Battered and Bruised. A tale of some D's - 50/60/7D Comparison in 2018

7D here, also

Add my vote. One more for the 7D. The single advantage that the 60D might have for some is the articulated LCD screen. So unless that is an absolute requirement, the 7D is the best choice of those three specific bodies.

Thanks for all the +1 on the 7D. I never did become a huge fan of the articulated arm. That seemed to be a consumer camera thing, and while I presume it was added to the later XXD and XD models for better video monitoring, but other than to keep it protected when not using it, can't see much of a must-have reason for it.

And I did also look for the 1D3 after reading a couple of comments, but the search for such a camera without sizeable battle damage and low shutter count puts it not only in the nigh "Holy Grail" category (almost up there with Neil Armstrong's Apollo 11's Hassie :P ), but also the prices for what I did find were beyond my reach. I like the idea of $400 for a camera like the 7D, that while not cutting edge technology by 2018 standards, will be a great "Welcome back to Photography" camera, a good companion for adventures as I resync myself with my aperture eye and shutter finger.

I'm actively looking for a 7D, and might have found a great prospect via POTN (fingers crossed). have also been checking out POTN threads (love the EXIF feature for image posting!.. which makes me realize how old I am in real life and also in this forums history) and see how many people are still shooting with 7D. That's a good testament to the camera.

Grateful for everyone's positive attitude and the usual friendly tone of this site.

Don't stress shutter counts so much. If it's under 50k, it's got years of life left in it.

These are not my threads, but here's what a quick search revealed in the Buy/Sell classifieds:

7D:

https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1495742
(Split the camera and the lens, ask to just get the camera): https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1494129
https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1493086

1D3:

https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1494310 <--- $450 good to go as of today
https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1466758
https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1494395

Just to give you an idea.

You can also post a wanted ad, and just say you're looking for a 7D or 1D3 with your price set, and see what comes up.

Very best,

Very happy to report I've pulled the trigger on a well cared for Canon 7D with just under 10k clicks, with a 28mm 1.8 lens (Thanks largely to a POTN member, you know who you are).

Can't wait to get my hands on it, the old traps for the brown truck are now back down from the attic and charging.

I think this will be a great combo of camera/lens to get back into taking photos, and with time and opportunities I am sure other gear will arrive.

Thank you everyone for helping me make this decision.

PhotoJourno wrote in post #18633335
Very happy to report I've pulled the trigger on a well cared for Canon 7D with just under 10k clicks, with a 28mm 1.8 lens (Thanks largely to a POTN member, you know who you are).

Can't wait to get my hands on it, the old traps for the brown truck are now back down from the attic and charging.

I think this will be a great combo of camera/lens to get back into taking photos, and with time and opportunities I am sure other gear will arrive.

Thank you everyone for helping me make this decision.

Great. Enjoy your new acquisition.

Of the three, the 7D has the best AF system (19-point, five AF patterns) and overall build quality, feature set, high ISO image quality. I agree that you may have trouble finding one that's got "low mileage". Until the Mark II, the 7D was the most pro-oriented APS-C Canon has produced and it's a fast shooting camera, so a lot of them got hard use. I know my two 7Ds did! In a little over 5 years use, they each have roughly 150,000 clicks on shutter rated to last 150,000 clicks (but both are still going strong and serving as backups for my two Mark IIs, though the old 7Ds rarely see any use anymore.) High frame rates and the camera's strength for fast-action photography both are likely to lead to higher click counts with many users... so you may struggle to find copies with low actuations.

60D is actually slightly newer model. It uses a slight improved (sharper) version of the same 18MP sensor as the 7D. It's AF system is more closely related to the 50D's, but lacks the Micro Focus Adjustment feature that the 50D has (and the 7D has in a newer, improved version). I haven't seen an official claim, but would expect the 60D to be rated for 100,000 clicks (like other xxD models have typically been). Controls and materials are a bit different, too.... 60D introduced a new user interface layout, doing away with the "joystick" for AF point selection that's found on the 7D and 50D, for example. Instead there's a multi-directional control pad. The 60D also is more "plasticky", though I have to note that's not necessarily a bad thing. It can reduce weight and still be tough, maybe better than metal in some respects. There haven't been complaints about durability with 60D and later models in the line that use similar materials and construction.

