Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands 
Thread started 16 Jul 2018 (Monday) 15:24
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Does it make sense to switch from Canon 5d Mk IV to Sony A7RIII while keeping Canon lenses?

 
lukasgunar
Senior Member
Avatar
298 posts
Gallery: 2 photos
Likes: 6
Joined Mar 2007
Location: SLOVAKIA
Post edited 4 months ago by lukasgunar.
     
Jul 16, 2018 15:24 |  #1

Hello fellow photographers.
I have been long long time Canon shooter. Started about 14 years back with Canon 30D, then switched to 5D MkI, later MkII and when I was extremely pissed off of focussing issues on my MkII I hoped that MkIV and their spot focus will finally bring the happiness to my photography journey.

Unfortunately I constantly miss focus on the most important images to me which are the pictures of my family. We have 11 month old princess who is constantly moving so getting sharp eye with blurred background is hard task even for Canon's claimed second best camera.
Now my question, either it is me who does not know how to operate the camera or really Sony's eye tracking feature is something that would solve my problems for good. However to add to the complexity of my question, is Sony A7RIII going to cope better with above described scenario even when coupled with my Canon lenses with Metabones adapter?
There are many great videos on youtube but I haven't been able to find such a comparison.

Thank you for sharing your invaluable opinions!

lukas



Canon EOS 5D MkIV, Canon EOS 30D

Canon 16-35 f/4L IS, Canon 17-40 f/4L, Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM, Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II, Canon EF 50mm f/1.4, Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM, Canon Speedlite 580EXII

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
That's my line!
Avatar
9,008 posts
Gallery: 11 photos
Likes: 1941
Joined Jun 2011
Location: The Uwharrie Mts, NC
Post edited 4 months ago by Left Handed Brisket.
     
Jul 16, 2018 16:26 |  #2

I'm inclined to say that user error is some part of what you are experiencing. I am also inclined to say that the Sony eye focus would make it easier for you, but reports here say don't judge Sony focusing with adapted Canon lenses ... you have to buy native glass.

You have 2 fast primes, is that what you usually use for kid pics? Are you shooting wide open? What shutter speed? Maybe post an example, and all that other stuff?

:D


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
lukasgunar
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
Avatar
298 posts
Gallery: 2 photos
Likes: 6
Joined Mar 2007
Location: SLOVAKIA
Post edited 4 months ago by lukasgunar.
     
Jul 16, 2018 17:11 |  #3

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18664105 (external link)
I'm inclined to say that user error is some part of what you are experiencing. I am also inclined to say that the Sony eye focus would make it easier for you, but reports here say don't judge Sony focusing with adapted Canon lenses ... you have to buy native glass.

You have 2 fast primes, is that what you usually use for kid pics? Are you shooting wide open? What shutter speed? Maybe post an example, and all that other stuff?

:D

Thank you mate for taking the time to respond.
I either use my Canon 50 f/1.4 lens or 24-70 f/2.8L or 70-200 f/2.8L

These are 100% crops taken as screenshots directly from Lr to show my settings.
I know you can argue that on the second one I used smaller aperture but stopping down f/1.4 lens to f/2.2 should provide much sharper results. Plus I will upload one more picture shot at f/4.5 where sharpness is lacking too. So in other words what I am after when shooting portraits is at least the sharpness of the eyes as on the second picture. My hit rate is lower than 50% and I am sure we all will agree that 1/200 of a second for almost stationary subject as it was here must be more than sufficient enough.


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.



HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.



Canon EOS 5D MkIV, Canon EOS 30D

Canon 16-35 f/4L IS, Canon 17-40 f/4L, Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM, Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II, Canon EF 50mm f/1.4, Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM, Canon Speedlite 580EXII

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
lukasgunar
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
Avatar
298 posts
Gallery: 2 photos
Likes: 6
Joined Mar 2007
Location: SLOVAKIA
Post edited 4 months ago by lukasgunar.
     
Jul 16, 2018 17:15 |  #4

here is promised third picture shot at f/4.5 where again sharpness is missing.
Again, I would expect from such a camera as 5d mkIV is that with spot focusing (and I have already tried all focusing modes) the success rate will be much higher.
Also this is not down to this one lens. These are just very random samples I found immediately when you asked for samples. I can say that I am getting consistently not so sharp eyes :).
Again, I would love to hear that the main problem is in me and understand how should I improve and keep my high-end camera along with all my great lenses for another decade or so.

