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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Performing Arts Talk 
Thread started 25 May 2018 (Friday) 12:18
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Another No-Credit Project I should probably quit immediately

 
EOS-Mike
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May 25, 2018 12:18 |  #1

Worked out with producers. Thank you for all advice.


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May 25, 2018 12:44 |  #2

I tend to agree with your wife, instead of assuming that they would know that you want a credit when they use your images. If you inform them & they still don't do it, then that's a different thing.
Alternatively, you could put a copyright on them before you upload, as in © 2018 Your name & see how that goes.


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May 25, 2018 12:46 |  #3

I am of the same feeling. We're adults, aren't we? Unfortunately, in this time of "I, me, and myself alone" we do have to teach them.

I'd walk away. I'm also of the feeling that the labourer deserves his wages, and it doesn't matter a whit if he labours out of necessity or fun or the kindness of his heart—he still deserves compensation. For the most part, I prefer my compensation in coin, not prestige points.


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May 25, 2018 13:58 |  #4

EOS-Mike, I'm going to agree with your better half here, lol. You should say something. Unfortunately, we do need to keep asking for credits and copyright notices. Honestly, it probably never crossed their mind or whoever was sharing and posting your images probably wasn't told to. Rarely are these things deliberate, but if they are, then I agree you shouldn't waste another year with them! Still, they need a chance to hear you out and chances are, they will be more than happy to fix the situation.

Speaking of happiness, if you like, I'm more than happy to contact them on your behalf, without any obligation to me whatsoever, to ask that they kindly add your credit on their Facebook page and other promotions.. it's only fair that they do so! I've done this for people before and believe me, I rarely take no for an answer!


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EOS-Mike
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May 25, 2018 14:40 as a reply to  @ jainlemos's post |  #5

Thanks. I'll probably follow that advice. I'll tell them.


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EOS-Mike
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May 25, 2018 23:34 |  #6

Follow up: I took my wife’s (and others’ advice) and mentioned to the director and producer/script writer about credit. One read the message (confirmed) and didn’t reply. The other said she’d give credit but didn’t.

So I wrote them this short note. And with that, I’m out.

“Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. I really enjoyed meeting all of you.

I'm going to have to leave this production, however, for personal reasons.

Feel free to keep and use the photos I took last weekend.

Good luck with filming. It looks like a great show.”


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john ­ crossley
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May 26, 2018 00:57 |  #7

EOS-Mike wrote in post #18632482 (external link)
I'm a middle school teacher. Good job, good pay, etc. I shoot photos for fun and do portraits for extra cash (seniors, casual weddings, families, etc.).

I've been shooting for decades and semi-professionally for about eight years.

A few years ago a group of local actors and writers asked me to join their project as a unit stills photographer (something I had always wanted to try). It's a lot of fun to shoot the action stealthily while they film. I didn't do it for pay and this was known up front.

I work very hard on composition and processing. It took hours for my first batch. Then, when the people in charge (you could call them producers, but we were all amateur) began posting my photos on Facebook and other social media, they didn't give me credit of list me as part of the crew. Everyone else was debuted, so-to-speak on social media (actors, director, writers, etc.), but not me. I eventually had to start responding to the posts and the whole thing became disheartening. They eventually got it and began to give me credit, but it was frustrating. They seemed to imply that I was "paying my dues" or whatever. To make things worse, they flaked on editing the episodes and they never published the series.

Fast forward about three years:

A different local group asked me to join them about two months ago. This group is much more organized and is made of people who are very low-level professionals in the film and TV industry here (Atlanta area) and are doing their own independent short film. They're doing everything right in terms of making the production schedule work smoothly.

Last weekend they asked me to attend the first table reading with the actors. I sat for one reading of the script, taking photos before and after the first reading. Then, during the second reading I took photos while they did their lines and a little bit of acting. Once we finished the readings and had a casual dinner together at the director's house, I took some more formal portraits, headshots, and a few promotional photos. Again, I worked hard on all this and spent many hours processing.

Wouldn't you know it: A couple days later they ask for the photos and I send them full-res pics sorted and processed. Pics looked good.

Now the lead writer and others are posting these photos all over social media to promote the project. They never gave me any photo credit and I haven't been listed on the show's facebook page as a member of the crew.