60D uses SD memory cards, while 50D and 7D use Compact Flash. I prefer the larger cards for handling, but the contacts of the smaller SD cards are less prone to accidental damage than the pins and sockets of the CF cards.

50D uses older type BP511A batteries (NiCad?)... which are widely available in cheap third party clones that work just fine! The 60D and 7D both use newer LP-E6/E6N (lithium?) which cost a lot more, but also provide more info about battery condition and don't seem to ever develop "memory" issues.

I mentioned AF systems in passing above... some more detail. First, all points in all three cameras are the higher performance "cross type". All three also have an enhanced center point, when f/2.8 and faster lenses are used. All three are also "f/5.6 limited", which means that AF is only able to work with lens/teleconverter combinations that are effective f/5.6 or faster (such as a 1.4X on an f/4 lens or a 2X on an f/3.8 lens... some newer models can focus effective f/8 combos, such as a 2X on an f/4 lens). And all three have approx. the same low light focusing capability, down to about -1 EV. (Some newer models can focus to -3 EV.)

The 7D uses a separate chip to run the AF system, much like the 1D-series cameras do. This is in addition to dual processors handling the images, to allow for up to 8 frames per second continuous shooting speed. The separate chip driving the AF is one thing that allows the camera to have particularly high performance AF... fast acquisition and reliable tracking of moving subjects. It also allows the camera to have a more sophisticated AF system.

For example, the 7D's 19-point AF system allows user to choose among five different "focus patterns": All Points (auto selection), Single Point (manual selection), Zone Focus (a scaled down version of All Points), Expansion Points (select a single point, but allow the two above and below, and two right and left points to take over focus if needed) and Spot Focus (single point using a smaller than usual point, for greater precision, though it's slightly slower). There also are other user-adjustable "tweaks" available with the 7D's AF system.

Both 50D and 60D have a simpler 9-point AF system and all operations are done through a single processor, which is also handling images and other things. These cameras have two focusing patterns - All Points/Auto and Single Point/Manual. While a lot simpler, it's also very capable. I used three 50Ds for sports photography with very good success. While their AF system is quite good, the 7D's is superb. Focus screens are "old school" etched or engraved markings type in 50D and 60D, which are interchangeable with a few other specialty types. 7D was the first Canon to use their "active transmissve LCD" focus screen, which is not interchangeable but re-configures itself depending upon the focus pattern selected and has features such as "grid on demand". Something a lot of folks new to 7D found a bit difficult was that there's no "red flash" of active AF points or indicating focus achieved. You have to learn to trust yourself and the camera instead! But this freaked out a lot of folks coming from older models that had those focusing features.

Another difference I noticed coming from 50D to 7D was that the newer camera uses a stronger anti-alias filter, so images seemed a little soft until I learned to apply more sharpening in post-production. Compared to my images from 15MP 50D, with the 18MP 7D I tended to use around 80% stronger sharpening. The detail was there, but it needed more sharpening to bring it out. I haven't used 60D a lot, but seemed to me that Canon used a less strong AA filter on it, so it's images don't need as strong sharpening, even though 60D sensor seems the same as 7D's.

Canon also published a white paper about the time the 7D was introduced with it's 18MP sensor, that suggested the higher density sensors like it uses were a bit more sensitive to camera shake. They recommended using slightly higher shutter speeds, but that's no problem since it has higher usable ISO. I've made a practice of using ISO 200 at a minimum, both with 7D and with other models since. I use a lot of image stabilized lenses, which probably help, too.

Canon has offered very nice vertical/battery grips for all three models. The 50D's is the BG-E2N carried over from the 40D and even backward compatible for use on 30D and 20D (in fact the "N" is nearly identical to the BG-E2 originally sold with those cameras). This grip doesn't have the "AF-On" button found on the back of the camera and on most newer grips produced for other models. The 7D uses BG-E7 and the 60D uses BG-E9 grip. Personally I've only used OEM grips and have avoided third party because it's pretty common to hear of various "issues" from folks using them.

