Does mirrorless do anything for you?

The Japanese need a new denomination for their currency lol. 1,000 yen = 1kyen...


Anyway Sony, like Canon, is a large publicly traded company, and their first priority is shareholder value...so no they aren't going to hold onto a non-profitable business unit. I ran a dual Canon/Sony system for a while but decided to sell off the 5DIII shortly after Sony went through the major re-org that saw the Vaio business unit get shut down. That was around the time the NEX branding was killed off, mirrorless cameras were elevated to the 'alpha' branding, and the imaging products division was tagged as being strategically important business unit that they saw as a growth opportunity. The imaging products division has done quite well financially, so it seems my little bet on Sony paid off.

davesrose wrote in post #18700474
This got me to wondering what segments Sony has. Interestingly, seems like their largest growth recently is semiconductors. And this figure is in billions (IMO, $36.1 billion is a lot easier to read...even if it's glossing over the smaller percentage remaining 6 million)

Sony's revenue worldwide by segment fiscal years 2012 to 2017

Seems their weakest market now is mobile. Their imaging division has been slowly rebounding from production snags from the Kumamoto earthquakes.

Sony's business stabilizes with strong PS4 game sales

That semi-conductor business is the business unit that develops image sensors. So there's a strategic synergy between the semi-conductor business and the imaging products division. All of the sensor R&D is basically being financed by all the companies sourcing their mobile sensors....what eventually become FF sensor designs, start off as mobile format sensors.

mystik610 wrote in post #18700481
That semi-conductor business is the business unit that develops image sensors. So there's a strategic synergy between the semi-conductor business and the imaging products division. All of the sensor R&D is basically being financed by all the companies sourcing their mobile sensors....what eventually become FF sensor designs, start off as mobile format sensors.

True, CMOS sensors are part of their semiconductors, but it's not all. They make audio chips, GPS, processing boards, OLED micro displays, etc. So just like the rest of their divisions, they're not just segmented in one category. While more mobile image sensors are becoming popular and produced, FF will be units with higher production costs and reserved for more of a niche (IE pros and enthusiasts who value the difference in FF).

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18699820
I've been hoping for IBIS for almost 20 years!
I know Canon likely will never do it, which is too bad.

I guess if I want my 135L stabilized I have to buy a SONY and an adapter.

I got by with a mix of IS and non-IS Canon lenses for a long time. IS is a great feature. The EF 24-70/2.8 L II is one of the better lenses for compatability in being adapted to the Sony gen III Alpha cameras, and it is a treat to use this lens with IBIS.

Is it just me, or is one of the more head scratching points around the (still rumored) RF announcement that the camera appears to lack IBIS, and yet 2 of the 4 first RF lenses are not IS equipped?

JeffreyG wrote in post #18700490
I got by with a mix of IS and non-IS Canon lenses for a long time. IS is a great feature. The EF 24-70/2.8 L II is one of the better lenses for compatability in being adapted to the Sony gen III Alpha cameras, and it is a treat to use this lens with IBIS.

Is it just me, or is one of the more head scratching points around the (still rumored) RF announcement that the camera appears to lack IBIS, and yet 2 of the 4 first RF lenses are not IS equipped?

I thought the exact same. Seems like a glaring oversight to me if it’s really true. If no IBIS that’s ok if they at least make the lenses have IS to compete... even though I’ve found IBIS to be superior to lens IS in many situations. Surely IBIS would help get the most out of that new big 50 1.2 and the 28-70 3lb monster. I do think Canon will eventually cave and do an IBIS body... but how long will that take and how far ahead will the others be? I think it’s also been fairly well proven that an IBIS/lens-IS “sync” system currently has significant advantages in terms of stabilization vs lens IS alone. That seems to be the way most manufacturers are going. Just look at some of the shots taken with the Olympus EM1.2 and 12-100 f4 IS. Some have taken handheld shots that are sharp at up to 20 second exposures!

https://mirrorlesscomp​arison.com …ro/#Optical-Stabilisation

I just can’t understand how anyone can deny that 5-axis IBIS, either alone or in combo with lens IS, isn’t beneficial in general. Sure it may not be helpful if on a tripod, but I’d guess that most of us don’t shoot all of our images that way. Not to mention that lack of IBIS lessens the appeal of the camera for many vloggers who would choose this camera for the fully articulated screen vs Nikon/Sony. Now they’ll have to plop down even more money on a gimbal, whereas they could have probably gotten by with just a gorillpod to use as a handle if it had decent IBIS/Sync IS.

What I find interesting, especially with the success of Leica with their M 10 and MM, is that none of these companies would realize there is a market out there that wants to move away from all the stuff and automation. I know these wouldn't be cameras for the masses but wouldn't it be nice if you love shooting with a true FF rangefinder to have another option than Leica. A camera that has an M mount that can take Leica and Zeiss lenses. Maybe no automation at all. Just a great, tough, (as tough a digital will allow ha ha) reliable body. Something no one else but Leica is making instead of making another one size fits all auto everything body just like all the other cameras out there. Maybe a monochrome only camera? It wouldn't appeal to the masses and wouldn't be for everyone but there is a market for it and if you want one like what I described you are going to pay. The Leica MM is around 8K as is the M 10 P. When the announced the original MM there was over a 6 month waiting list and the M 10 was a year.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #18701704
What I find interesting, especially with the success of Leica with their M 10 and MM, is that none of these companies would realize there is a market out there that wants to move away from all the stuff and automation. I know these wouldn't be cameras for the masses but wouldn't it be nice if you love shooting with a true FF rangefinder to have another option than Leica. A camera that has an M mount that can take Leica and Zeiss lenses. Maybe no automation at all. Just a great, tough, (as tough a digital will allow ha ha) reliable body. Something no one else but Leica is making instead of making another one size fits all auto everything body just like all the other cameras out there. Maybe a monochrome only camera? It wouldn't appeal to the masses and wouldn't be for everyone but there is a market for it and if you want one like what I described you are going to pay. The Leica MM is around 8K as is the M 10 P. When the announced the original MM there was over a 6 month waiting list and the M 10 was a year.

