Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 26 Mar 2018 (Monday) 16:00
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Backdrops - Paper vs Good Fabric vs Bad Fabric

 
icor1031
Senior Member
756 posts
Gallery: 14 photos
Likes: 202
Joined Jan 2015
Post edited 3 months ago by icor1031. (4 edits in all)
     
Mar 26, 2018 16:00 |  #1

Context: I shoot in a small studio, and the entire usable length is roughly 17'. I typically shoot @ f/7.1 with 85mm.

Two questions:

1) How do paper and fabric compare, as far as light/texture is concerned?

2) How would an $80 Savage backdrop compare to my $10 Walmart sheet? (Or, can you suggest a better one? I want solid gray.) Especially:
a) Resistance to and ease of erasing wrinkles and waves, etc.
b) Would gray likely be much closer to actual gray?
c) Would I likely notice any difference in lighting/texture?


Thanks!


(2) Canon 6D || Zeiss Sonnar 135mm f/2 || Zeiss Otus 85mm f/1.4 || Sigma 85mm f/1.4 || Helios 44-2 58mm f/2 || Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art || Canon 24mm f/2.8 || Rokinon 14mm f/2.8 || (2) Eg-S Focusing Screen
Ideal Portraits (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
That's my line!
Avatar
8,470 posts
Gallery: 10 photos
Likes: 1695
Joined Jun 2011
Location: The Uwharrie Mts, NC
     
Mar 26, 2018 16:07 |  #2

All meaningless without knowing what your goals are.

7.1? Are you trying to get everything in focus?

Are you shooting people?

Adults?

Kids?

Headshots?

Groups?

Product?

Abstract?

...


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
icor1031
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
756 posts
Gallery: 14 photos
Likes: 202
Joined Jan 2015
Post edited 3 months ago by icor1031.
     
Mar 26, 2018 16:11 |  #3

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18594536 (external link)
All meaningless without knowing what your goals are.

...

No groups, products or abstract. Yes to all the others.
Never full length, unless they're on the floor (or smaller children.)

I shoot 7.1 because it's sharper, because I want most of the subject in focus, and to eliminate ambient light.

Examples:

https://www.flickr.com​/photos/129721943@N08/ (external link)


(2) Canon 6D || Zeiss Sonnar 135mm f/2 || Zeiss Otus 85mm f/1.4 || Sigma 85mm f/1.4 || Helios 44-2 58mm f/2 || Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art || Canon 24mm f/2.8 || Rokinon 14mm f/2.8 || (2) Eg-S Focusing Screen
Ideal Portraits (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
That's my line!
Avatar
8,470 posts
Gallery: 10 photos
Likes: 1695
Joined Jun 2011
Location: The Uwharrie Mts, NC
Post edited 3 months ago by Left Handed Brisket.
     
Mar 26, 2018 16:28 |  #4

icor1031 wrote in post #18594530 (external link)
Context: I shoot in a small studio, and the entire usable length is roughly 17'. I typically shoot @ f/7.1 with 85mm.

Two questions:

1) How do paper and fabric compare, as far as light/texture is concerned?

2) How would an $80 Savage backdrop compare to my $10 Walmart sheet? (Or, can you suggest a better one? I want solid gray.) Especially:
a) Resistance to and ease of erasing wrinkles and waves, etc.
b) Would gray likely be much closer to actual gray?
c) Would I likely notice any difference in lighting/texture?


Thanks!

1) paper is my preferred because I have no patience for wrinkles and look for a "flat" surface. I don't think you need to stop down so much, but if you do, fabric is going to be very difficult to deal with.

2) savage fabric? Or paper? Like I said, I'm a fan of paper. It is much more durable than you might think.

a) lately I've been breaking "rules" with my paper and am happy to not have seen any problems with the shorter rolls. Longer/heavier rolls are a different story.

b) you mean neutral? Probably, depending on the color paper bought.

c) yes

For non-full length shots, do you want it flat grey corner to corner for every shot?


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
icor1031
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
756 posts
Gallery: 14 photos
Likes: 202
Joined Jan 2015
Post edited 3 months ago by icor1031. (3 edits in all)
     
Mar 26, 2018 16:33 |  #5

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18594551 (external link)
For non-full length shots, do you want it flat grey corner to corner for every shot?

You said yes to C. In what way? How will the look differ?

Regarding corner to corner:
The backdrop itself, yes. But, I want to add backlighting with my flash - and not equal brightness throughout. Like in most of my pictures.


(2) Canon 6D || Zeiss Sonnar 135mm f/2 || Zeiss Otus 85mm f/1.4 || Sigma 85mm f/1.4 || Helios 44-2 58mm f/2 || Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art || Canon 24mm f/2.8 || Rokinon 14mm f/2.8 || (2) Eg-S Focusing Screen
Ideal Portraits (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
That's my line!
Avatar
8,470 posts
Gallery: 10 photos
Likes: 1695
Joined Jun 2011
Location: The Uwharrie Mts, NC
     
Mar 26, 2018 18:11 |  #6

I am bandwidth limited at this time and haven't checked your Flickr pics.

