Anyone made the switch to a mirrorless?

MalVeauX wrote in post #18570380
Heya,

I went from Canon full frame to Fuji, via the X-T1 and manual Rokinon/Samyang lenses. I have zero regrets. I love the size/weight change. I don't even think about ISO when I shoot, I'm ok with it peaking at whatever (6400... 12,800, etc). I leave it on auto ISO unless I'm specifically targeting base ISO for shadow recovery purposes or when I'm using my lighting setup. I use R2 lighting and love it. ETTL & HSS with F1.2 glass is so easy on the Fuji system, love it. The X-T1 used (got mine from KEH with warranty) is such a ton of camera for the cost. The huge EVF is lag free, gorgeous, and I don't miss OVF at all after using it.

I find I use a 50mm F1.2 and a 12mm F2 lens the most often on my Fuji X-T1. The 50mm kills backgrounds if I want to, while still being short and small and light weight. Sharp wide open. I don't even think about ISO with them because F1.2 and F2 just gobbles light. And I'm a manual focus shooter, 100%, with my X-T1 and I have zero issues nailing it at F1.2 thanks to really accurate focus peaking in that big bright lag free EVF the X-T1 has. Love it.

Files clean up great. Again, I don't even think about what ISO I'm using, because it handles it well, and the only time I think about what the ISO is, is if I'm specifically targeting an ISO for lighting purposes, or for shadow recovery purposes (such as maximum dynamic range). I lift shadows at high ISO and it doesn't look nasty. The sensor is wonderful. I truly don't miss my full frame at all.

I made the change with a Fuji X100S first. I still use that as my every day walk around camera. It goes with us everywhere. I added the X-T1 because of the lens options and to control my lights. The system in general is way, way smaller than my Canon setup (1D, 5D, etc). I made the change to have more time with a small camera and smaller lenses that weigh less and are less "obvious" and less intrusive. My girls don't care if my little X100S is out, or my X-T1 with a 50mm. They don't see that. They do see my 5D or 1D with a big lens attached and hear the clacking of my mirror slapping around. With the Fuji's, they're so quiet, so non-intimidating, I can just take photos. I use my Fuji's in public too and I notice people just don't care. Where as before, if I swung out my big full frame and big lenses, the clapping of that mirror, people pay attention and look. It's annoying. I love how the Fuji's really just don't grab attention when exposing (silent). It makes candid shooting of your kids so much better. They don't hear my exposures at all now. Love that.

Thanks for your input. Those images look fantastic! Maybe off topic, but out of curiosity, I assume you used a fill flash for this one? https://flic.kr/p/DYfM​Fh what was the setup like?

Also, I'm just not sure about manaul focus lenses. I've never used one, admittedly, but I feel like I'd miss shots from being out of focus. I assume it's just a practice thing where you get better over time? Or is it really not THAT hard to get shots in focus with a manual lens?

05Xrunner wrote in post #18570383
I have not used any other Fuji camera except for my X-T1
Look at used. they seem to be going for about $450 right now at basically Mint condition.

Yeah, used may be the way to go. 599 new for the X-T1, but if I can find a good one for 450 used, that makes sense.

DTBaan wrote in post #18570510
my experience from dslr to mirrorless has been great.

i started with a canon rebel and from there i went to bigger bodies. 50d and nikon d800. as much as i love the handling and size, the weight and size of it was a con. lots of times i did not to take it with me and when i finally went on a vacation I told myself 'I am so going to get a smaller camera when I get back.' at that time I was thinking of the sony crop e-mount and a buddy told me that sony was releasing a full frame mirrorless so i anxiously waited for that. since then, i've been really happy.

for what i carried in the past as a walk around, a nikon d800 and 50 1.8, I could now carry a ful frame mirrless with 3 lens and felt lighter than the dslr+lens. i enjoyed my trip more not having to feel the camera sinking into my shoulder as I carry them around.

my old kit includes the following: a7R1, 24-70 f4, 35 2.8, 55 1.8

Ive now expanded and added a7R3, 24-70 2.8, 70-200 2.8 which causes some concerns.

the a7R3 is bigger and heavier body compared to the original but still smaller and lighter than a dslr. The 2.8 zoom lens is heavy and comparable to a dslr size lens. with this kind of setup, the thought of having a smaller and lighter set up with a mirrorless does not make sense.

i've told myself before that If i was going to get a big and heavy lens I would prefer it on a dslr and look into getting a dslr again. at the end I wanted to keep it simple and stick to one system. of course if money wasn't an issue, id have both.

