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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 30 Apr 2018 (Monday) 17:40
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persistent mom, thats for sure

 
Hogloff
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May 16, 2018 08:27 |  #46

wyntastr wrote in post #18626647 (external link)
Well, that's not entirely true. The potential customer wanted the hi res file for free, rather than purchase a print from his site.

Are you going to call those deck companies that came out, spent a couple hours laying out a plan, and ask them to email you a copy of their
layout so you and your neighbor can do it yourself?

OP is just bouncing this experience off the members here because that someone is trying to get something for nothing, even though he has options for them. (free lo res files, a full site to purchase prints, etc.) He put in the work, yet someone always seems to want more.
He's just asking opinions and if anyone else has had similar experiences.

The OP never said the customer wanted it for free. He said he offered the file at $200...which is basically saying go away to the customer.

My suggestion is to offer the customer the I age at the same price as the print...you still get a sale and just let the customer make their own prints.

There are many photographers out there selling digital files as that is what many customers want...why limit your customer base by not selling what they want.




  
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Ltdave
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May 16, 2018 17:20 |  #47

Hogloff wrote in post #18626662 (external link)
...He said he offered the file at $200...which is basically saying go away to the customer.

My suggestion is to offer the customer the I age at the same price as the print...

actually i didnt offer it to her for ANY price. i commented that i SHOULD tell her it would be $200...

based on Zenofolio's pricing, if i had offered it to her at what they list for, it would have been much more than the $200.

i didnt set my own pricing. i used what Zenfolio put up as suggestions, since i assume that Zenfolio has more experience in selling prints and other items than i have. And its obvious that had i come here asking for suggestions on what to charge, I would have (in most cases) been told to just give it away...




  
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Wilt
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Post edited 3 months ago by Wilt. (2 edits in all)
     
May 17, 2018 12:52 |  #48

Hogloff wrote in post #18626662 (external link)
There are many photographers out there selling digital files as that is what many customers want...why limit your customer base by not selling what they want.

'Back in the old days', most professionals offered prints at a per-each price initially, and for some period of time following the shoot. For a lot of professionals who got tired of endlessly storing film with the overhead that might entail over decades of jobs, a number of pros might contact former clients and offer to sell the film at some fee after 5 or 10 years (or whenever they felt that revenue from more prints was no longer likely).

Fast forward to the digital photographers...many clients (particularly weddings) pay the photographer to cover the event, perhaps deliver a pre-negotiated album with prints, but then also expect the photographer to deliver digital files to them at the same time, with the final album (or sooner!). This reduces to follow-on revenue that film photographers might depend on to supplement current shoots. It is not unlike the common idea behind digital music...'why should I pay for more copies?" which has eroded musician earnings.

Sad. One of several reasons I would not want to be a working photographer/musician making recordings in these times.


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Hogloff
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May 17, 2018 14:16 |  #49

Ltdave wrote in post #18626915 (external link)
actually i didnt offer it to her for ANY price. i commented that i SHOULD tell her it would be $200...

based on Zenofolio's pricing, if i had offered it to her at what they list for, it would have been much more than the $200.

i didnt set my own pricing. i used what Zenfolio put up as suggestions, since i assume that Zenfolio has more experience in selling prints and other items than i have. And its obvious that had i come here asking for suggestions on what to charge, I would have (in most cases) been told to just give it away...


Wilt wrote in post #18627365 (external link)
'Back in the old days', most professionals offered prints at a per-each price initially, and for some period of time following the shoot. For a lot of professionals who got tired of endlessly storing film with the overhead that might entail over decades of jobs, a number of pros might contact former clients and offer to sell the film at some fee after 5 or 10 years (or whenever they felt that revenue from more prints was no longer likely).

Fast forward to the digital photographers...many clients (particularly weddings) pay the photographer to cover the event, perhaps deliver a pre-negotiated album with prints, but then also expect the photographer to deliver digital files to them at the same time, with the final album (or sooner!). This reduces to follow-on revenue that film photographers might depend on to supplement current shoots. It is not unlike the common idea behind digital music...'why should I pay for more copies?" which has eroded musician earnings.

Sad. One of several reasons I would not want to be a working photographer/musician making recordings in these times.

My two sons got married these past couple years and they both got full Rez raws from the wedding photographer.

