is what the camera would produce if you shot it in jpeg. If that makes any sense. The easiest way to get a somewhat flat, or basic starting point for a raw that you're going to edit, is to set your jpeg settings to natural, or standard, with iDynamic set to off.

I shoot raw and jpeg but you guys will laugh. I still file my pics in Windoze and it does not yet build a thumbnail for Panasonic raw. I am not that keen on the way libraries are arranged in other software, mind you I am not PC fluent by any means. I frankly like drag and drop, and suspect that going back to Adobe is a move I may be making in the near futre, because most of the competition, is more expensive and to me, not really as good or versatile.

Nothing wrong with that. Hope is at hand though, as apparently the next Windoze update will have support for Panasonic RW2 files built in.
Personally, I refuse to go on the drip feed tax for Adobe products, I was happy to use LR when you could buy it outright, & update whenever YOU wanted, but I'm not going to be forced to pay every month for something that stops working the minute you stop paying the drip feed tax.

I'm a big fan of SilkyPix, I buy the Panasonic only version which is as cheap as chips really, and it has all the Panasonic picture styles built in. A one click edit nearly I'm currently running Developer Studio Pro8, & love the results I get out of it. The new, free version (SilkyPix Developer studio 8 SE) even recognises your in camera settings on raw import, when you shoot raw only. Much like Canon's DPP does.
It has quite a different set of terminology for it's editing processes, it takes a little bit to learn, it's not Adobe. Which seems to upset a lot of new users, simply because it's different, & requires a bit of a learning curve.
I've actually written a simple & basic tutorial on another forum, on how to go about converting & editing a Panasonic raw file in SP, as when I started, I couldn't find anything in plain English, on how to do the simple basics ie lift shadows, pull back highlights, noise reduction techniques etc.
The best thing about it, is that it doesn't try & take over your computer, you don't have to worry about losing/corrupting catalogues, as it simply creates sidecar files in the folder where you open the files from. You can move them anywhere in your system, to another computer, do whatever you like, as long as you take the folder named SILKYPIX_DS with them. It's not hidden, it's right there in plain sight, just copy & paste the folder anywhere your heart desires. Works for me.

speedync wrote in post #18842078
Nothing wrong with that. Hope is at hand though, as apparently the next Windoze update will have support for Panasonic RW2 files built in.
Personally, I refuse to go on the drip feed tax for Adobe products, I was happy to use LR when you could buy it outright, & update whenever YOU wanted, but I'm not going to be forced to pay every month for something that stops working the minute you stop paying the drip feed tax.

I'm a big fan of SilkyPix, I buy the Panasonic only version which is as cheap as chips really, and it has all the Panasonic picture styles built in. A one click edit nearly I'm currently running Developer Studio Pro8, & love the results I get out of it. The new, free version (SilkyPix Developer studio 8 SE) even recognises your in camera settings on raw import, when you shoot raw only. Much like Canon's DPP does.
It has quite a different set of terminology for it's editing processes, it takes a little bit to learn, it's not Adobe. Which seems to upset a lot of new users, simply because it's different, & requires a bit of a learning curve.
I've actually written a simple & basic tutorial on another forum, on how to go about converting & editing a Panasonic raw file in SP, as when I started, I couldn't find anything in plain English, on how to do the simple basics ie lift shadows, pull back highlights, noise reduction techniques etc.
The best thing about it, is that it doesn't try & take over your computer, you don't have to worry about losing/corrupting catalogues, as it simply creates sidecar files in the folder where you open the files from. You can move them anywhere in your system, to another computer, do whatever you like, as long as you take the folder named SILKYPIX_DS with them. It's not hidden, it's right there in plain sight, just copy & paste the folder anywhere your heart desires. Works for me.

Does it have a filing system? Or do you need to create own folders, and does it store the RAW, as well the jpeg? And the link to your tutorial would be great.

I am still using Lightroom, the last stand alone version, but I know at some stage they will probably withdraw support for it, or it will simply cease to work. Like you I am not happy with paying a subscription
Thanks

roseyposey wrote in post #18842082
Does it have a filing system? Or do you need to create own folders, and does it store the RAW, as well the jpeg? And the link to your tutorial would be great.