Thank you!


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.



Canon EOS 5D MkIV, Canon EOS 30D

Canon 16-35 f/4L IS, Canon 17-40 f/4L, Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM, Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II, Canon EF 50mm f/1.4, Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM, Canon Speedlite 580EXII

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Charlie
Guess What! I'm Pregnant!
15,173 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 5243
Joined Sep 2007
     
Jul 16, 2018 18:06 |  #5

do you have shaky hands? that's part of the problem when shooting a fairly high megapixel camera + no stabilization.

if you've got sloppy form, the problems will show up much faster.

this is amplified with the A7R3 when you turn off IBIS, however turning it on, should help you a bundle. Eye AF is stupid simple as well, but you do lose some features when adapting.

you're thinking 2 steps ahead, when you can only do 1. Add the body and see how you feel about adapting. It's just one of those things that you need experience. Those semi slow shots of your baby will get locked on the eyeball with the eye AF, and you'll get very high keeper rates. IBIS will help with shaky hands. Silent shutter will help against vibrations from the shutter, leaving you with much more detailed photos.


Sony A7rii/A7riii/A9 - FE 12-24/4 - FE 24-240 - CV 21/3.5 - FE 35/2.8 - SY 35/1.4 AF - FE 50/1.8 - FE 85/1.8 - EF 135/1.8 Art - F 600/5.6 - CZ 100-300 - Astro Rok 14/2.8 - Tamron 28-75/2.8 RXD, 70-200/2.8 VC

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gjl711
According to the lazy TF, My flatulence rates
Avatar
54,524 posts
Likes: 1872
Joined Aug 2006
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
     
Jul 16, 2018 18:38 |  #6

I don't think your going to see shaky hands at 1/200 at 50mm. I'm wondering if the 50mm is front focusing a bit but before looking at another camera, maybe a tightly controlled test with the setup. Tripod mount the camera and shoot something like a focus chart. Take a few samples, one using LV and manually focus while zoomed in 10x, one using LV focus, one using PD focus and compare the results.


Not sure why, but call me JJ.
I used to hate math but then I realised decimals have a point.
.
::Flickr:: (external link)
::Gear::

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Charlie
Guess What! I'm Pregnant!
15,173 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 5243
Joined Sep 2007
     
Jul 16, 2018 18:53 |  #7

gjl711 wrote in post #18664164 (external link)
I don't think your going to see shaky hands at 1/200 at 50mm. I'm wondering if the 50mm is front focusing a bit but before looking at another camera, maybe a tightly controlled test with the setup. Tripod mount the camera and shoot something like a focus chart. Take a few samples, one using LV and manually focus while zoomed in 10x, one using LV focus, one using PD focus and compare the results.

the last shot definitely looks like camera shake, and it's 1/125. First one @ 1/200 looks to be OOF.


Sony A7rii/A7riii/A9 - FE 12-24/4 - FE 24-240 - CV 21/3.5 - FE 35/2.8 - SY 35/1.4 AF - FE 50/1.8 - FE 85/1.8 - EF 135/1.8 Art - F 600/5.6 - CZ 100-300 - Astro Rok 14/2.8 - Tamron 28-75/2.8 RXD, 70-200/2.8 VC

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
FTb
Senior Member
534 posts
Gallery: 95 photos
Likes: 2981
Joined Jun 2014
     
Jul 16, 2018 20:04 as a reply to  @ Charlie's post |  #8

Best to identify the cause of the unsharpness first.

In your first photo it seems she was moving her head when the photo was taken. That's not a static facial expression. So, I'd suspect subject movement as the cause. Not camera related.

Third shot seems slightly front focused -- on the eyebrows. Easy to do when that close with any system. Just takes very minor movement from subject or photographer, particularly if not in servo mode. Could be operator error or camera error. Hard to tell without testing.

If it were me, before changing systems I'd check out my present system on a dummy head with the camera tripod mounted. That should eliminate a bunch of possible causes such as subject movement and camera/lens maladjustment. You should be able to nail focus on any selected eye almost every time.