My wife said, "You should say something."

But I'm of the feeling that I shouldn't have to teach people how to know better. They all claim to know what they are doing, but clearly they don't know everything.

Now I'm a bit bitter and feel that I would be happier just leaving on friendly terms (I'll just make up some excuse) rather than explain to them their screw-up.

In other words, I've lost confidence in this group right off the bat and am not sure that trust can be regained. I don't want to waste another year with a team that isn't serious about seeing the project through to the end.


Am I being reasonable? Just wanting some advice. Thanks.

Considering that you call yourself semi-proffesional, why didn't you discuss the terms of usage when you first agreed to do the shoot.
I think you are the one that screwed-up, not them.


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May 26, 2018 01:20 |  #8

this matter is settled for now. Going forward however, I'd make it a thing from day 1. I like the copyright idea, but even then, those can be cropped out if they really want to make a problem, so telling them before you take any pictures seems to be the best way to handle it. You need something, they aren't going to know/care/think about what you need on their own.




  
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May 26, 2018 08:16 |  #9

goalerjones wrote in post #18632863 (external link)
this matter is settled for now. Going forward however, I'd make it a thing from day 1. I like the copyright idea, but even then, those can be cropped out if they really want to make a problem, so telling them before you take any pictures seems to be the best way to handle it. You need something, they aren't going to know/care/think about what you need on their own.

Removing © can be worth a lot of $s, so you have more leverage than you might think. Look at Carolyn E Wright's blog. (external link)


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May 26, 2018 08:27 |  #10

john crossley wrote in post #18632860 (external link)
Considering that you call yourself semi-proffesional, why didn't you discuss the terms of usage when you first agreed to do the shoot.
I think you are the one that screwed-up, not them.

Yup.

I'll go further and say the people that straddle the line between hobby and pro have the ability to do lasting harm to the industry if they aren't careful. For an ongoing gig like this everything should have been well documented. Lack of documentation means a lack of accountability.


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EOS-Mike
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May 26, 2018 12:07 |  #11

Some good points. But again, this is an amateur project. Nobody was getting paid. It's a bunch of creative types making a short film. Nobody was writing up any contracts or anything like that.

It's no big deal now. I sent them a friendly note that I would not be on the project anymore and they responded in a friendly way. We're good.

I had a feeling I wasn't a good fit for the project anyway. Just a vibe. They are significantly younger than I am and there was a lot they don't understand about unit still photography and how it works. They possibly overstated their credentials and IMDB stats, etc. No big deal. I get it. They are hoping to make a name. I just enjoy being part of creative projects. I'll find something else to work on this summer.

Thanks for the input. Everyone had some great suggestions.

Mike


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May 27, 2018 09:41 |  #12

I would've left, as well, but I would've made sure they knew exactly why I was leaving.

I won't be taken advantage of...


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May 27, 2018 18:49 |  #13

This is a great topic and thanks for sharing. Several people have contributed some good insight and suggestions.

Even if you consider yourself to be a semi-professional, I recommend you approach each shoot as a business would. From the very beginning, discuss the project scope, compensation, and usage with the client. If the project looks interesting and of mutual benefit and you're willing to do it for free, let the person know that you will shoot x days/hours/projects, you're willing to donate your time for free, and that they can use the photos for X, as long as you are properly credited (and tell them how you need to be credited specifically).

In your situation, you could, for example, let them use the photos for promotional use on their website and posters (with credit on each), then sell the individual photos of the actors on your website with a markup to help compensate you for your time. Discuss this as well during the initial meeting. There are likely several ways for you to earn an income on the volunteer gigs.

This also establishes you as a professional who may be available for hire on other projects in the future. Even as a semi-professional/volunteer​, you have expenses to cover and it's only fair that you are compensated. If you're doing good work, there's no doubt people will start asking to hire you for other (paid) gigs.


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EOS-Mike
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May 27, 2018 19:02 as a reply to  @ PhotosGuy's post |  #14

I'll be doing this going forward. Thank you for that link. It was very informative and helpful.


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EOS-Mike
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May 27, 2018 19:07 as a reply to  @ diveguy's post |  #15

That was really good advice.

Thank you


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Another No-Credit Project I should probably quit immediately
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