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Thread started 03 Apr 2018 (Tuesday) 14:13
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Picture Help Ideas...

 
recrisp
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Apr 03, 2018 14:13 |  #1

I floated this by the Bird Image Forum and got semi-mixed reviews, so I would like your help, if you would.

The idea behind what I would like to see happen is this, for those that think they may need help in Photoshop and LightRoom, to make their images better looking, to learn about what is the best way to make your images to look better, and so on.
This will NOT be a place that is just teaches , but a place for learning, in other words, I for one won't be teaching how to do Photoshop, but I know some stuff, so I may know a way for you to find a way that benefits you and your images. I will not be doing any lessons on how to do this, or that, (maybe we will occasionally) but we will post links to YouTube and possibly help with suggestions.

Personally, as of right now I would like to see a LONE THREAD about each of the subjects that we need to brush up on. For instance, a thread about Saturation, to learn how much is too much.
A thread about Masking, so that your sharpening is not in places that you don't want it, that kind of thing.

One that is about Halos, a lot of people don't realize that they have GIANT halos around their images, mostly that is due to their monitors are not calibrated, because what you see, and we see, are two completely different things sometimes. (I know at work we would calibrate out machines weekly, it's that critical in places that correct images as their business, and still, none of the monitors were all identical, but they were close)

We can't do this in the Bird Image Forum because it disrupts the flow of things, so we come here to TALK about it, you can post images that you have questions on though, when necessary.
Right now in this particular thread I would like for you ALL to talk about it, suggest what you would like to see, after a short period of time I will make a list of what topics you would like to concentrate on, or whatever it is that you want to do.

I don't want to just have ONE THREAD about it all, it will get so convoluted that we would not get anywhere at all. That is why I would prefer that we have one thread (for now) until we know what it is that we are doing, then go form there.
If someone here doesn't like the way I am going about this I will step aside and they can take it from there, I don't care at all, I just think that some out there need this.

For instance, I was helping a woman last month with a picture of a moon shot, she was wondering why it it didn't look like all of the other people. I asked her if she would like to see the picture that I made some correction to, She said, "Yes", so I sent it and she liked it what I showed her. She didn't think that she could do it, after a couple of days this woman was using Curves and made a moon picture of hers look as good as I could ever do, she was a newbie too. She is making headway and she says that she still doesn't know what she is doing half the time, and I said that I usually don't either. :)

So may point is, if you want to improve your shots, come into the thread (or whatever thread we will have) and we can talk about it.

It would be REALLY helpful if the person that asks for help lets us know what camera/lens/settings they used in the shot in question, we need to know what we are looking at. This shouldn't be a place where one asks what kind of bird this is, it's all about how you get to where you got, and how to improve in that same image.

One thing I think would help, it might not work, but it sounds like it could, we would have ONLY ONE PERSON per day, or until that person's question has been fulfilled, that way we won't have too many people asking all kinds of questions.

If this seems like it would work, let me know, if you don't think that this will work, PLEASE state why and be helpful, just saying, "It won't work", without explaining the why is not helpful.

There will have to be RULES, not hard and fast ones, but there has to be some sort of structure so we can keep this together.
The RULES would be the kind like the above, ONLY ONE PERSON per day/or, type stuff, not if you aren't tall enough you can't play! :)

So, if you will, PLEASE tell me what you want in as short of a post as you can, so we can get this going, explain in detail the WHAT, the WHY, the HOW, and so on.

CRITIQUE (This is VERY important, if you only want to have people say, "I like it!", that is fine, but if you want to know WHY they like it, we can do that too. If we critique it only helps you to realize what might need improving)

Monitors (Maybe someone here is a master at calibrating monitors, they can let us all know how they go about it and we can go from there)

Halos (Halos are caused by a lot of things, but mostly from what I have seen is people overdo a certain setting in LightRoom, using too much Sharpness over the entire image, and of course, their monitor may be needing calibrating)

Masks (Masks can help you localize your sharpness, meaning, instead of having a halo around your entire image, now you wouldn't, learning Masks is a good way to make your image a lot better looking, and it's not hard)

Over-saturation (This is pretty common too, some people love that look, and I see some that I love too, but mostly it could be their monitors not calibrated or they just don't realize that the images looks too far gone. I am guilty myself, I don't overdo it to a point that people laugh, [Do they?]but I like to make colorful images just like most of us do)

Blown-out Whites (This is where the weather being too bright out or overexposure can blow your whites so they are completely white, no information left in that area to make the details come back. Usually, if it's not too bad that can be remedied, there are ways that you can bring back that affected area and it can be saved)

Sharpening (Selective sharpening is a good thing, there are ways that you can do it without buying a third party filter, but I would suggest that you do buy one, they are REALLY good now days, this still involves Masks though)

Rule of Thirds (Some believe in this, some don't, I do. If you want your shot to be its best, this is (IMO) one of the easiest ways to do that. There are reasons that professional photographers and painters use this rule, it's not a must, but it can make a difference)

When replying to someone on this, please use the QUOTE option to your bottom RIGHT of the person you want to reply to, that will help keep things in order.

