Are you old enough to do these things?

joeseph wrote in post #18920999
speaking of old computer stuff, among other things, I used to fix these for a living - anyone know what they are?:

Hosted photo: posted by joeseph in
./showthread.php?p=189​20999&i=i166263515
forum: The Lounge

(shot taken about a month ago)

It looks like a typewriter on steroids.

joeseph wrote in post #18920999
speaking of old computer stuff, among other things, I used to fix these for a living - anyone know what they are?:

Hosted photo: posted by joeseph in
./showthread.php?p=189​20999&i=i166263515
forum: The Lounge

(shot taken about a month ago)

Paper tape punch machine?

Gregsiem wrote in post #18920992
In more understandable terms....it consists of control statements that allow you to run a program, or string together multiple programs, to make a job. Eg. Run a program to do an extract, followed by one to do a sort, followed by one to do a report.

Each step has the program name and then a set of statements that define what the generic names in the program actually refer to in the actual implementation. Eg. If the program says “ read from payroll”, it has a statement that defines ‘payroll’ as file_name of payroll is payroll.july.details.v​1

And using an analogy, JCL is to IBM DOS and MVS as batch file and PowerShell are to Microsoft DOS and Windows, and Automator is to Apple Mac OS X.

PacAce wrote in post #18921045
And using an analogy, JCL is to IBM DOS and MVS as batch file and PowerShell are to Microsoft DOS and Windows, and Automator is to Apple Mac OS X.

Huh?? What did he just say????

Inspeqtor wrote in post #18921127
Huh?? What did he just say????

These techie people, honestly....

Gregsiem wrote in post #18920992
In more understandable terms....it consists of control statements that allow you to run a program, or string together multiple programs, to make a job. Eg. Run a program to do an extract, followed by one to do a sort, followed by one to do a report.

All right, then. Is JCL analogous to this list? "(1) Assemble items to be laundered. (2) Spot-treat any stains. (3a) Open washer door. (3b) Put items in washer. (3c) Close washer door. (4) Select settings. (5) Add detergent. (6) Activate washer. (7) At end of wash cycle, transfer washer contents to dryer [Includes: open door, etc.]. (8) Check lint filter . . ."

This list works by being processed through a human mind and the corresponding human body. That's where the magic is. A person understands the instructions and performs the steps as physical actions. Without a person, the instructions won't get anyone's washing done. But how do "control statements," sequences of words and abbreviations on a screen, make something happen? That is, what are the mechanics of this operation?

joeseph wrote in post #18920995
or just "computer stuff"

Yeah, there you go!

I think some of what we're talking about belongs in a thread called "Are you young enough to do these things or even to have heard of them?"

OhLook wrote in post #18921133
All right, then. Is JCL analogous to this list? "(1) Assemble items to be laundered. (2) Spot-treat any stains. (3a) Open washer door. (3b) Put items in washer. (3c) Close washer door. (4) Select settings. (5) Add detergent. (6) Activate washer. (7) At end of wash cycle, transfer washer contents to dryer [Includes: open door, etc.]. (8) Check lint filter . . ."

This list works by being processed through a human mind and the corresponding human body. That's where the magic is. A person understands the instructions and performs the steps as physical actions. Without a person, the instructions won't get anyone's washing done. But how do "control statements," sequences of words and abbreviations on a screen, make something happen? That is, what are the mechanics of this operation?

I think your analogy is spot on.
In your example, you are the JCL (job control list).
You run through, step by step, and initiate an action.

In the computer world, the computer runs through the list and for each step, it loads and runs the program that will perform the action.
Often , it will need parameters passed to it providing more details on how exactly to run the program eg: where to find the data.

In your example, you do exactly the same thing when you select the hot/warm/cold parameters for the washer and specify a long, short or medium cycle as duration parameters. Those are the parameters you are passing the washers program. You then hit 'activate' (ie "run") and the program runs.

OhLook wrote in post #18921133
All right, then. Is JCL analogous to this list? "(1) Assemble items to be laundered. (2) Spot-treat any stains. (3a) Open washer door. (3b) Put items in washer. (3c) Close washer door. (4) Select settings. (5) Add detergent. (6) Activate washer. (7) At end of wash cycle, transfer washer contents to dryer [Includes: open door, etc.]. (8) Check lint filter . . ."

This list works by being processed through a human mind and the corresponding human body. That's where the magic is. A person understands the instructions and performs the steps as physical actions. Without a person, the instructions won't get anyone's washing done. But how do "control statements," sequences of words and abbreviations on a screen, make something happen? That is, what are the mechanics of this operation?

Yeah, there you go!

I think some of what we're talking about belongs in a thread called "Are you young enough to do these things or even to have heard of them?"

LOL!!!

Inspeqtor wrote in post #18921184
LOL!!!

Actually, not quite true.
If you are old enough to have used a Brownie Box or Instamatic as your first camera, or been told that children are to be seen but not heard, then, assuming you were in the IT industry in the old days, this might have been meaningful.
I suspect it is the 'newer generation' that would think JCL is gobbledegook.

Gregsiem wrote in post #18921190

Inspeqtor wrote in post #18921184
LOL!!!

Actually, not quite true.
If you are old enough to have used a Brownie Box or Instamatic as your first camera, or been told that children are to be seen but not heard, then, assuming you were in the IT industry in the old days, this might have been meaningful.
I suspect it is the 'newer generation' that would think JCL is gobbledegook.

In my mind OhLook's comments were quite comical. That is why I did the LOL.

Charles, I didn't mean to be funny. It's nice that you found some entertainment value there, though. All that talk about laundry was an attempt to find out whether I understood this job-control thing, or understood it partly, or got it all wrong.

This is what I still don't understand:

Gregsiem, you answered that the computer does it. But how?

Humans: mental activity and muscular action
Conventional machines: gears, levers, sensors, valves, and so forth
Computers: ones and zeroes, but there must be more than that

OhLook wrote in post #18921215
Computers: ones and zeroes, but there must be more than that

A human programmer writes the instructions for a computer in a programming language which is usually readable by a human. Today, these languages are named things like Python, C, Java.

There is a computer program which reads these programs and compiles them ie it turns them into machine readable code that the computer executes.

A computer has a set of data registers and operands.
This is how a simple program might look:

my_answer = 1 + 3

This will compile into some code that the computer will execute. In the computer's architecture it might wrk like this:
load 1 into register 1
load 3 into register 2
add register 1 to register 2
assign register 2 to my_answer

You will have heard people refer to the speed of a computer and what that is referring to, is how many computational cycles it can handle in a given time cycle. During that cycle, it will loop through the program instructions, executing the machine code, one line at a time. Some of these operands might be arithmetical, some operational such as reading from a file or writing to a display.

At the end of the days, it all comes down to ones and zeroes that are being loaded into registers and having operations performed against them.

joeseph wrote in post #18920999
speaking of old computer stuff, among other things, I used to fix these for a living - anyone know what they are?:

Hosted photo: posted by joeseph in
./showthread.php?p=189​20999&i=i166263515
forum: The Lounge

(shot taken about a month ago)

Considering there are only three rows of keys, it looks like a Baudot teletype machine. The box to the left is about the right size to be a TD (tape reader for Baudot paper tape).

I've seen lots of Baudot TTYs, even had a full TTY setup on the air (I'm an amateur radio operator), but I've never seen that model.

-js

PacAce wrote in post #18921030
Paper tape punch machine?

hole in one, so to speak!

I'm staying out of this. I'll be back when the smoke clears.