No, it doesn't have a filing system. Personally, I class that as a big positive I absolutely HATE software that tries to take over your system, and create its own ecosystem. And yes, it saves raw & jpegs. If you shoot raw+jpeg, there's a setting you have to enable for it to download both on import. Just tick the box really. I've been a LR user since about LR4, an Elements user before that, & I've lost more edits & work than I care to remember down to the catalogue system. And I've tried my hardest to study up & learn how it's all supposed to work.

Here's a link to the basic tutorial I wrote. If you're going to try SP, make sure that you download the latest Developer Studio 8 SE. The earlier free versions were very uninspiring, the best thing I ever did was to buy the paid version https://www.mu-43.com …nversion-tutorial.103017/

I am still using Lightroom, the last stand alone version, but I know at some stage they will probably withdraw support for it, or it will simply cease to work. Like you I am not happy with paying a subscription
Thanks

Even if you could still buy a standalone version of LR, I now prefer SP. Lots of people complain about Panasonic colours, I really like them. I thought I liked Canon colour better, but after exclusively shooting Panasonic for a few months, (I still had my 6D) I went back & looked, and liked the Panny better. Same monitor, they (the Canon shots) just now look to have a bit of an Orange/reddish look to them.

speedync wrote in post #18842120
Even if you could still buy a standalone version of LR, I now prefer SP. Lots of people complain about Panasonic colours, I really like them. I thought I liked Canon colour better, but after exclusively shooting Panasonic for a few months, (I still had my 6D) I went back & looked, and liked the Panny better. Same monitor, they (the Canon shots) just now look to have a bit of an Orange/reddish look to them.

Thanks very much - I'll take a look, as want to be prepared for when LR stops working, as I imagine it will some time. Adobe are parasites IMO!

A while ago I had a canvas printed from my 70D - guy in the shop immediately said Canon, because of the colour! He is a Nikon man. I like the Panasonic colour, but am purely amateur in all this

I see there's now a version 9 ... did you get professional or standard?

i-G12 wrote in post #18841739
@speedync --- First off thank you for the information. The iDynamic and iResolution setting are set to "Off".

In reality it's prolly not that big a deal since I shoot RAW almost 100% of the time. Although getting a new camera and hearing about how great the JPEG engine is (without going through all the setting options you described), of course, you get curious. So I shot some JPEG + RAW just to see. Frankly I was disappointed. The JPEGS look flat and dull.

Sure I could go through all the WB curve adjustments and all the picture style adjustments just to make my self happy. I was just commenting that the Panasonic JPEG engine doesn't appear to be the great. Without all the changes you make do you agree?

Wasn't sure what to Quote to barge in so picked this post.

Can't comment on G9 as I have Olympus, have had for years, and I found more useful information from some of the camera comparisons than reading reviews of an actual camera.
I looked at G9 versus Olympus Em1 2, for egs.
G9 EM 1 2
That was similar in detail to when I bought EM5 1 then 2 and another camera.

Not saying I didn't get useful info from some of the personal photographers blogs (some are brilliant) but the comparisons were aimed at a different audience or potential purchasers.
And the comparisons often revealed more about the settings and the way to achieve similar outcomes in regards to white balance,warmth, tone, dynamic range etc.
I collect only jpeg and am very happy with results on EM5.
Not saying things couldn't be bettered with Raw, just a choice I made. (I have used Raw and Jpeg, but reverted to jpeg and stayed there)

The menu and settings are there for a purpose and as someone said, somewhere (EOSR?) the camera makers can't please us all and hence the menus and settings.

Welp. This tuned into an unintended consequence.

When I was initially researching the G9 I read a few comments from people raving about the JPEG engine on the G9. I guess I wrongfully assumed they were talking about taking a picture with the G9 and another camera (Canon for example) and how the JPEGS looked better. However without any adjustments to picture style and other things I don't think that is the case at all. Yes it's all subjective but I just thought Panasonic had come up with something really magically without fiddling with all the adjustments to make JPEGS look better.

As was pointed out what I think he a better result may differ from what somebody else thinks. As for tweaking the JPEG engine it can be done with almost any modern camera although maybe the G9 has a few things others don't.

I'll leave it at that. I'm not inclined to do that as I'm perfectly happy shooting RAW and editing my stuff.

Now, somebody had to open the other can of worms: The dreaded Abobe subscription issue with Lightroom. Really people, $10 a month? LOL Maybe y'All should cancel your monthly subscription to your Internet service, Cable TV and other stuff. Anyway...I find Adobe's subscription to be more than reasonable considering what you get. :shrug:

Back to the G9...