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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Still Life, B/W & Experimental Talk 
Thread started 28 Feb 2018 (Wednesday) 14:00
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Can a TiltShift alter the minimum focus distance to allow a close and a distant object to be sharp ?

 
Kumsa
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Feb 28, 2018 14:00 |  #1

Context: I have a need to use small props in a short distance, to be focused with larger distant objects. I've already used a DoF calculator to map out some scenarios, and I end up requiring larger props, wide angle or crazy f-stops (f/32).

Before going to a rabbit hole on Tilt Shift lens, I thought I'd ask if it's even feasible.

QUESTION: any experience with a T/S lens for simultaneously focusing on a near and far object that are lined up (the near in front of the far) ?

Thanks for anything you can share.


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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Post edited 3 months ago by Left Handed Brisket.
     
Feb 28, 2018 14:06 |  #2

Yes if you set your lens to MFD, and there is still an object too close to be in focus, if you tilt the lens in the correct direction it might bring the object into focus.

You will still want all th subjects that need to be in focus to be near the same plane of focus.


But, what about focus stacking? Might be an easier trick to pull off.


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Nogo
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Feb 28, 2018 14:07 |  #3

It would be much cheaper to just focus stack two or three images than to try to do it with a tilt shift lens.


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DaviSto
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Feb 28, 2018 14:10 |  #4

Kumsa wrote in post #18574613 (external link)
Context: I have a need to use small props in a short distance, to be focused with larger distant objects. I've already used a DoF calculator to map out some scenarios, and I end up requiring larger props, wide angle or crazy f-stops (f/32).

Before going to a rabbit hole on Tilt Shift lens, I thought I'd ask if it's even feasible.

QUESTION: any experience with a T/S lens for simultaneously focusing on a near and far object that are lined up (the near in front of the far) ?

Thanks for anything you can share.

A tilt shift will tilt the plane of focus and therefore allow some near objects and some far objects to be acceptably within focus despite there being no actual change in the depth of field. Depending on the focal length of the lens and the particular distances involved, a tilt-shift lens might therefore be able to do what you require without demanding a narrow aperture setting.

Have you thought about focus stacking? It seems as though you are wanting to photograph a fairly static scene. That could make focus stacking a very workable alternative.


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Feb 28, 2018 22:02 |  #5

IMAGE: http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i63/wiltonw/Principles/tilt%20DOF_zpsxq4qcvfh.jpg

Here is an illustration of the concept of tilt movement. The usual DOF for a conventional lens is represented by the untilted blue dotted rectangle. The camera's focal plane is the rightmost vertical gray rectangle. The untilted lens and the tilted lens are apparent via the illustration. Our targets are three trees, represented by the green arrows, and focus is on the middle tree...let us just assume it has 20' DOF thickness so the front and the rear green arrows are outside the DOF zone.

We see the tilt occurs thru the optical axis of the lens, which is what happens on a Canon tilt lens. When we tilt, the center of FOV looks downward compared to the untilted lens. According to the Schleimpflug principle, there is a optical pivot point which is below the camera. So the plane of focus at the subjects rotates about that pivot point, as does the DOF zone. The DOF zone started as a perfect rectangle, but we see that the DOF of the tilted lens now has a trapezoidal shape. Note how the trees now fall within the (same, but trapezoidal) DOF zone. So more of the ground is within the DOF zone, and all three trees fall -- but only partially, in terms of their height -- within the DOF zone.

So, yes, tilt could increase the amount of ground within the DOF zone, but you could at the same time be hurt by the TALLNESS of objects in the photo.

(BTW this illustration is not meant to be technically absolutely correct, but is intended to convey fundamental concepts behind tilt movement.)

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Mar 01, 2018 08:32 |  #6

Wilt wrote in post #18574861 (external link)
QUOTED IMAGE

So, yes, tilt could increase the amount of ground within the DOF zone, but you could at the same time be hurt by the TALLNESS of objects in the photo.

If the height of the subjects means that there isn't sufficient (tilted) DOF to get both top and bottom in focus, the shift function of the lens may give you a solution. A stitch of a number of shots shifted vertically but all taken at the same tilt angle should get round the 'tallness' issue.

You may run into another issue if the scene includes elements in the near foreground and in the far background ... due to parallax error because the lens is being shifted up and down rather than the sensor down and up (so to speak). That can be avoided but it's another potential complication.

Since you would be in the realm of image-stitching in post once you use both the tilt and the shift functions in this way, it again begs the question of whether it would be more straightforward to bracket for different focus settings and then blend in post.


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Kumsa
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Mar 10, 2018 16:44 |  #7

Ok, this is really helpful feedback. I'll work on focus stacking first, before renting out a T/S lens.

Really appreciate the comments.


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Mar 10, 2018 17:21 |  #8

Kumsa wrote in post #18582147 (external link)
Ok, this is really helpful feedback. I'll work on focus stacking first, before renting out a T/S lens.

Really appreciate the comments.

The 'purist' in me says "go tilt-shift" ... it's true photography. The 'pragmatist' in me says "focus stack" ... everything today is processed, why fight it?


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Mar 30, 2018 02:12 |  #9

T/S can distribute/alter the plane of focus in relation the FOV. But in reality, it does not give you more dof.

Focus stacking if done right, will give you focus thru the whole image and sharper images since you can use the sweet spot of the lens and stack.

Using T/S is better when you want to alter the focus plane but still don't want everything in focus and super sharp.

Focus stacking best when you need a whole object super sharp and don't care if the background and other objects will be super sharp as well.

I use Focus stacking for products and food when I know they will be knocked out in post, and thus need sharp edges to get the best result for masking and dropping in new backgrounds.

Helicon focus works very well for FS, and I use motorized focus or rails for moving the camera/lens, setting up start and finish point and how many shots i want and the system (cognisys) does the rest automatically.


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Jun 17, 2018 19:42 |  #10

Kumsa wrote in post #18582147 (external link)
Ok, this is really helpful feedback. I'll work on focus stacking first, before renting out a T/S lens.

Really appreciate the comments.

I can get a blade of grass in front of the lens in focus and the mountain ten miles away.

About 6 inches ……………………….. minimum focal length .

Yes the image will be sharp.

I have the TS-E 24mm mk 1 and the TS-E 17mm I mainly do product photograph.




  
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Can a TiltShift alter the minimum focus distance to allow a close and a distant object to be sharp ?
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