As you can see I sort of went backwards to what I wanted in a mirrorless.

I'm not trying to sell you on sony here, i'm only using it because that's what I've experience with. I never owned a Fuji but i see that it's a good camera and I love the colors coming out of Fuji.

to sum up what ive said. for a light setup, use the smaller lens. if you get a bigger lens, there's no point in going smaller. i really enjoyed my original mirrorless setup, it was light and enough for what i need. i only got the 2.8 zooms because of weddings.

there's no doubt that full frame has better iso. but EverydayGetaway here dropped full frame and went with Fuji crop seeing that the iso holds up very well with not much of a difference. And from what I see, i agree.

Yeah definitely would need to find a lense that isn't huge for the Fuji. Like you said, no since in going smaller if the lens is still a bohemouth. I agree too about the ISO holding up. I'm sure the newer full-frame cameras are better, but I just don't see much difference from example shots I've seen between the x-T1 and the 5DM2.

Two Hot Shoes wrote in post #18570689
The cameras I grew up shooting and learnt on were full size SLR's oddly enough about the same size as the cameras I now use. Go figure.

I shoot weddings so have a camera to my eye more or less for about 12 hours. With the Canon's I was tired and my feet would be feeling it. These days, with the Fuji setup it's simply no bother to hold a camera in my hand all day, it's perfect with out a big grip as it's so light. I doubt I'd ever look forward to having to go beak to lugging about two heavy cameras about all day any time soon.


The X-T20 or the X-T1, the newer camera has faster AF, is smaller and better high ISO, the older camera is WR and that huge EVF is amazing to shoot with. I've been lucky to shoot with all the recent cameras, I like the X-PRO2 the best but I like the size of the EVF on the X-T1. The speed of the new cameras in terms of operation is great but I still bring the X-T1 & X-E2 to work. Hope you get to try a few out before you buy.

I'm ignorant, what's the benefit of the EVF? I really don't use the electronic viewfinder on my 5DM2 so I'm not sure how I could benefit from having a nice large one on the X-T1?

rantercsr wrote in post #18570815
.But the evf , and all its benefits.. ease of shooting manual , wysiwyg, etc..

What benefits does the EVF have? Sorry, I asked someone else above. I'm just ignorant on the topic I guess, because I've really never shot using the EVF on my 5DM2, so I'm not sure what benefits it provides me?

The 5D2 doesn't have an EVF. It has an OVF, thus why you may not appreciate what it is and its advantages or disadvantages.

https://www.adorama.co​m/alc/what-is-an-evf

When you hold your eye up to the viewfinder there is a screen (a high-resolution 2.36million dot OLED display).

More here on Fuji site

Ted sums it up well here in his video too

deronsizemore wrote in post #18571175
I'm ignorant, what's the benefit of the EVF? I really don't use the electronic viewfinder on my 5DM2 so I'm not sure how I could benefit from having a nice large one on the X-T1?

What benefits does the EVF have? Sorry, I asked someone else above. I'm just ignorant on the topic I guess, because I've really never shot using the EVF on my 5DM2, so I'm not sure what benefits it provides me?

Uh-oh, here come the great debate by the religously fanatic. I will try to list in a hopefully impartial way the pros and cons of mirrorless with EVF


PROS
Improved focus accuracy via use of sensor pixels (rather than separate focus sensor)
Finder brighter than focus screen in dim lighting
it’s possible to see the effect of camera settings in real time
No reflex mirror allows thinner camera body design


CONS
May have viewfinder 'lag' of different types which can affect tracking of fast objects or disturbing viewfinder traits
Increases battery consumption to power viewfinder
Continually-On sensor can contribute to increasing sensor noise


There are a number of other pros/cons that are actually associated with other characteristics, like shutter noise (or not), compatability with flash (which electronic shutters currently cannot handle as well as mechanical shutter) .

deronsizemore wrote in post #18571175
Thanks for your input. Those images look fantastic! Maybe off topic, but out of curiosity, I assume you used a fill flash for this one? https://flic.kr/p/DYfM​Fh what was the setup like?

Also, I'm just not sure about manaul focus lenses. I've never used one, admittedly, but I feel like I'd miss shots from being out of focus. I assume it's just a practice thing where you get better over time? Or is it really not THAT hard to get shots in focus with a manual lens?

That particular photo was natural light actually. I lifted shadows and mean a little bit, with some dodge/burn.