Yeah, I am always too wordy, I can't help that, but maybe we can help you with stuff, in an informal way, and go as far as you want to take this, I am not in this to get famous, gets LIKES, or anything negative at all, I am a helper-type person, I can't help it, it gets me into a lot of trouble sometimes helping those that abuse it, but I still try. If at any time someone wants to take over, everyone will have a say, this is for you, not me, and that's about all I have to say on all of this, at least for now. :)

Help me start this and we can make it up as we go along, I sure don't have an answer for everything, although my wife will disagree! :)

Thanks for getting this far!

Randy


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Apr 03, 2018 14:47 |  #2

Just my €0.2:

If those items are not specific to bird-photography then you could start threads in other suitable forums, like:

For computer monitors we have "Computers" https://photography-on-the.net/forum/forumdis​play.php?f=129 or "RAW, Post Processing & Printing" https://photography-on-the.net/forum/forumdis​play.php?f=18


For halos, masking, sharpening etc there is "RAW, Post Processing & Printing" https://photography-on-the.net/forum/forumdis​play.php?f=18

For composition discussion" General Photography Talk" https://photography-on-the.net/forum/forumdis​play.php?f=13 might work fine.

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recrisp
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Post edited over 5 years ago by recrisp.
     
Apr 03, 2018 16:00 |  #3

Pekka wrote in post #18599578 (external link)
Just my €0.2:

If those items are not specific to bird-photography then you could start threads in other suitable forums, like:

For computer monitors we have "Computers" https://photography-on-the.net/forum/forumdis​play.php?f=129 or "RAW, Post Processing & Printing" https://photography-on-the.net/forum/forumdis​play.php?f=18


For halos, masking, sharpening etc there is "RAW, Post Processing & Printing" https://photography-on-the.net/forum/forumdis​play.php?f=18

For composition discussion" General Photography Talk" https://photography-on-the.net/forum/forumdis​play.php?f=13 might work fine.

As I was writing this I wondered about how this was going to go over.

I knew that there is scattered places that ALL of this is talked about, but I was hoping that it could all be in one place, it just makes it easier for those that need it to grasp.

Thank you, Pekka, I appreciate it, and really, I really do understand that there needs to be order.
Would it be O.K. to have a common place to have links to ALL of the things that were listed in BIRD TALK? If not then I guess this will be a no-go.

Thanks again!

Randy


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Apr 03, 2018 16:17 |  #4

I rather like the idea of keeping this bird/wildlife specific, as I don't seem to have the same issues with portraits, landscapes, or still life.
I think that much of my issue is working an image for too long, dithering back and forth trying to decide what looks best to me, then returning to the scene of the crime the next day with fresh eyes to find I'd overworked or underworked the file...missing the sweet spot where the image works best.
I probably work better when I limit my processing time.


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Apr 03, 2018 16:38 |  #5

recrisp wrote in post #18599608 (external link)
Would it be O.K. to have a common place to have links to ALL of the things that were listed in BIRD TALK?

Of course it is O.K. :) You could start a thread with a resource list for bird photography related issues above, and build there a list of threads, searches and other links on each topic. I bet that would be useful for many.

There is already https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=518554, you could either start new one
or contribute to that. Maybe it is better to start new ones for specific subjects. Your call.


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Apr 03, 2018 17:26 |  #6

Pekka wrote in post #18599625 (external link)
Of course it is O.K. :) You could start a thread with a resource list for bird photography related issues above, and build there a list of threads, searches and other links on each topic. I bet that would be useful for many.

There is already https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=518554, you could either start new one
or contribute to that. Maybe it is better to start new ones for specific subjects. Your call.

I'll see what comes out of this and try and figure it out the best way for everyone, link-wise.