An "issue" that sometimes occurs with 50D and earlier xxD models is their shutter buttons getting "gummed up" with finger oils, dust, etc. What happens when this occurs is that a shutter delay gradually develops and worsens over time. If not addressed, at some point the shutter may eventually not release at all. All that's needed is cleaning and re-lubrication of the shutter release switch. 7D uses a shutter release mechanism similar to 1D series which seems better sealed. I have no idea if this occurs with 60D.... And I have to say that I never had this problem occur with any of my 50D, 30D or 10D models, some of which saw a LOT of use in dusty environments.

Something I have seen on several models (one of my 7D for sure, don't recall which of the others) was a "stuck micro-switch" in the flash hot shoe. This is a tiny switch under one of the springs that can get stuck in the "down" position, which causes the camera to think there's a flash mounted in the hot shoe. That only matters if you try to use the built in flash... on purpose or accidentally. I virtually never use the wimpy built in flashes... but I do occasionally bump the button that's supposed to cause it to pop up. When I do that and the micro-switch is stuck, the camera gives an error message warning. It takes about 2 seconds with a toothpick solves this minor problem.

60D has an articulated LCD screen, while both the 50D's and 7D's is fixed. None of them have "Touch Screens" (like some newer cameras do). All of them use slower "contrast detection" focusing in Live View (newer models implemented Canon's Dual Pixel AF in Live View, which is much faster).

Have fun shopping! All three models can serve well... just pick the one that fits your needs best.

PhotoJourno wrote in post #18633335
Very happy to report I've pulled the trigger on a well cared for Canon 7D with just under 10k clicks, with a 28mm 1.8 lens (Thanks largely to a POTN member, you know who you are).

Can't wait to get my hands on it, the old traps for the brown truck are now back down from the attic and charging.

I think this will be a great combo of camera/lens to get back into taking photos, and with time and opportunities I am sure other gear will arrive.

Thank you everyone for helping me make this decision.

I just remembered the 7D had a major firmware upgrade that added functionality to keep that aging camera competitive a bit longer. The current version is 2.0.6 from 11/29/16. Here's a link to obtain it. If you get confused over the update procedure we can assist.

https://www.usa.canon.​com …subtab=download​s-firmware

PhotoJourno wrote in post #18633335
Very happy to report I've pulled the trigger on a well cared for Canon 7D with just under 10k clicks, with a 28mm 1.8 lens (Thanks largely to a POTN member, you know who you are).

Enjoy, and use it in good health.

Here it is, in unbelievable shape, as if it had been set aside in a time capsule. Heading to the store in the morning to get a cf card, couple of like knick-knacks, and man oh man, can't get this silly grin off my face.

(Allow me one more)...

PhotoJourno wrote in post #18636204
(Allow me one more)...

Hosted photo: posted by PhotoJourno in
./showthread.php?p=186​36204&i=i36366221
forum: Canon Digital Cameras

Sweet! Enjoy. Did you see my post about updating the firmware to version 2.06 if the original owner had not already done so?

Apologies for not responding earlier, Mark. Yes!.. Actually your post made me look for update info, and even though its previous owner was kind enough to update it to the latest (2.05 to 2.06), I was able to find a PDF version of the manual that includes information of improvements and fixes made after the 2.0 firmware update.

This has been a great collective effort, and of course, I wouldn't expect any less of POTN. Hopefully I will be able to contribute my way back as well.

Cheers

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Congrats on getting back into photography.

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PhotoJourno wrote in post #18631137
. . . think low shutter count and good shape . . .

The newer the better . . .

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What does "Battered and Brusied" have to do with this thread?

Based on the quoted content from your original post, it seems like you are looking for the opposite of battered and bruised.

Also, you never mention anything about battered cameras in your original post.

So if you don't have any tales to tell about beat up cameras, and if you are not looking for a beat up camera, that leaves me wondering what the thread title has to do with the actual content of the thread.


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Fair point, Tom.