It's not hard at all to use manual lenses on systems that are designed to support manual focus. I'm frankly better with manual lenses because I can freely compose and not worry about an autofocus point being on the subject, etc, when shooting shallow DOF. It's not for everyone, but it's very easy on Fuji to shoot manual. It allowed me to get a lot of very fast (F1.2, F1.4) lesnes that normally would have cost a ton, just to have AF, which I don't need for what I shoot. I don't own any AF lenses for Fuji. But if you get AF lenses by Fuji, they're very good, sharp, accurate and fast to focus. Very nice lenses Fuji makes!

Here's a similar shot, but with fill light using a R2 Zoom TTL LiON speedlite in a 28" beauty dish with a sock diffuser (employed camera EV -0.67, TTL -1/3rd EV, HSS to sync):

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/Hv7X​dF

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/21mz​BLJ

Wilt wrote in post #18571200
Uh-oh, here come the great debate by the religously fanatic. I will try to list in a hopefully impartial way the pros and cons of mirrorless with EVF

PROS
Improved focus accuracy via use of sensor pixels (rather than separate focus sensor)
Finder brighter than focus screen in dim lighting
it’s possible to see the effect of camera settings in real time
No reflex mirror allows thinner camera body design

CONS
May have viewfinder 'lag' of different types which can affect tracking of fast objects or disturbing viewfinder traits
Increases battery consumption to power viewfinder
Continually-On sensor can contribute to increasing sensor noise

There are a number of other pros/cons that are actually associated with other characteristics, like shutter noise (or not), compatability with flash (which electronic shutters currently cannot handle as well as mechanical shutter) .

Was about to point out the EVF has nothing to do with the AF, but I see your point in reference to the lack of a mirror.

The EVF has nothing to do with the type of shutter the camera uses.
To use flash you need to use mechanical shutter, as far as I know. (perhaps you are taking about mirrorless in general rather than a reply to the question regarding the benefits of using an EVF)

Mirrorless are now available with zero blackout time and a lag so slow it won't impact the user, DLSRs have a blackout as the mirror is moved out of the way of the shutter.

Two Hot Shoes wrote in post #18571341
Was about to point out the EVF has nothing to do with the AF, but I see your point in reference to the lack of a mirror.

The EVF has nothing to do with the type of shutter the camera uses.
To use flash you need to use mechanical shutter, as far as I know. (perhaps you are taking about mirrorless in general rather than a reply to the question regarding the benefits of using an EVF)

Mirrorless are now available with zero blackout time and a lag so slow it won't impact the user, DLSRs have a blackout as the mirror is moved out of the way of the shutter.

I thought I had made it clear that the EVF per se has no direct relationship to shutter, or other characteristics of the camera.

EFV = optical viewfinder alternative

The omission of the mirror is directly related to EVF,
Yes, newer and faster EVF do have less lag (whenever the viewfinder is updated at 120Hz), and newer EVF do not have blackout when using the electronic shutter, but when relying upon the mechanical shutter (with flash) brief blackout does still occur.

deronsizemore wrote in post #18571175
What benefits does the EVF have? Sorry, I asked someone else above. I'm just ignorant on the topic I guess, because I've really never shot using the EVF on my 5DM2, so I'm not sure what benefits it provides me?

the advantages for me..

what you see is what you get.. your adjustments to exposure are seen in real time..
so if something is happening right now and you bring the camera up to take a photo ,,, you will immeditatly see that you are not exposed properly .. many times with an ovf i' v taken a photo or two then i realize i'm way over or under exposed ..

histogram, level , focus peaking , zebras ..

(i know some will say you could get that years ago in a 5d mkii with magic lantern .. but you do so at your own risk .. and so its not supported by canon.. i had it on the 5d3 and t4i .. and it will lock up your camera from time to time or act glitch)

also with portraits and when using lighting .. sometimes for creative porpuses you may want your background several stops underexposed .. you can change it so that its not WYSIWYG so that you can focus or compose properly etc.

I've been with some sort of mirrorless for a while now .. wether its sony.fuji, or Panasonic..
yes batteries drain faster.. because of the displays..
shoot a dslr only using the rear display and they'll burn thru batteries pretty quickly as well..
I've done timelapses with sonys and got over 1500 shots .. evf and rear screen turned off ..
so yes those displays do need powere..
luckily with many mirrorless cameras you have the option of external powering ..

when i had my sony a7sii and was trying to get into video .. i always had a 20,000 pwer bank attached .. it ran all day..either attached to a rig.. or when run and gun power bank was in my back pocket..
it really isn't an issue for me .
just like dslr size and/or weight really isn't an issue for some .. .

you can look at it many ways , one being -- "WOW!! you get 350 shots out of that tiny battery!!??!! ,, i can easily carry 2 or 3 in my pocket and shoot all day long!!