There is a rumor of a Fuji MF rangefinder in the works, lower cost than leica!

unfortunately, it's only a rumor at this point, and very limited in photos or information.

The Fuji is a rangefinder style, not a true rangefinder focusing system but I'm looking forward to it.

PhaseOne make a monochrome sensor so it's not just Leica that does it.

Fuji released their X-T3 today, looks like a good solid update in AF particularly in the Video features with 10Bit 40K60 4:2:0 @ 400Mb/s internal and 4:2:2 10 Bit out. Improved eye AF and 100% PDAF coverage with -3 focus ability. Also USBC and finally the mic/headphone jack on the camera so no need for the battery grip & the price is less then last model. (Thanks Sony )

Two Hot Shoes wrote in post #18701750
The Fuji is a rangefinder style, not a true rangefinder focusing system but I'm looking forward to it.

PhaseOne make a monochrome sensor so it's not just Leica that does it.

Fuji released their X-T3 today, looks like a good solid update in AF particularly in the Video features with 10Bit 40K60 4:2:0 @ 400Mb/s internal and 4:2:2 10 Bit out. Improved eye AF and 100% PDAF coverage with -3 focus ability. Also USBC and finally the mic/headphone jack on the camera so no need for the battery grip & the price is less then last model. (Thanks Sony )

I figured due to the sorta big, not totally small fuji primes. I'm not interested in true rangefinder MF, would rather have AF with gridlines.

pretty substantial update on the X-T3. Sport mode is sort of interesting.

it's odd that they have those video features on the X-T3, but not X-H1, figured the X-H1 would have been more video centric. Solid upgrades + lower price is sorta shocking.

If this rumored Fuji is FF I would definitely give one a spin if it is a true rangefinder, no video, easy to use menu. I did try Fuji before I bought Leica but one of the major reasons I didn't buy one (there were others to) is it wasn't FF.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #18701836
If this rumored Fuji is FF I would definable give one a spin if it is a true rangefinder, no video, easy to use menu. I did try Fuji before I bought Leica but one of the major reasons I didn't buy one (there were others to) is it wasn't FF.

That rumoured Fuji is not FF, it's medium format. Smaller than the properly large full frame PhaseOne sensor 53.7x40.4mm (2169.48), but bigger than the Leica 36x24mm (864) sensor at 44x33mm (1441).

I wasn't expecting that video update at all considering the X-H1 but then again that camera is aimed at people working outside who need photo/video in one camera. Remember the thicker paint and more sealing stuff on that camera. Glad to see a company that is not afraid to add more up to date features that surpass a recent flagship and not cripple it because they want to upsell you.

Two Hot Shoes wrote in post #18701954
That rumoured Fuji is not FF, it's medium format. Smaller than the properly large full frame PhaseOne sensor 53.7x40.4mm (2169.48), but bigger than the Leica 36x24mm (864) sensor at 44x33mm (1441).

I wasn't expecting that video update at all considering the X-H1 but then again that camera is aimed at people working outside who need photo/video in one camera. Remember the thicker paint and more sealing stuff on that camera. Glad to see a company that is not afraid to add more up to date features that surpass a recent flagship and not cripple it because they want to upsell you.

And probably a much larger camera than an M 10 so not really interested.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #18701972
And probably a much larger camera than an M 10 so not really interested.

while the lenses will be larger ~500g and 90mm, the rumored body is supposedly small, possibly competing with Hassy X1D.

Supposedly a rangefinder looking like camera. Of course all speculation right now, but should know by end of month. Not saying I'm buying it, but for 3000-4000, I may start scheming

I've read that some of the Leica R glass is capable of creating full image circles, which would be fantastic.

Charlie wrote in post #18701995
while the lenses will be larger ~500g and 90mm, the rumored body is supposedly small, possibly competing with Hassy X1D.

Supposedly a rangefinder looking like camera. Of course all speculation right now, but should know by end of month. Not saying I'm buying it, but for 3000-4000, I may start scheming

I've read that some of the Leica R glass is capable of creating full image circles, which would be fantastic.

If it's the same size as the X1D then its bigger than Leica Ms

Well the sensor is also quite a bit bigger, and some people like a bigger, em, sensor in their body. Thats why they choose it. Some of us have a smaller one most of the time but when we need to, we pull out a big one to get the job done.

Two Hot Shoes wrote in post #18702089
Well the sensor is also quite a bit bigger, and some people like a bigger, em, sensor in their body. Thats why they choose it. Some of us have a smaller one most of the time but when we need to, we pull out a big one to get the job done.

Exquisite innuendo. Have a like.