Backlighting is having the light behind the subject super bright, like the sunset behind the subject. In a studio situation you would b able to control backlighting.

You want to control the background light relative to the subject?


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
icor1031
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
756 posts
Gallery: 14 photos
Likes: 202
Joined Jan 2015
     
Mar 26, 2018 22:28 |  #7

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18594603 (external link)
I am bandwidth limited at this time and haven't checked your Flickr pics.

Backlighting is having the light behind the subject super bright, like the sunset behind the subject. In a studio situation you would b able to control backlighting.

You want to control the background light relative to the subject?

Sorry, background light. I've made that mistake before, and it irritates me when I do.

The light I cast directly on the backdrop.


(2) Canon 6D || Zeiss Sonnar 135mm f/2 || Zeiss Otus 85mm f/1.4 || Sigma 85mm f/1.4 || Helios 44-2 58mm f/2 || Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art || Canon 24mm f/2.8 || Rokinon 14mm f/2.8 || (2) Eg-S Focusing Screen
Ideal Portraits (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
ksbal
Goldmember
Avatar
2,325 posts
Gallery: 269 photos
Best ofs: 9
Likes: 1559
Joined Sep 2010
Location: N.E. Kansas
     
Mar 27, 2018 09:21 |  #8

icor1031 wrote in post #18594530 (external link)
Context: I shoot in a small studio, and the entire usable length is roughly 17'. I typically shoot @ f/7.1 with 85mm.

Two questions:

1) How do paper and fabric compare, as far as light/texture is concerned?

2) How would an $80 Savage backdrop compare to my $10 Walmart sheet? (Or, can you suggest a better one? I want solid gray.) Especially:
a) Resistance to and ease of erasing wrinkles and waves, etc.
b) Would gray likely be much closer to actual gray?
c) Would I likely notice any difference in lighting/texture?


Thanks!

The answer to 1 and 2 entirely depend on how close your subject is to your background.

The difference in texture/quality is more when it comes into focus. if you keep both savage and walmart sheet out of focus.. and it's one color, and both don't have wrinkles.. it's a moot point. but how long it lasts and keeping wrinkles out all depends on any number of factors (stored or left up? carted around folded or can be rolled up? etc)

b gray staying gray is a factor of color calibration - shooting custom white balance with some sort of standard is the way to keep that gray the right color of gray.

Paper shines when you have a solid set up and can make a sweep for no wrinkles - like your sitting pictures would be much cleaner. But it also will have footprints you will have to tear off and reset the paper, and eventually use it up. Paper is a pain to haul around.

the Savage bg would likely wrinkle less and be more portable, and last longer than the walmart sheet or the paper.

The background light is a whole issue onto itself, and independent of the background used.


YN622 English User Guide/Manual by Clive
https://drive.google.c​om …Ig0gMMzZFaDVlZ1​VNTE0/view (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Angmo
looks like I picked a bad week to give up halucinagens
Avatar
833 posts
Gallery: 22 photos
Likes: 563
Joined Dec 2015
Location: AZ-USA
Post edited 3 months ago by Angmo. (2 edits in all)
     
Mar 27, 2018 10:48 |  #9

I’ve had some good experiences with synthetic backgrounds. It’s from katebackdrops. Easy to work with and to me, the textures are pleasing:


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.


Nikons, Rolleiflexes, Elinchroms, Billinghams

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
icor1031
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
756 posts
Gallery: 14 photos
Likes: 202
Joined Jan 2015
     
Mar 27, 2018 16:43 |  #10

https://savageuniversa​l.com …ess-paper-vs-black-vinyl/ (external link)

This is what I'm referring to with a difference in material in how the background light looks. Vinyl gives a different look than paper; so, how does paper compare to fabric?


(2) Canon 6D || Zeiss Sonnar 135mm f/2 || Zeiss Otus 85mm f/1.4 || Sigma 85mm f/1.4 || Helios 44-2 58mm f/2 || Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art || Canon 24mm f/2.8 || Rokinon 14mm f/2.8 || (2) Eg-S Focusing Screen
Ideal Portraits (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Angmo
looks like I picked a bad week to give up halucinagens
Avatar
833 posts
Gallery: 22 photos
Likes: 563
Joined Dec 2015
Location: AZ-USA
     
Mar 27, 2018 16:55 |  #11

icor1031 wrote in post #18595193 (external link)
https://savageuniversa​l.com …ess-paper-vs-black-vinyl/ (external link)

This is what I'm referring to with a difference in material in how the background light looks. Vinyl gives a different look than paper; so, how does paper compare to fabric?

Kinda can’t answer this q.

It depends. Exposure, positioning, distances.. Ive got vinyl, paper and cloth whites. Exposing them can make them all the same. White. Underexposing will be shades of grey to black. It really depends on a bunch of variables.


Nikons, Rolleiflexes, Elinchroms, Billinghams

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
ksbal
Goldmember
Avatar
2,325 posts
Gallery: 269 photos
Best ofs: 9
Likes: 1559
Joined Sep 2010
Location: N.E. Kansas
     
Mar 28, 2018 08:30 as a reply to  @ icor1031's post |  #12

Maybe a better question is how do you want the background to look? What are you going for, and then easier to say what might do that look that you are looking for.
smooth, even, easy to add gels or gradient - paper.