Wilt wrote in post #18571350
I thought I had made it clear that the EVF per se has no direct relationship to shutter, or other characteristics of the camera.

EFV = optical viewfinder alterative

The omission of the mirror is directly related to EVF,
Yes, newer and faster EVF do have less lag (whenever the viewfinder is updated at 120Hz), and newer EVF do not have blackout when using the electronic shutter, but when relying upon the mechanical shutter (with flash) brief blackout does still occur.

Brief is right !!

Fujifilm optimised the black out time of the EVF with the X-H1. In the new “CM” mode when using the new electronic first curtain shutter, you get 6fps with live view and around a measly 100msec of blackout-time. This is seriously impressive. It still uses a mechanical shutter, (in comparison to the Sony A9 which uses an all electronic shutter for blackout free shooting) but has almost no blackout. This is something people really have to see to believe. This speed option is however only available when mounting the accessory booster battery grip.

rantercsr wrote in post #18571376
Brief is right !!

Fujifilm optimised the black out time of the EVF with the X-H1. In the new “CM” mode when using the new electronic first curtain shutter, you get 6fps with live view and around a measly 100msec of blackout-time. This is seriously impressive. It still uses a mechanical shutter, (in comparison to the Sony A9 which uses an all electronic shutter for blackout free shooting) but has almost no blackout. This is something people really have to see to believe. This speed option is however only available when mounting the accessory booster battery grip.

Thanks for elaborating on the Fuji. This well illustrates the complexity of drawing generalizations...it really depends upon the design implementation as to how a camera behaves. As your explanation illustrates, a Fuji X-H1 mirrorless is somewhat different from a Sony A9 mirrorless, just as a Canon EOS RT is different from an Canon 1DXII in its behavior in spite of both being SLRs.

Each year the gap narrows, this year (2018) it really is so, so close. Next year I wonder how things will look on the DSLR V Mirrorless thought train.

Wilt wrote in post #18571350
I thought I had made it clear that the EVF per se has no direct relationship to shutter, or other characteristics of the camera.

EFV = optical viewfinder alternative

The omission of the mirror is directly related to EVF,
Yes, newer and faster EVF do have less lag (whenever the viewfinder is updated at 120Hz), and newer EVF do not have blackout when using the electronic shutter, but when relying upon the mechanical shutter (with flash) brief blackout does still occur.

Depending on the person, 60Hz could be enough to not even perceive the lag, everyone's eyes/mind works differently, there have been lots of studies to prove this.

I don't have that discriminating an eye, as I cannot tell when my TV is in 120Hz mode even for sports, but years ago I handled an Olympus OM-D and could easily detect lag of viewfinder vs. actual lens pointing position, as I panned as if attempting to follow in athlete moving across a field, particularly if I had rapid changes of direction as one might encounter while shooting a hockey match...I would change direction but the viewfinder was delayed in catching up. Some descriptions called it the jello effect, as one part of the viewfinder would start to catch up, and the rest would follow even a bit more delayed in the display. That's why Sony when to 120Hz displays in more recent cameras.

Wilt wrote in post #18571617
I don't have that discriminating an eye, as I cannot tell when my TV is in 120Hz mode even for sports, but years ago I handled an Olympus OM-D and could easily detect lag of viewfinder vs. actual lens pointing position, as I panned as if attempting to follow in athlete moving across a field, particularly if I had rapid changes of direction as one might encounter while shooting a hockey match...I would change direction but the viewfinder was delayed in catching up. Some descriptions called it the jello effect, as one part of the viewfinder would start to catch up, and the rest would follow even a bit more delayed in the display. That's why Sony when to 120Hz displays in more recent cameras.

120Hz mode on your TV is not the same thing as in an EVF. An original OM-D is also a whole different animal to any camera released in the past couple of years. Even going from my X-E2 to the X-Pro2 there was an obvious and clear difference. With my X-Pro2 however, I can't detect any difference in lag between the EVF or the OVF, both work great for sports (in fact, I prefer to use the EVF for it because I can see exactly where the focus is and what the meter is doing to the exposure).

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #18571557
Depending on the person, 60Hz could be enough to not even perceive the lag, everyone's eyes/mind works differently, there have been lots of studies to prove this.

Noticeable lag could occur with 10000 (insert as many zeros as you like) 00Hz refresh rate.