Or add flash to your system just for testing purposes. It will help freeze action. If you get more keepers just by adding flash, it would indicate camera and/or subject movement were a factor in your previous failed shots.

I find the Mk IV to be incredibly accurate, but nothing is gonna help if your main issue is subject or camera movement.

Good luck!



My flickr (external link)
Favorite lenses: Canon 16-35 f/4 L IS, 50/1.2L, 85/1.2L II, 135/2L, 70-200L IS II, TS-E 17mm f/4L

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
That's my line!
Avatar
9,008 posts
Gallery: 11 photos
Likes: 1941
Joined Jun 2011
Location: The Uwharrie Mts, NC
     
Jul 16, 2018 20:05 |  #9

It's hard to take pics of your own kids. Maybe the hardest shot ever. Camera shake and even mommy shake might have done it.

As dad to two almost 10 year olds, I'd slap the 85 on there and let her do her thing. Sit and watch. Move around. And do not under expose the cutie.


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Snydremark
my very own Lightrules moment
18,323 posts
Gallery: 44 photos
Likes: 1368
Joined Mar 2009
Location: Issaquah, WA USA
     
Jul 16, 2018 20:27 |  #10

You may need to MFA the body to your lenses to one degree or another to get consistent focus if you're using AF to begin with. You mention these are crops from the originals; where was your active focus point when you made the shots?

Also, are you using a single af point, zone or auto af selection?
Remember that the af points you see in your viewfinder are representative of the af sensor locations, but not entirely accurate. Also, if you're using anything other than a single, user selected AF point, the camera can make some real boners for decisions...I highly recommend the user selected option.

Using focus/recompose or framing the shot as you intend?
Especially when shooting 2.8 and faster, very small shifts of the plane of focus can throw the final result right in the bin. Do your best to frame as you want the final outcome and get the active AF over the eye.

Have you tried taking AF off of the shutter release and mapping it to the AF-ON or * button on the rear of the camera? AKA Back Button Focus (BBF)/Back Button Autofocus (BBAF)
Especially in conjunction with the recompose question, removing AF from the shutter button makes it much less likely that you're going to snap the shot before you (or the camera) have achieved focus. Plus, you don't have focus resetting every time you go to snap the shutter; so, subsequent, repeat shots are much easier to accomplish.

Finally, go double-check your custom settings and make sure that your shutter priorities are dialed all the way to Focus and not toward Speed. I'm not holding my MkIV right now, so I can't tell you the exact function names...may have to scan through a few screens, but I know they're there.


- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (7D MkII/5D IV, Canon 10-22 f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
"The easiest way to improve your photos is to adjust the loose nut between the shutter release and the ground."

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
ksbal
Goldmember
Avatar
2,588 posts
Gallery: 331 photos
Best ofs: 9
Likes: 2026
Joined Sep 2010
Location: N.E. Kansas
Post edited 4 months ago by ksbal. (2 edits in all)
     
Jul 17, 2018 08:51 |  #11

lukasgunar wrote in post #18664134 (external link)
here is promised third picture shot at f/4.5 where again sharpness is missing.
Again, I would expect from such a camera as 5d mkIV is that with spot focusing (and I have already tried all focusing modes) the success rate will be much higher.
Also this is not down to this one lens. These are just very random samples I found immediately when you asked for samples. I can say that I am getting consistently not so sharp eyes :).
Again, I would love to hear that the main problem is in me and understand how should I improve and keep my high-end camera along with all my great lenses for another decade or so.

Thank you!
thumbnail
Hosted photo: posted by lukasgunar in
./showthread.php?p=186​64134&i=i157188193
forum: Changing Camera Brands


Ok, here I have a real world experience - its the lens. the 50mm 1.4 is a wonderful lens when it hits... but I always had to double tap mine... it is an old style build and not as accurate as the new lens/new body combos out there. Basically the electronics in the lens don't allow for as accurate a focus as the body is capable of. After I did some research I found that the lens was known for 'missing'.

Lens Rentals had a whole series they did on AF and what error amount you can expect, on average, and the upshot was that older bodies/older lens pairings had the biggest 'spread' for 'acceptably in focus'. I sold it and got a 50 1.8 stm. But your 5D4 will shoot the most accurate with the newer style lenses.