Times have changed. Instead of making money from print sales, wedding photographers now offer a service to document the wedding day and give the raws as a result. They still get their money, rather than from print sales, they get it for the service ( photographing the event ).

Rather than it being a product based business, it’s a service based business.




  
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TeamSpeed
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May 18, 2018 05:07 |  #50

Some events I shoot are more of an hourly rate, and the customer gets everything I shoot that I consider to be acceptable. I approach this like I do with software consultation, somebody wants to rent my gear and experience per hour. It saves me the grief of having print or file prices.


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duckster
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May 18, 2018 09:01 |  #51

It would seem like a transition to an hourly rate would make some sense, it would cover both shooting and PP.




  
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Wilt
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Post edited 3 months ago by Wilt.
     
May 19, 2018 18:52 |  #52

Hogloff wrote in post #18627408 (external link)
My two sons got married these past couple years and they both got full Rez raws from the wedding photographer.

Times have changed. Instead of making money from print sales, wedding photographers now offer a service to document the wedding day and give the raws as a result. They still get their money, rather than from print sales, they get it for the service ( photographing the event ).

Rather than it being a product based business, it’s a service based business.


TeamSpeed wrote in post #18627738 (external link)
Some events I shoot are more of an hourly rate, and the customer gets everything I shoot that I consider to be acceptable. I approach this like I do with software consultation, somebody wants to rent my gear and experience per hour. It saves me the grief of having print or file prices.


duckster wrote in post #18627818 (external link)
It would seem like a transition to an hourly rate would make some sense, it would cover both shooting and PP.

In the day when I shot weddings (or other events, or portraiture), my fees covered a good rate for film and processing and my time on the shoot, as well as overhead time of driving and prepping negs for the lab to print. AND THEN there was the mark-up which I earned as my 'commission' for all prints ordered, and albums ordered thru me. IOW I made made good money, and I was not expected to merely 'give away' my photos.

Yes, times have changed... for the worse because of changed attitudes of the clients, and too many photographers caving to the new expectations. And all the time photographers now have to spend in post processing their images on the computer, rather than merely sending negs to labs and getting great balanced prints back without much added effort.


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Hogloff
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May 19, 2018 21:08 |  #53

Wilt wrote in post #18628587 (external link)
In the day when I shot weddings (or other events, or portraiture), my fees covered a good rate for film and processing and my time on the shoot, as well as overhead time of driving and prepping negs for the lab to print. AND THEN there was the mark-up which I earned as my 'commission' for all prints ordered, and albums ordered thru me. IOW I made made good money, and I was not expected to merely 'give away' my photos.

Yes, times have changed... for the worse because of changed attitudes of the clients, and too many photographers caving to the new expectations. And all the time photographers now have to spend in post processing their images on the computer, rather than merely sending negs to labs and getting great balanced prints back without much added effort.

Well at the rates my kids paid for their wedding photographers, I'm thinking they are squeaking out a pretty good career. It's the business savvy pro's that cover those post processing hours in their rates and don't give those hours away. The good established photographers make a good living, the inflexible stuck in the 70's photographers are the one's struggling in this new age.

I've offered to make prints for my kids and neither of them has taken me up on the offer. They just don't have any interest in prints from their wedding day. They've each made a Facebook page which displays some of the images so that family and friends that could not make the wedding could still see some of the festivities from their day.

That's today's age...who wants prints...just give me the images so I can do whatever I want with them. Gone are the days of wedding albums and large framed prints...that's old history.




  
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Lyndön
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May 19, 2018 21:41 |  #54

I’ve always shot my kids soccer/softball games and I’ve put my images in web galleries for parents to download if they want or I’ve even given them CD’s if they ask nicely. I’ve never charged for action shots I was going to shoot anyway, but they have the option to buy a print if they want to. A few of those years (like this year) I’ve been asked to do team & individual photos for their teams because there was a conflict with the league photographer for one reason or another. For those, I do charge for the files/prints, but that’s different because they’ve asked me for a specific product that’s going to take a lot of extra effort, time, lighting gear, and editing work than just me showing up with my usual 7D2, 70-200 v II, & 300 2.8 IS and giving away unprocessed shots of random game action where I may or may not get a shot of their kid in the mix. Even then I try to keep my photos reasonably priced, meaning something that I’d pay myself.


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persistent mom, thats for sure
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