Thank you again, Pekka, and while I have you here, I want to thank you for the upgrade, I actually like it all! The last time you upgraded I couldn't say that, but after a week I was in agreement with it all. :)

Randy


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Apr 03, 2018 17:35 |  #7

Well, as you can probably see, the plan has changed, I am not sure what I will be doing right now, I'm trying to think of a plan,
If anyone has a plan or an idea as to how to go about this, please step in, searching on POTN and getting stuff together is not my forte' really, it messes with my ADHD, so I don't know what the first step should be, I do really, I guess, it's just that I'll just have to regroup my thoughts.

I understand 100% what Pekka means, and I already knew that, to be honest, but, I kind of thought/hoped that we could get a few people that 'know stuff' and help others by answering their questions, one on one, it's kind of hard to do when the links are scattered, at least that is how it looks to me. I mean, yeah, gather the links and go from there, but that wasn't what I was striving for, the cohesiveness is lost in a way. :)

Anyway, that's that, suggestions and any kind of ideas where to go from here would be really appreciated.

Randy


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Apr 03, 2018 17:49 |  #8

Well, I already followed this thread. I think it will be helpful and useful to keep it here for birding in particular.


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recrisp
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Apr 03, 2018 18:47 |  #9

Michael Rumsey wrote in post #18599616 (external link)
I rather like the idea of keeping this bird/wildlife specific, as I don't seem to have the same issues with portraits, landscapes, or still life.
I think that much of my issue is working an image for too long, dithering back and forth trying to decide what looks best to me, then returning to the scene of the crime the next day with fresh eyes to find I'd overworked or underworked the file...missing the sweet spot where the image works best.
I probably work better when I limit my processing time.

I like the idea of the thread being specific too, but, rules are rules, plus, there is a reason that we just can't post stuff over and over, it adds up on the server, and I personally don't pay for this stuff here. :)
So, I definitely understand though, your thoughts and Pekka having to do that, in a perfect world maybe, but. :)

Getting into a ritual is the best way to go about correcting your images, keeping at it like that and it becomes second nature, that way you won't feel like you need to overwork your images. At least that is the way I do it. When you feel as though you have it down, you kind of know it. It's like having a 'style', you can't really learn that, it just happens one day. I was always envious of people that had their own style, then one day I caught a glimpse of mine, I didn't care for it particularly, but I had one. :)

We all probably work better with less time spent...

Thanks for replying!

Randy


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Apr 03, 2018 18:50 |  #10

Phoenixkh wrote in post #18599659 (external link)
Well, I already followed this thread. I think it will be helpful and useful to keep it here for birding in particular.

Don't go anywhere, who knows what will become of this.
I agree, keeping it all in one place is the way I would like, but as I said above, that is not always possible, so we'll just see what happens.
One of the reasons why I even brought this idea up is that nobody either knows how, or they don't want to spend all of the time necessary looking it all up in various places/forums, so I thought a one-stop shopping area was a good idea, and I still do, but it's not really feasible.

Oh well, maybe something will come to mind and we can figure this out in a way that it works and it won't seem so complicated.

Thanks, for the reply!

Randy


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Apr 03, 2018 20:15 |  #11

Subscribed. However this thread goes down, I am sure I will benefit from the topics since I am clueless about most of what you listed.




  
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Apr 03, 2018 20:21 |  #12

Sibil wrote in post #18599742 (external link)
Subscribed. However this thread goes down, I am sure I will benefit from the topics since I am clueless about most of what you listed.

Thanks for subscribing, I hope that it turns out to be a good idea. heheh
It's still early in this thing, so I am at a loss of what to do right now because I am not familiar with what can be done, and what can't, I worked too hard today and I am really tired so my brain's not working very well right now, but maybe tomorrow's a new day.

Thanks, Sibil,

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Apr 04, 2018 04:22 |  #13

Randy, I've subscribed to follow this thread. I don't have Lightroom and Photoshop, but only Photoshop Elements. But I hope to learn something here for using it in PE.




  
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Apr 04, 2018 05:29 |  #14

Lyn2011 wrote in post #18599888 (external link)
..... but only Photoshop Elements.

Same here. I only have Photoshop Elements 12.




  
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Apr 04, 2018 07:45 |  #15

Lyn2011 wrote in post #18599888 (external link)
Randy, I've subscribed to follow this thread. I don't have Lightroom and Photoshop, but only Photoshop Elements. But I hope to learn something here for using it in PE.

Lyn, I personally have no experience in Elements, but from what I understand it is set up just like Photoshop, so it probably won't be a problem when you are trying to learn things.


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