I'm sure there are other factors involved here, but I don't know that you will get the best bang for the buck trading systems just yet. Do some lens research or renting and see if you find a better fit for the 5D4.

JMHO. YMMV


Godox/Flashpoint r2 system, plus some canon stuff.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
John ­ from ­ PA
Cream of the Crop
8,353 posts
Likes: 580
Joined May 2003
Location: Southeast Pennsylvania
     
Jul 17, 2018 09:07 |  #12

Having worked for a professional photographer who specialized in child photography (film days) I can tell you it is an "art" in itself. It was long ago but two things I remember, and have practiced with my "grand" nieces, is don't attempt to get too close to the subject, unless there is really a need. Shoot from 5 to 8 feet back, perhaps with something like an 85mm, and then crop to the desired area. As an example, let's compare a 50mm and 85mm at two typical distances and same f/stop of 5.6.

85mm, f/5.6, 6 foot subject distance, DOF = 0.49 feet = 5.9 inches

50mm, f/5.6, 3 foot subject distance, DOF = 0.35 feet = 4.2 inches

The 2nd thing I remember is a "trick" the photographer used with kids around 4 to 6 months of ago, about the time they can sit up on their own and tend to grasp and hold on to something. Get the gear ready, and then give them a piece of scotch tape. They will, for about 30 seconds be puzzled by the stickiness of the tape, switching hand to hand with weird facial expressions, and then of course about 1 minute into the shoot, probably begin to cry.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
lukasgunar
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
Avatar
298 posts
Gallery: 2 photos
Likes: 6
Joined Mar 2007
Location: SLOVAKIA
     
Jul 17, 2018 09:46 |  #13

Thank you very much for all invaluable feedback so far guys!
I will try to answer all question and/or add additional info.

1. Shaky hands? I don't think so. I have tried different exposure times even super fast ones so I think I can say this is not the case.
2. Back-button focusing? Yes, I have been using SOLELY back-button focusing for years now.
3. Getting focus with one point and recomposing? Generally I don't do it as I know that specially for wide open lenses this causes misfocus. However I tried this option too and it did not bring satisfying results.
4. Single AF point, multiple points, zone? Yes I have tried all the options. I assumed that spot focus must be the best one in order to achieve nailed focus on the eye but as it did not bring desired results I have started to try all other options. I haven't really seen drastic improvement.
5. Custom settings - setting all the way to Focus rather than Speed --> I guess this is applicable to AI Servo AF/continuous focusing. Again I have tried both One Shot AF and AI Servo AF. I even assigned * button to AI Servo AF so instantly I am able to switch between One Shot AF when pressing just back-button focus and AI Servo AF when pressing * button along with back-button focus - again not happy with results
6. Lens-wise --> calibration is definitely something I will have to check yet. I have noticed that my Canon 50 f/1.4 is very sharp at around f5.6 or so but very soft when using lower number apertures. Though my misfocus is consistent against all my lenses. Even when coupled with Canon 70-200 f2.8L IS II lens

So I would assume it must be very likely me who is doing something wrong and possibly I would like to believe that Sony's eye tracking functionality is something that would solve all my struggles. I can tell you that there are times when I miss focus on 6-7 out of 10 pics in a row on the moments which I would love to keep forever but all I can do is to delete the picture and at that time I can't find any nice word about Canon. And I truly would like to enjoy the photography when I have one of the most sophisticated camera Canon has ever produced :(.



Canon EOS 5D MkIV, Canon EOS 30D

Canon 16-35 f/4L IS, Canon 17-40 f/4L, Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM, Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II, Canon EF 50mm f/1.4, Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM, Canon Speedlite 580EXII

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Snydremark
my very own Lightrules moment
18,323 posts
Gallery: 44 photos
Likes: 1368
Joined Mar 2009
Location: Issaquah, WA USA
     
Jul 17, 2018 10:06 |  #14

lukasgunar wrote in post #18664570 (external link)
Thank you very much for all invaluable feedback so far guys!
I will try to answer all question and/or add additional info.

