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Thread started 14 Apr 2018 (Saturday) 13:21
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A question of ethics, I think.

 
Bassat
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Apr 14, 2018 13:21 |  #1

About two weeks ago, I took delivery of a Canon Elan 7 from an E-Bay seller. The seller listed it as, "Excellent condition, and excellent working condition." I tested it upon receipt, and found the AF-selection button (rear, top-right) to be non-functional, as such it is ALWAYS in AUTO-AF (all points selected). Considering the listed condition, I contacted the seller, and he immediately refunded my entire purchase price, including shipping. He also told me to keep the camera; it was not worth the trouble of re-shipping and re-listing. Very generous.

I threw the camera in a closet, intending to donate to a local HS Art department (everything else works fine). Today I got to playing with it, and discovered a combination of Custom Functions that allows me to select any INDIVIDUAL AF-point. The broken button still doesn't work, but I can use a camera where I can select any individual point. I cannot select AUTO-AF (all-points), ever. Like I said, the broken button is still broken.

My moral dilemma is, I can use this camera as it is. Should I return the refund? Had it been properly described in the listing, I would not have purchased it. I can't use AUTO-AF, but I would never do that anyway. When I thought it was ONLY useful for AUTO-AF, I sought and obtained a refund. I now have a camera I can put to its intended use, even considering the broken button. Do I give this seller his money back, or not?


Tom

  
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gonzogolf
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Apr 14, 2018 13:42 |  #2

The camera still doesn't function as advertised due to the broken button. So at best the body would only retain a portion of its value at best. Those were the known facts when the original seller declined it's return, and they are still true. That you have found a workaround changes none of the above. I think you should enjoy it with no guilty feelings. If you do t feel that way you could always send the seller a partial payment with a note explaining that you have found some usefulness in the camera and feel partial compensation is fair.




  
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Wilt
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Post edited 3 months ago by Wilt.
     
Apr 14, 2018 13:44 |  #3

In view of the fact that the camera is deemed (by you) to be 'useable', what you could (but not obligated by code of ethics) choose to do is to offer the original seller an amount lower than the original sales price, for goods which had (at the time of purchase) 'hidden' damage. That is entirely up to you, as a 'pay it forward' admission out of 'honesty' and the fact that the camera is not truly unusable.


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number ­ six
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Apr 14, 2018 13:47 |  #4

Bassat wrote in post #18606763 (external link)
Had it been properly described in the listing, I would not have purchased it.

There you are, then.

You could explain the situation to the seller and ask him if he wants it back, knowing this new information, if you want to go the extra mile.

-js


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Bassat
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Post edited 3 months ago by Bassat.
     
Apr 14, 2018 13:50 |  #5

number six wrote in post #18606786 (external link)
There you are, then.

You could explain the situation to the seller and ask him if he wants it back, knowing this new information, if you want to go the extra mile.

-js

Aha! An option I had not considered.


Tom

  
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teekay
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Apr 14, 2018 18:19 |  #6

1. It's an old camera, not worth megabucks. Other features may soon pack up.
2. The seller did the right thing and probably feels good about it, so the transaction is history.
3. The fact that you now find it usable for your purposes is irrelevant - it's still a faulty camera.

Everybody did the right thing, so use it happily and, if something else packs up, pass the camera on free with full disclosure.




  
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Bassat
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Apr 15, 2018 05:15 |  #7

teekay wrote in post #18606920 (external link)
1. It's an old camera, not worth megabucks. Other features may soon pack up.
2. The seller did the right thing and probably feels good about it, so the transaction is history.
3. The fact that you now find it usable for your purposes is irrelevant - it's still a faulty camera.

Everybody did the right thing, so use it happily and, if something else packs up, pass the camera on free with full disclosure.

Ok, well, the DOF preview button gave up this morning. I rarely use that, so right now, the camera still works for me. However, I don't know what is going to fail next, or when. I'm happy to just shoot it until something critical happens. Thanks for the input, all.