YN622 English User Guide/Manual by Clive
https://drive.google.c​om …Ig0gMMzZFaDVlZ1​VNTE0/view (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
F2Bthere
Senior Member
Avatar
911 posts
Likes: 392
Joined Oct 2015
     
Apr 10, 2018 17:33 |  #13

If you don't do full length, it doesn't need to be on the ground or get stepped upon.

Paper is more forgiving than the $10 sheet if you want smooth and featureless. If you can't notice wrinkles and the sheet is out of focus, you will probably be fine. But if it gets swept to the side and has ripples in it like a curtain, they will show up.

All the studio images in my Instagram are taken with the same gray cloth background. It has a texture painted on it (not prominent but not invisible) and I often have folds in it like a curtain, such as here:

https://www.instagram.​com …en-by=storyinpictures_com (external link)

And here:

https://www.instagram.​com …en-by=storyinpictures_com (external link)

As you will notice, most look like different colors. I have not changed the texture but I have changed the color.

Obviously I am using the texture.

Background Paper is similar to cloth in that it has a fine texture (cloth texture can vary). Paper reflects light in a more consistent way (it isn't "reflective" like plastic, it is more muted). Cloth can reflect light less consistently across its surface due to the weave, the materials used to make it, how the cloth itself is unevenly positioned unless it is stretched taught and how consistently opaque it it. Neutral gray paper is about as neutral of a surface as you will get.

Do you need that level of consistency? I have no idea. It's kind of like asking how important color consistency is in strobes. If you are doing catalog products, it will make your life easier. For my portrait work, the incredible color consistency level my strobes achieve is probably a waste :).


C&C always welcomed...
On my images, of course, and on my words as well--as long as it's constructive :).
https://www.instagram.​com/storyinpictures_co​m/ (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
icor1031
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
756 posts
Gallery: 14 photos
Likes: 202
Joined Jan 2015
Post edited 3 months ago by icor1031.
     
Apr 11, 2018 22:04 |  #14

F2Bthere wrote in post #18604150 (external link)
If you don't do full length, it doesn't need to be on the ground or get stepped upon.

Paper is more forgiving than the $10 sheet if you want smooth and featureless. If you can't notice wrinkles and the sheet is out of focus, you will probably be fine. But if it gets swept to the side and has ripples in it like a curtain, they will show up.

All the studio images in my Instagram are taken with the same gray cloth background. It has a texture painted on it (not prominent but not invisible) and I often have folds in it like a curtain, such as here:

https://www.instagram.​com …en-by=storyinpictures_com (external link)

And here:

https://www.instagram.​com …en-by=storyinpictures_com (external link)

As you will notice, most look like different colors. I have not changed the texture but I have changed the color.

Obviously I am using the texture.

Background Paper is similar to cloth in that it has a fine texture (cloth texture can vary). Paper reflects light in a more consistent way (it isn't "reflective" like plastic, it is more muted). Cloth can reflect light less consistently across its surface due to the weave, the materials used to make it, how the cloth itself is unevenly positioned unless it is stretched taught and how consistently opaque it it. Neutral gray paper is about as neutral of a surface as you will get.

Do you need that level of consistency? I have no idea. It's kind of like asking how important color consistency is in strobes. If you are doing catalog products, it will make your life easier. For my portrait work, the incredible color consistency level my strobes achieve is probably a waste :).

Good data! And since making this thread, I had a thought: get a second backdrop stand, and put paper on that one. Nearly all my shots are upright, so this would stay in place most of the time. When I need shots on the floor, just remove the paper and shoot the cloth that's already behind/under it.

And I think I would be very happy with the improved gray consistency.


(2) Canon 6D || Zeiss Sonnar 135mm f/2 || Zeiss Otus 85mm f/1.4 || Sigma 85mm f/1.4 || Helios 44-2 58mm f/2 || Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art || Canon 24mm f/2.8 || Rokinon 14mm f/2.8 || (2) Eg-S Focusing Screen
Ideal Portraits (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
F2Bthere
Senior Member
Avatar
911 posts
Likes: 392
Joined Oct 2015
     
Apr 12, 2018 03:13 |  #15

icor1031 wrote in post #18605018 (external link)
Good data! And since making this thread, I had a thought: get a second backdrop stand, and put paper on that one. Nearly all my shots are upright, so this would stay in place most of the time. When I need shots on the floor, just remove the paper and shoot the cloth that's already behind/under it.

And I think I would be very happy with the improved gray consistency.

The floor doesn't have to look like the backdrop. It didn't in classical paintings and it doesn't in Vanity Fair (I'm looking at you, Annie).

I have been using a patterned red and gold curtain on the floor which looks like a carpet...


C&C always welcomed...
On my images, of course, and on my words as well--as long as it's constructive :).
https://www.instagram.​com/storyinpictures_co​m/ (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

3,215 views & 5 likes for this thread
Backdrops - Paper vs Good Fabric vs Bad Fabric
FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is NormanStormin
466 guests, 369 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 6430, that happened on Dec 03, 2017

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.