1. Shaky hands? I don't think so. I have tried different exposure times even super fast ones so I think I can say this is not the case.
2. Back-button focusing? Yes, I have been using SOLELY back-button focusing for years now.
3. Getting focus with one point and recomposing? Generally I don't do it as I know that specially for wide open lenses this causes misfocus. However I tried this option too and it did not bring satisfying results.
4. Single AF point, multiple points, zone? Yes I have tried all the options. I assumed that spot focus must be the best one in order to achieve nailed focus on the eye but as it did not bring desired results I have started to try all other options. I haven't really seen drastic improvement.
5. Custom settings - setting all the way to Focus rather than Speed --> I guess this is applicable to AI Servo AF/continuous focusing. Again I have tried both One Shot AF and AI Servo AF. I even assigned * button to AI Servo AF so instantly I am able to switch between One Shot AF when pressing just back-button focus and AI Servo AF when pressing * button along with back-button focus - again not happy with results
6. Lens-wise --> calibration is definitely something I will have to check yet. I have noticed that my Canon 50 f/1.4 is very sharp at around f5.6 or so but very soft when using lower number apertures. Though my misfocus is consistent against all my lenses. Even when coupled with Canon 70-200 f2.8L IS II lens

So I would assume it must be very likely me who is doing something wrong and possibly I would like to believe that Sony's eye tracking functionality is something that would solve all my struggles. I can tell you that there are times when I miss focus on 6-7 out of 10 pics in a row on the moments which I would love to keep forever but all I can do is to delete the picture and at that time I can't find any nice word about Canon. And I truly would like to enjoy the photography when I have one of the most sophisticated camera Canon has ever produced :(.

One thing I didn't ask in my earlier post, but should have. Have you tried setting up on a tripod and manually focusing on a subject using the LCD and 10x mag to maximize your focus on the subject? That's probably the easiest way to narrow down gear or shooter. If you can consistently nail focus w/ that manual method then either your AF system needs some MFA with the lenses or your AF system is bugged and should be looked at by a tech.

It actually makes *more* sense in my mind, given #6, that the issue is a combination of your lenses/body not being adjusted together properly and need of practice on your part. Given you have a history of missed focus with a variety of gear with proven performance on a LARGE scale,
the human component is still probably your largest hurdle

In some down time, grab your gear and a static subject (water bottle, little one's toy, anything), set it up wherever you're likely to be shooting "for keeps" normally and shoot the bejezus out of it. Practice with that set up until you are getting consistent "good" results with a subject you don't care about and then you'll be better set up for when it counts.

Also, could you share the full frame of one or two of your sample shots instead of just the crops, so we can see the framing and indicate where your point of focus was in them? Seeing the actual framing you used and getting an idea of distance, etc could help give additional info/suggestions to help you back on track.


- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (7D MkII/5D IV, Canon 10-22 f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
"The easiest way to improve your photos is to adjust the loose nut between the shutter release and the ground."

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Charlie
Guess What! I'm Pregnant!
15,173 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 5243
Joined Sep 2007
     
Jul 17, 2018 11:08 |  #15

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18664211 (external link)
It's hard to take pics of your own kids. Maybe the hardest shot ever. Camera shake and even mommy shake might have done it.

As dad to two almost 10 year olds, I'd slap the 85 on there and let her do her thing. Sit and watch. Move around. And do not under expose the cutie.

1/125 *should get you 3/4 shots acceptable with these kinds of slight but slow movements.

post #4 is clearly shake issues, nothing in the frame is really sharp, but you can tell by the eyebrows and wrinkles that they are indeed in focus.

also, the 50 1.4 is a total dog of a lens. Borderline the worst 50 of any manufacturer (along with the nifty fifty 1.8ii).


Sony A7rii/A7riii/A9 - FE 12-24/4 - FE 24-240 - CV 21/3.5 - FE 35/2.8 - SY 35/1.4 AF - FE 50/1.8 - FE 85/1.8 - EF 135/1.8 Art - F 600/5.6 - CZ 100-300 - Astro Rok 14/2.8 - Tamron 28-75/2.8 RXD, 70-200/2.8 VC

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

2,840 views & 5 likes for this thread
Does it make sense to switch from Canon 5d Mk IV to Sony A7RIII while keeping Canon lenses?
FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is rgvnikon
723 guests, 311 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 6430, that happened on Dec 03, 2017

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.