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Perfectly ­ Frank
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Apr 16, 2018 13:38 |  #8

Bassat wrote in post #18606763 (external link)
I contacted the seller, and he immediately refunded my entire purchase price, including shipping. He also told me to keep the camera; it was not worth the trouble of re-shipping and re-listing. Very generous.

For that alone I'd give the seller positive FB.


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daleg
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Apr 16, 2018 16:38 as a reply to  @ teekay's post |  #9

what you (teakay) said - especially if the seller is a dealer. it's a settled matter. no need to stir it up.

unless - perhaps? - it's an individual seller - in which case you could offer to modify the refund.

I'd be inclined to leave it be - the camera remains not as described.




  
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Bassat
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Apr 16, 2018 16:43 |  #10

Perfectly Frank wrote in post #18607977 (external link)
For that alone I'd give the seller positive FB.

Oh, I most certainly did. No way you could ask for more.

As a sidebar, I just got a new film body in the mail today. Canon EOS T2. It is the last consumer grade film camera Canon released. 1/4000, 1/125 sync, PASM w/bulb, ETTL-II, DOF preview, EC, no FEC (there's always manual). And everything checks out just fine. I got a relatively modern, perfectly working film camera for $14.95 + S&H. I just put some 400 Fujifilm in it. Probably won't get to finish the roll until the weekend. I feel like a kid at Christmas! Man, I'm really easy to please!.


Tom

  
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Bassat
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Apr 16, 2018 16:45 |  #11

daleg wrote in post #18608097 (external link)
what you (teakay) said - especially if the seller is a dealer. it's a settled matter. no need to stir it up.

unless - perhaps? - it's an individual seller - in which case you could offer to modify the refund.

I'd be inclined to leave it be - the camera remains not as described.

I was inclined to return 50% of the purchase price, until the second button gave up the ghost. Now I want to get a roll developed/printed before proceeding, just to make SURE it is working properly.


Tom

  
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daleg
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Apr 16, 2018 17:30 as a reply to  @ Bassat's post |  #12

Tom,

I hadn't at first noticed your comment about the 2nd malfunctioning button. I'm even more inclined to suggest that you have no further ethical observation. just my two cents. bottom line - do what satisfies your sense of fair play.

Dale




  
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Perfectly ­ Frank
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Apr 16, 2018 18:44 |  #13

Bassat wrote in post #18608103 (external link)
Oh, I most certainly did. No way you could ask for more.

As a sidebar, I just got a new film body in the mail today. Canon EOS T2. It is the last consumer grade film camera Canon released. 1/4000, 1/125 sync, PASM w/bulb, ETTL-II, DOF preview, EC, no FEC (there's always manual). And everything checks out just fine. I got a relatively modern, perfectly working film camera for $14.95 + S&H. I just put some 400 Fujifilm in it. Probably won't get to finish the roll until the weekend. I feel like a kid at Christmas! Man, I'm really easy to please!.

I'd glad things worked out for you.
Have fun with your "new" film camera ;-)a

It would be nice to see some photos from you.


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Apr 16, 2018 18:58 |  #14

Perfectly Frank wrote in post #18608167 (external link)
It would be nice to see some photos from you.

.
I wholeheartedly agree!


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"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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Post edited 3 months ago by TeamSpeed. (2 edits in all)
     
Apr 16, 2018 20:27 |  #15

Ethically, the deal was done once the merchandise was received, found to be defective, and the seller issuing a refund for the full amount.

Morally, if you feel that perhaps the seller was entitled to something because it wasn't as defective as you thought upon the ending of the business deal, then talk with the seller and tell the situation. See if they would like some minor amount for the goods, since they gave a full refund out of the gate, I presume they will just say all is good and enjoy the camera.

I think this would solve your initial inquisition about this since you obviously feel like you got something for nothing at this point (which can sometimes be a moral dilemma). Ethically though, you are good. The business deal was completely above board from start to finish.


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A question of ethics, I think.
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